has anyone experience with the products of Plastikote?
What you get beautiful colors
What brand do you use?
Printable View
has anyone experience with the products of Plastikote?
What you get beautiful colors
What brand do you use?
Wudtone... :P 8-)
My next Projekt i use wudtone.
The pics are great. Very cool Price
I'm going get in trouble for saying this, but I've used Anchor brand spray cans and had excellent results. Obviously using spray cans is never gonna be the best option, but Anchor use great nozzles and put out a really even spray and there is an awesome range of colours.
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content...osol_Spray.jpg
Pab's, that's just earned you ten minutes in the naughty corner!Quote:
Quote from pablopepper on May 27, 2013, 18:29
I'm going get in trouble for saying this, but I've used Anchor brand spray cans and had excellent results. Obviously using spray cans is never gonna be the best option, but Anchor use great nozzles and put out a really even spray and there is an awesome range of colours.
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content...osol_Spray.jpg
But we know you have seen the light and heard the tone subsequently, so sentence reduced in terms of lack of tone heard!
Nope!Quote:
Quote from Vintagefan64 on May 27, 2013, 17:08
has anyone experience with the products of Plastikote?
What you get beautiful colors
What brand do you use?
Spray-paint kills tone, i want my guitar to sound beautiful as well as look beautiful which is why I use Wudtone.
Pablo, the team will be around to start your re education tomorrow... :)
Pablo, don't mind the Guitar Finish Nazis, they mean well. There's room for a few options when finishing your guitar. If you think tone and a subtle, sophisticated finish is most important, go for the Wudtone. If you just want shiny, shiny, then go for some spray colour and clear lacquer. And we appreciate your recommendation... I've only used auto paint, so it's nice to hear there's other options.
WUDTONE IS THE BEST!!!!!
Ooooohhhhh.... I might have a poster that I can edit at school..... Just don't use spray cans, use Wudtone, even for your first project like I am!!!
i use a compressor and paint Nitro.(basis and clear)
But it is not easy to buy Nitro Laqueur in Germany.
It is very expensive. To paint a Guitar you can expect 50 euro.
this is only the laqueur. no sandpaper , polish and,and and
i know a guitarmaker he makes perfect finishes with cans.
for staining i use the clou products.but i try wudtone. i knew it not been
I haven't done a finish with spray paint, but I have heard good things about Behlen products, which are nitrocellulose based and can be bought here.
There is a lot of love for Wudtone here (I'm going to finish my ST-1 in Wudtone), but for certain looks, you need to spray.
I'd be really, really interested to hear a side by side comparison of the exact same kit, one with spray paint, one with Wudtone. No upgrades, no tweaks.
Adam, DB, do either of you have the guitars hanging on the wall do do such a thing?
Phloggy, this is a debate that has been going for decades...Quote:
Quote from phloggy on May 28, 2013, 07:42
I'd be really, really interested to hear a side by side comparison of the exact same kit
Walrus and phloggy, my ST-1 is finished in clear spray lacquer, and I'm pretty happy with both the look and the sound from stock components.
I know, but it seems like a pretty good opportunity to gather some evidence one way or another. I'm currently of the opinion that the finish of the guitar would have an almost insignificant impact on tone, at least compared to everything else that's going on in an electric guitar.Quote:
Quote from Walrus on May 28, 2013, 07:48
Phloggy, this is a debate that has been going for decades...Quote:
Quote from phloggy on May 28, 2013, 07:42
I'd be really, really interested to hear a side by side comparison of the exact same kit
I have no evidence to support this though, other than "gut feel", and the fact that guys like Eric Johnson, who can apparently tell the difference in the batteries that are in his effect pedals, use painted guitars. But perhaps the paint is a component of the tone he's looking for?
I'd love to be shown some actual evidence one way or the other, though.
My next project will probably be done in Wudtone, but that's because it looks great and is easier to apply than spraypaint rather than any tonal qualities that it may possess.
My Guitardis (a TL-1) is also finished with spraypaint and poly clear coat, then polished with a car wax that contains silicone. It's got a colourless Wudtone neck finish. I think it sounds better than any "proper" tele I've played in a shop.Quote:
Quote from dvous on May 28, 2013, 08:37
Walrus and phloggy, my ST-1 is finished in clear spray lacquer, and I'm pretty happy with both the look and the sound from stock components.
My 2c worth....
Put 14 plastic bags over your head and sing.....vs. wiping your face with some suitable oils and then sing and compare which sounds better!
I'm planning to use a combination of automotive spray paint (2 pack) & wudtone.
Carl
Paints, polyurethanes and nitro finishes are all solvent based.
When you apply them to timber they bond the fibres together and lock them, thus they cease to have the ability to resonate to their full extent.
It is actually the outer layers of the timber that give the instrument it's tonal quality, (this is most evident in acoustic instruments where the top is only 2-4 mm thick).
Contrary to popular thought, electric instruments do rely on the same outer layers of the timber to give them their tone. This is why us Luthiers are fanatical about the types of timber we use, we look for tap tone (rap the timber with a knuckle and listen for a clear bell like sound, if we hear a dull thud that piece of timber becomes fire wood!)
Treat this piece of timber with synthetic finishes and try the tap tone test again. You get a more solid thud rather than a ring.
I have tried this on identical chunks of tree (cut from the same board) and I could tell the difference when blind folded!
Before I discovered Wudtone I used to French Polish or wax finish all my builds because these finishes did not dull the tap tone.
Must admit restricting myself to two types of finish restricted me colour wise but now I can have tone and colour!
I am slowly making my way back through some of the earlier posts (by gods there’s a lot).
Please note: I will not be offended if you all skip straight over this extremely verbose piece of drivel.
Not wishing to stick my nose in, being a Newbie, but I have a fair amount of comparative data on this “issue”.
Since the late 80’s I have stripped and re-finished a fair number of instruments, both in light stains and natural finishes (clear coats only). Following a happy accident with a Vantage P-bass, which went from being a sonically ordinary instrument to having a nice, subtle, “woody” tone.
What I can tell you is this; on every occasion, taking into account projects that re-used the same hardware and electrics, the sound was always different. Not however always better; on one occasion a 70’s Suzuki LP copy became quite “dead”, losing any brightness it had while gloss black.
That having been said I have continued to strip back most of my own instruments, particularly basses, usually refinishing them with clear coats only. I have even done this when it means exposing ply edges or similarly unpleasant articles in the timber (I actually like the Frankenstein look).
One of my friends tried some experiments with finish comparisons, even going as far as using 3 identically shaped bodies that had the most similar harmonic resonance when raw. Certainly the harmonic resonance changed on the completed guitars, but the difference in sound (he said) was minute. Interestingly he is also from the shape-makes-no-difference camp – but that’s a whole ‘nother prickly one!
One thing I must say is that the electric I still use most is a Peavey Raptor (Stratocaster SSS alignment), which has a solid enamel finish. It sounds like every other good quality classic Strat type guitar, plain and recognizable – which is what fits with most modern music. Although my most used Acoustic, certainly more than the Raptor , is an 80’s (Bill May) Maton from the Natural series – which is next to raw and a brilliant sounding instrument.
In the mid 90’s I worked for a short while designing and building hi-end acoustic cabinets. It is an accepted engineering constant in that field that construction style, size and finish all heavily influence the result - so I can’t see how guitars should be any different.
Regarding spray cans; my experience is that a good painter, with excellent technique, will get a good result. Provided that a lot of care is taken between coats and you do not use really cheap paint then most people will get a reasonable outcome.
A good trick with spray cans is to warm them,run under hot water & shake. This gives a finer atomization making it easier to get a smooth finish.
Carl
Hmmmmmm.....ok!
I am an acoustic guitar builder as well as an electric guitar builder. Lets talk first about acoustic and their tone.
The key to getting great tone depends on getting the strings to resonate optimally with the material used in constructing the guitar.
If the resonance of the material the instrument is made of interferes with the resonance of the strings, then it is probable that some harmonics may be muted or added and this may lead to a loss of sustain, "wolf notes", "dead notes", etc.
If the resonance of the wood does not interfere with the resonance of the strings we will get utopia! Pure golden tone!
If the resonance peak of the instrument is too far from that of the strings, then we will have a material (wood) which does not meaningfully contribute to the overall instrument's tone.
It is thus traditional and a given that you have to choose wood for the body and the neck of the guitar which will resonate at a level synchronous to the strings vibrations. Maple necks, mahogany necks, rosewood or ebony fretboards, Sitka, adirondack or redwood soundboards, etc.
Our first goal is to achieve the most perfect string resonance and then to build a great tone around it.
Talking about the material, the principle which rules how it will influence the instrument's tone is as follows: the higher the mass, the less the material will absorb the string's vibration which will be almost entirely returned to the strings. This is why very light, less dense woods (they vibrate and resonate better) are used in acoustic soundboards, but the bridge will always be a denser wood like ebony or rosewood to match the fretboard.
When we are sure that the strings vibrate freely, then it's time to build up our tone taking advantage of the different woods tonal characteristics.
THE TONE
The physical properties of the wood we are more interested in and upon which we must focus are:
1) Stiffness (elasticity coefficient along the grain). This is more important for acoustic guitar soundboard construction,
2) Wood density (i.e. coefficient of propagation of sound inside wood),
3) Internal friction (attitude of a material to dampen the energy which we apply to wood here).
Commonly softer and less dense woods will produce more volume, less attack and less sustain while heavier and denser woods will produce more sustain and a sharper attack with lower volume.
Can we agree then that the material(wood) under the strings is extremely important in how the strings will ultimately vibrate?
Now, on to the next point...and here I will include the electric guitar scenario.
What pickups actually do is transform into sound the energy they receive from the strings. This is why the wood (and the finish) can make all the difference between an ordinary instrument and a superb one.
...and this brings us back to the point that DB was making, namely that "When you apply nitro and poly finishes to timber they bond the wood fibres together and lock them, thus they cease to have the ability to resonate to their full extent and this dampening effect simply has to come out in the tone.
No argument here. I don't think my blah contradicts this detail, but please let me know if you think it does?
Gav's remarks certainly line up with my fairly rudimentary knowledge around transfer of energy and lines-of-force basics as they relate to acoustics. I vaguely remember consonance and dissonance coming into all this somewhere too, but the memory is a hazy one.....
The last paragraph is the clincher, all the science aside. To me it means; if you want (or can accept) a dampened sound use a solid finish. However if you want to hear the timbers full potential go the Wudtone style treatment.
I'm certainly happy with the result on my latest Tele, which has a light stain and the very minimum of clear.
it is logical to prevent swinging the audio on the chemical products.
but we go back years. Leo Fender built the first board guitars. He took ash, not because it is a Great wood is so, but because it was time to buy cheap. It was not suitable for the construction of furniture. / Black hollows).
He took the varnish was then sprayed on cars. As a primer, everything was cheap. Today we talk about the great tone wood ash.
Much is told without specialist knowledge further. Although it is logically yes, a curable resist the softness of the wood. But Gibson and Fender guitars covering all painted earlier. At least with clear coat after the stain.
Today, people pay a lot of money for these guitars.
Much more important is the question: we hear people this difference? The guitar is set incorrectly it sounds different.
I could list a lot of things that change the sound of a guitar fundamentally
How should the consumer of music listening, whether the CD was recorded with a painted or unpainted guitar? What he hears because I can not change the studio. Heat? Brilliance? Attempts at a university in Germany have shown that to be taken from the ceiling with a guitar 90 percent of the sound
Best used Wudtone or stain the ceiling. Side and back can be painted
Hi Vintagefan64,Quote:
Quote from Vintagefan64 on June 1, 2013, 22:23
How should the consumer of music listening, whether the CD was recorded with a painted or unpainted guitar? What he hears because I can not change the studio. Heat? Brilliance? Attempts at a university in Germany have shown that to be taken from the ceiling with a guitar 90 percent of the sound
Best used Wudtone or stain the ceiling. Side and back can be painted
When you say ceiling, us Aussies will think you are talking about the roof of your house! I think you are referring to the soundboard of an acoustic guitar or the 'face' of an electric. Is this right?
fac e of electrik is right. or the TOP