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Hi All,
Finally got started on my first build yesterday, thought i'd throw some pics up to show off/keep me motivated. It's an SG with the flame cap, i'm painting it Wudtone Carmine Gypsy.
Headstock:
I wanted the headstock to be a bit different to the usual Gibson/Epiphone shapes, but nothing too complicated. I really like the 'devil horn' look the SG has going on, so I thought i'd carry it over to the head stock.
I drew up a little sketch on the pc and printed out a template to scale. Traced the template onto a scrap bit of pine to practice on and got cracking with my fully professional set of luthiers tools (cheap coping saw, hacksaw and some Aldi metal files) what was that saying about the right tool for the job?
The test turned out OK (the photo makes it look worse than it is) i figured out that i need to cover both sides in masking tape to limit splintering.
http://i.imgur.com/oRR2IUbh.jpg
I also tested out how well masking and painting the face will work seeing as there's no binding
http://i.imgur.com/Tel9rq4h.jpg
Turns out - not great. I got some bleed through where the paint bled through the pores of the wood just slightly. Plus, i'm not sure that i can keep the Wudtone off the face and that can't be good for the paint to stick to. So i'm thinking i'll do the whole neck and headstock the one colour.
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Well, it seems that the imgur links i posted worked ok, so on we go.
Took the plunge with the real headstock, taped it up in packing material to protect it from bumps and scrapes, masked up the H/S and traced the design on from the paper template.
http://i.imgur.com/KtkjYQ2.jpg
Set up the high tech clamping system
http://i.imgur.com/oeY3hse.jpg
Rouged out the shape with the coping saw
http://i.imgur.com/r9NjAJ2.jpg
Then file the bejeesus out of it until it's very close to final shape.
http://i.imgur.com/98JMiUu.jpg
some 60 grit to take out the file marks and adjust the curve, and 120 grit to smooth off.
http://i.imgur.com/pdzYmFVh.jpg
Turned out pretty good, it's *almost* symmetrical, and there's some slight variation in cut angles if you look closely. Overall, i'm pretty happy with it. I was tempted to do a more exagerated shape to the horns, but i was worried they'd break off too easily, so i've gone with the more subdued shape more like the smaller horn on the body.
http://i.imgur.com/mJOhsI6h.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QwpIq1Wh.jpg
Some tips worth passing on:
Do a test piece
Tape both sides before cutting to reduce chips.
Cut with a mm or 2 margin and 'sneak up' on the shape with the file (filing is a legitimate wood working technique, just not usually with the files i used :p )
Know when to stop - it'll never be perfect and you can make it worse trying to fix it if you're not careful!
Final sanding and Wudtone to come.
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“A work of art is never finished. It is merely abandoned.”
E.M. Forster
Looks good Wiggles. I'm not a fan of Devils Horns anything, but that actually suits the guitar.
And yes, a jigsaw is a worthwhile investment.
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Not my fav headstock either, but have to admit you've done an incredible job. Well done! Nice filing too. Pretty easy to end up with unintended rounding-off, but looks like you've kept it pretty square.
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Thanks guys, even the ones who don't like it :P
More photos!
Test assembly went well, neck fit is tight and straight. Nut to 12th fret to bridge is pretty good (~2mm difference to the middle of the saddle adjustment, should be spot on once installed).
http://i.imgur.com/hIpFqxY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/G8ilWQf.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CIQEN4a.jpg
Final sanding was done in 240 grit and then gone over lightly with 0000 steel wool.
Masked up and ready for deep colour.
http://i.imgur.com/KAh2mkU.jpg
The body really soaked up the deep colour, i was worried i wouldn't have enough to cover body let alone the neck as well! Had enough in the end, with a little left over. The neck didn't take nearly as much as the body, so i might give it another deep coat to get it closer to the body.
I loved the flame top... mostly. As you can see, there's a couple of pale spots. I'm not sure what the story is there, it was all sanded the same and there was no glue or anything else splattered there that i could see.
There were a few spots on the edge as well, the couple of factory repaired dings that i'd taken to with the brass wire brush and sanding as mentioned in that other thread. But there was a couple of other spots around it that just didn't take the stain.
http://i.imgur.com/hQBTP1Kh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bfwXAZG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/AWjQIge.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ygz0kMj.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pkcO9hZ.jpg
Any ideas what's going on there? Did i do something wrong (or not do something that i should have)?
The back came up nicely, i think i'd have been better off with the non-flame SG. I'm a little bit disappointed with how this one turned out.
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Looks like you have a similar thing going on to me. There's something in the wood, maybe an especially sappy area, maybe something spilt on it in the factory. It's not something that's going to be easily fixed at all. Check out my build, you'll see a similar thing going on.
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It looks like that $&@$ glue......... Although not sure why there would be glue on an SG since there is no binding.....weird?
Otherwise it could be a 'polished' spot where either your efforts or the factories have sanded a spot to the point wjere it has become polished and hence will not take in any stain.
To me, this looks like the glue.....but at a loss as to why it is there.....
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Wiggles and Hooper, I've just alerted Dingo Bass to your issues and hopefully we'll get his advice. I fear, however, that he's just going to say you both haven't removed the glue with enough sanding.
I'm not sure what glue residue is doing on the SG-1F, unless it's from the flame cap, but it looks to be in an odd position.
I don't think either of you should live with these results. I'm sure amongst everyone here, we can work out what's causing the stain not to take and then figure out a workaround for both of you.
I wouldn't be putting any more coats on though. Hang tight till we work something out.
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Is there any way to fix it or at least minimise the impact?
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Oh of course, its a Flamed Maple Cap you have there, definitely the glue. Maybe worth having a chat to Adam and DB about your options with regards to getting this one right?
What I would be doing right now is getting out my sand paper and having another go at removing the glue that is more central to the guitar body.
I am concerned about the glue at the sides as the caps are usually incredibly thin at the edges and you run the risk of sanding through the cap. This then means you need to remove some of the edging or you are forced into doing a Burst finish to hide the exposed parts where the cap used to be.
DB, any thoughts on this?
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I have had another look at your body of the guitar and can tell you it is definitely the glue. I think you might need to redo the sanding job on the top. You will need to take extreme care not to sand through the cap.
Have another go with the steel brushes where the paint hasn't penetrated the wood. Follow the grain with the brushes as you scour the wood. Then to finish, lighty sand the wood with 180 grit.
Good luck!
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Just hang tight guys, DB's been in touch and we've now sent an urgent email to the Factory asking what glue they're using. When they answer (they're usually very quick), we'll come up with a procedure for removing the glue as part of the preparation. (And we'll do a dedicated video on it!)
I guess you'll both probably need to be sanding back to wood around these spots (if not the whole top). We will supply you with any Wudtone you need, at no cost, if you run out because of this.
Remember, as DB says, there's always a work around.
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OK, try Gavin's wire brush technique, going with the grain
Then give it alight sand with 180 grit paper and dab the Wudtone on.
Leave it to cure for two days and then dab on more, again leave it for two days.
Do not steel wool between coats until you have put the first base coat on.
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I have gathered all the intel on the glue issue and posted it all under one thread - hope this is useful to you!
it is here: http://pitbullguitars.com/?page_id=4...wtopic&t=242.0
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Hi Adam, I don't think it's glue in my case. a) it's in a helluva weird spot as there are no joins there and b) the mottled look suggests it's more a natural occurrence than man made. I appreciate your concern, but I'm keeping the oddity and pressing on. Do you guys look them over before shipping? I only ask because it really was quite obvious from the moment I unpacked. Don't stress though, I'm not unhappy.
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hey Hooper, in answer to your question, Phil W does look over every guitar he ships and he's a carpenter by trade, so he would certainly have noticed that knot. I guess, like me, he figured it was a nice bit of feature grain that should look good with the finish. I don't think he or I would've expected the result you got.
I'm glad you're going to keep going with it and I'm sure between DB, myself and all the other very helpful people here, we can get that top looking sensational.
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Thanks for the replies everyone. I won't have another chance to work on it again until Tuesday night, so i'll have a go then.
Plan of action is vigorous (but careful) brass wire brushing, 180 grit paper taking care not to go through the cap then dabbing Wudtone. I'll take pics of any progress.
I have enough deep colour to cover the repair areas, but i wanted to give the neck another coat to get it closer to the body and might not have enough to do both. Is 2 coats of deep likely to do what i want on the neck? or should i expect the neck to be a lighter shade to the body? or will more base coats on the neck bring the colour up later?
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Seems to be a common problem, i have similar markings in the exact same areas. Difficult to view when sanding and it feels flat when you do. Really only noticeable when you start staining.
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Hi all,
I have similar marks where wudtone hasn't soaked in on my PRS-1F(pic attached), I assume this is glue as well. I wasn't sure if it was something in the cap but will probably have to try and sand it out
my SG-1F didn't seem to have any glue on the cap but finding the outside area of the cap isn't soaking in the black magic woman as much as I'd like, might be more sanding for me !
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content...3-10.05.24.jpg
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Yep, dreaded glue. You will need to be very careful at the edges where the cap will be incredibly thin. It's very easy to sand right through the cap and then staining isnt an option . Best advice is to look at doing a burst with a solid exterior in this circumstance.
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Update time.
Got some better photos of the issue
http://i.imgur.com/Fh3REuL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0m6xpkb.jpg
Wire brushed and sanded, was very concerned that i'd bust through the cap. Did a few little glue spots around the side and near the neck pocket as well.
http://i.imgur.com/qgrDZQl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/hMgPdhGh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rKc98SC.jpg
Dabbed on some deep colour to the repaired areas and hung up to dry.
http://i.imgur.com/lCOHgSK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/f2RQUt5.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9R6zkTP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/02ElZxM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CSU4eqE.jpg
(Sorry for the dodgy pics, the flash washes out the detail and no flash gives grainy pics.)
I'll leave it there for 2 days as DB advised then dab some more on. I have the tiniest amount of deep colour left, should just about do another round.
I'm pretty happy with how the repaired area took the deep colour, but there's now a darker ring around the repair that i hope i can hide with the base coats to come.
The glue spots near where the neck attaches to the body didn't come up as well as i'd hoped, but it's very difficult to get in there. I might have another go at them, otherwise i can ignore that part as it's difficult to see.
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Hey Wiggles,
You are well on the way to defeating the dreaded glue drama!
As for the dark ring effect, you can over come this by carefully steel wooling around your touch up area and then once you have the repaired area as close to the body colour as possible, go over the whole lot with another deep colour coat.
let it cure for a few days and then give it a light steel wool and start on your base coats.
you mentioned that you are low on the deep colour. No probs, email me and we will sort you out.
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Cheers mate, i'm hoping i can get a little bit more flame effect to show up in the repair with a second application. The photos look like i've gone right through the cap, but IRL you can see a hint of it coming through.
Just to double check i'm on the right track, i'll:
* leave it for the next 2 days
* dab some more deep colour straight on the repaired areas (no steel wool)
* leave for 2 more days.
maybe again give it more until the repair is the correct colour.
Then:
* steel wool the darker area to get it to match the rest of the body \\
* do a whole coat of deep colour.
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Hey Wiggles,
Right on the money! 8-)
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Cheers mate, just wanted to have the instructions all together for when i come back days later and forgot what i'm up to ;)
I've emailed Adam to arrange some more deep colour as i couldn't find your email address.
Thanks for all the help & advice.
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Hey DB
Email? Did your 1800 number get turned off with the analog signal today?
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Haha, I like that!!! Adam hasn't set up that number yet has he???
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Replacement deep colour arrived Monday - thanks DB/Adam!
Applied some more to the repair yesterday, no photos as there isn't a lot to see. It looks much better now, flame effect starting to show nicely. I'll see how it's going over the weekend and post up any interesting pics.
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Got back into it yesterday.Steel wool on the darker area around on the repair took some of it down, but it's still noticable.
2nd coat of deep colour makes it look good, i'm hoping that i can do clever things on the base coats to make the repair less obvious (especially on the back).
http://i.imgur.com/VCoL3GC.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Hr7tUOu.jpg
Also did another coat of deep on the neck, it's pretty close to the body now.
http://i.imgur.com/ZywxGeb.jpg
So i'll leave it to cure for a bit before getting into the base coats. The carmine gypsy has a red and a mahogany base coat, should i alternate between the two? Or should i mix them together and apply as one?
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Looks like you've fixed it up quite a bit, but I know - you'll know it's there - pitty it wasnt a bit closer to the neck and covered by the pickguard. Nice colour overall though and good luck.
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I would go another deep colour coat first.
Try to avoid the darker areas as much as possible and you should be able to get a more even colour spread.
When this has cured, give it a good rub down with the steel wool and it should come up beautifully.
As for the mahogany base coat, usually one coat is enough to change the colour to the cherry.
Of course this is always up to your taste, and you may want to add more to deepen the colour.
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Thanks Brendon, The area under the pick guard is pristine :p It's fine, adds character i suppose!
Cheers DB, i'll give it another hit with deep colour and see how well i can even it out.
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Whatever the outcome it's already starting to look impressive. That's why we go for stains and natural wood to get that natural look...
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Went another coat of deep colour on Sunday as suggested, looks better. No photos, since it's difficult to see the difference.
I moved on to a coat of Mahogany base coat last night, makes quite a bit of difference.
Repair areas are (kinda, sorta) starting to look like grain features!
http://i.imgur.com/g2IYsts.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Uf1xIlT.jpg
I'm going to do a couple of coats of Carmine over the next week or so and see how it's looking. I was aiming for a real blood red, so i might go for another Mahogany depending on how it goes.
In other guitar making news - My wife made me this for my birthday 8-)
http://i.imgur.com/6HxdyWJ.jpg
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Hey, that's really coming together nicely, Wiggles. Love the cake!
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Yeah, the cake looks great!!! I might ask for a les Paul style cake for my birthday (which is drawing near now, Adam *promised* me a ST-1 kit and DB *promised* me the body mod and the Cherry Flamenco, to get my mind off the LP... WHATEVER YOU GUYS DO, DON'T TELL EITHER OF THEM!!!!)
Back to the subject, the SG is starting to go a bit more of a blood colour, like you wanted Wiggles, maybe a bit more Mahogany and you might actually be fine!
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