Different wood options

I'm looking for some feedback from the Luthiers (pros or novices) among our group on the different types of woods available for our Pit Bull Guitars.

At the moment, the majority of kits come with a "Basswood" body and Maple neck.

The factory offers a few options for the wood for the body. Following is a list of the available wood options and my rough estimation of the price difference it would make to the retail price.

Mahogany - add $10-15 per kit
Ash - add $12-17 per kit
Alder - add $20-30 per kit

I know the Mahogany looks great but is very light, but I'm not really familiar with the pros and cons of the other woods.

Any thoughts?

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Quote from adam on December 11, 2012, 16:28
I'm looking for some feedback from the Luthiers (pros or novices) among our group on the different types of woods available for our Pit Bull Guitars.

At the moment, the majority of kits come with a "Basswood" body and Maple neck.

The factory offers a few options for the wood for the body. Following is a list of the available wood options and my rough estimation of the price difference it would make to the retail price.

Mahogany - add $10-15 per kit
Ash - add $12-17 per kit
Alder - add $20-30 per kit

I know the Mahogany looks great but is very light, but I'm not really familiar with the pros and cons of the other woods.

Any thoughts?

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Ash and Alder are the two most commonly used Luthier timbers, they are relativly light weight but have good "tap tone" and resonance.
The only problem I have encounted with Alder is that it is a little on the soft side and dents easily. I have also experienced tear out when routing Alder, Very sharp tools are best for working Alder to stop this happening.
The Mahogany is the best timber I have found, mainly due to it's density and also it's excellent tone.
I do wonder about the Mahogany used on the LP-S1. It seemed to me a bit light in colour and weight, I don't think it is African 'Hog, which is the best to use.

Having said this, It would be great to offer these different timbers as alternatives.

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Quote from adam on December 11, 2012, 16:28
I'm looking for some feedback from the Luthiers (pros or novices) among our group on the different types of woods available for our Pit Bull Guitars.

At the moment, the majority of kits come with a "Basswood" body and Maple neck.

The factory offers a few options for the wood for the body. Following is a list of the available wood options and my rough estimation of the price difference it would make to the retail price.

Mahogany - add $10-15 per kit
Ash - add $12-17 per kit
Alder - add $20-30 per kit

I know the Mahogany looks great but is very light, but I'm not really familiar with the pros and cons of the other woods.

Any thoughts?

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Completely agree with above sentiments. Mahogany is fantastic to work with because it it light, sands and files easily too. It also makes a difference to the 'tap tone' depending on the number of pieces of wood that go into the making of the body. The more pieces of wood the less enjoyable the tone....

Hi Adam, what factory are you using? Do they stock models in Paulownia wood. That seems to be a popular option with some factories.

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Quote from bodders on December 12, 2012, 11:01
Hi Adam, what factory are you using? Do they stock models in Paulownia wood. That seems to be a popular option with some factories.

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Paulownia is gaining popularity mainly because it is a very light wood and since it is often used as a soundboard in acoustic instrument, it sounds fantastic as a tone wood. However, the downside is that it is prone to being dinged and dented unless pampered. Because the wood is so soft, it is not so good for bodies where the intention is to attach a tremolo unless the body is routed and a harder piece of wood inserted where the tremolo would be attached.

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Quote from Gavin1393 on December 11, 2012, 21:16
The more pieces of wood the less enjoyable the tone....

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I'd rather pay for a 1- or maybe 2-piece body. And then there is fretboard wood.

As for the idea that the trem could be mounted in a soft body on an insert of harder wood- nah, for the very reason I quoted above.

"Ash" needs to be clarified. Swamp Ash is preferred in the top secret bunker, light and musical, and used in the 50s F-brands. Ash is heavier with more sustain. Afraid you can't have both, it seems.

Poplar is an option that shouldn't be dismissed, and it finishes well.

Adam- go to warmoth.com to see what sells and their reasonably honest appraisal of tone woods. (http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Bodies...odOptions.aspx)

In the end, it comes down purely to $$. And I am going to get ripped apart for this one- since it seems some kits are have so many coats of finish, tone doesn't count because the body has been strangled. So go with the options that finish the best- that will keep the punters happy.

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Quote from dmac on December 12, 2012, 14:28

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Quote from Gavin1393 on December 11, 2012, 21:16
The more pieces of wood the less enjoyable the tone....

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I'd rather pay for a 1- or maybe 2-piece body. And then there is fretboard wood.

As for the idea that the trem could be mounted in a soft body on an insert of harder wood- nah, for the very reason I quoted above.

And I am going to get ripped apart for this one- since it seems some kits are have so many coats of finish, tone doesn't count because the body has been strangled.

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No ripping apart - just knowing nods of agreement! I NEVER put more than 3 or 4 coats on an acoustic soundboard - just kills the sound.

...and 100% agree with you DMac on the Tremelo hardwood insert and the subsequent loss of tone...but that is what would need to be done with a Paulownia body - so why start with one if it is the intention to add a Tremolo in the first place! ;)

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Quote from Gavin1393 on December 12, 2012, 14:46
No ripping apart - just knowing nods of agreement! I NEVER put more than 3 or 4 coats on an acoustic soundboard - just kills the sound.

...and 100% agree with you DMac on the Tremelo hardwood insert and the subsequent loss of tone...but that is what would need to be done with a Paulownia body - so why start with one if it is the intention to add a Tremolo in the first place! ;)

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Agreed, so let's look at what people expect, because 9/10 that's what they buy. A ST or TL normally leaves the factory in alder or swamp. An LP, SG, XP or Jnr leaves the factory in mahogany. If I was a punter educated by ads and guitar heroes, I wouldn't look at a mahogany TL, or an alder LP.

OTOH, if I knew my stuff, I would also know things like Satrianis are basswood, Vais are either basswood or alder, and some other top-shelf I-brand models like the Paul Gilbert and Iceman are mahogany.

So if I was listing new models, the wood upgrades would be
[*]F-brand model options as swamp ash or alder and [*]G-brands as mahogany

because no matter how good the alternatives are, people expect those woods in these models.

Assuming the only I-brand model I offer is a JEM, I would stick with basswood only and watch and wait. If I expanded the I-brand range, I'd go the Iceman/Paul Gilbert (which is an inverted iceman) in mahogany, and a JS in basswood. If I got ambitious, the 7-string, and the just released 8-string with a Floyd Rose (I'm not going hear that one...) are both alder.

More thoughts?

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Quote from bodders on December 12, 2012, 11:01
Hi Adam, what factory are you using? Do they stock models in Paulownia wood. That seems to be a popular option with some factories.

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Hey Bodders, they do some kits in Palownia, but I assumed it was just a veneer, like the flame maple or spalted maple. I could be wrong.

I'll check and get back to you.

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So if I was listing new models, the wood upgrades would be
[*]F-brand model options as swamp ash or alder and [*]G-brands as mahogany

because no matter how good the alternatives are, people expect those woods in these models.

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This sounds like a sensible approach. I'll put some more thought into this and maybe set up a "Special Orders" page on the site, with some prices and delivery times for different wood options. Otherwise, I think we're heading in the right direction with the stock we've got now and coming soon. I'm particularly excited about the new TL models due in a couple of weeks. From memory, I went for a few different wood options.

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Quote from dmac on December 12, 2012, 14:28

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Quote from Gavin1393 on December 11, 2012, 21:16
The more pieces of wood the less enjoyable the tone....

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I'd rather pay for a 1- or maybe 2-piece body. And then there is fretboard wood.

As for the idea that the trem could be mounted in a soft body on an insert of harder wood- nah, for the very reason I quoted above.

"Ash" needs to be clarified. Swamp Ash is preferred in the top secret bunker, light and musical, and used in the 50s F-brands. Ash is heavier with more sustain. Afraid you can't have both, it seems.

Poplar is an option that shouldn't be dismissed, and it finishes well.

Adam- go to warmoth.com to see what sells and their reasonably honest appraisal of tone woods. (http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Bodies...odOptions.aspx)

In the end, it comes down purely to $$. And I am going to get ripped apart for this one- since it seems some kits are have so many coats of finish, tone doesn't count because the body has been strangled. So go with the options that finish the best- that will keep the punters happy.

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No arguments about strangling timbers here either, dMac.

Plastic and timber should never meet!

I have an Epi Thunderbird that has about 50 coats of paint and poly, Very tempted to sand it off but I am a bit concerned as to what I may find under all that paint and poly....

With finishes, less is best.

Also, Swamp Ash is one of my preferred timbers, along side good ole African Mahogany...

(Saying that I have been experimenting with Jarrah, built a few neck through Basses with it and although you may need to be built like the Incredible Hulk to survive a gig with one of these beasts hanging off you, the sound is amazing!) :D

So, to cap all that off, I agree with the choices and the idea of a seperate options section. That way all bases are covered.

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Agreed, so let's look at what people expect, because 9/10 that's what they buy. A ST or TL normally leaves the factory in alder or swamp. An LP, SG, XP or Jnr leaves the factory in mahogany. If I was a punter educated by ads and guitar heroes, I wouldn't look at a mahogany TL, or an alder LP.

OTOH, if I knew my stuff, I would also know things like Satrianis are basswood, Vais are either basswood or alder, and some other top-shelf I-brand models like the Paul Gilbert and Iceman are mahogany.

So if I was listing new models, the wood upgrades would be
[*]F-brand model options as swamp ash or alder and [*]G-brands as mahogany

because no matter how good the alternatives are, people expect those woods in these models.

Assuming the only I-brand model I offer is a JEM, I would stick with basswood only and watch and wait. If I expanded the I-brand range, I'd go the Iceman/Paul Gilbert (which is an inverted iceman) in mahogany, and a JS in basswood.

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Second this motion!

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Quote from dingobass on December 12, 2012, 17:24
No arguments about strangling timbers here either, dMac.

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The day I win Guitar Of The Month- shoot me! :P

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Quote from dingobass on December 12, 2012, 17:24

(Saying that I have been experimenting with Jarrah, built a few neck through Basses with it and although you may need to be built like the Incredible Hulk to survive a gig with one of these beasts hanging off you, the sound is amazing!) :D

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I agree that we should try local timbers, but that's probably a moot point when we're talking of kits. Although that would be an interesting experiment... Hmmm....

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Quote from Gavin1393 on December 12, 2012, 20:05

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Agreed, so let's look at what people expect, because 9/10 that's what they buy. A ST or TL normally leaves the factory in alder or swamp. An LP, SG, XP or Jnr leaves the factory in mahogany. If I was a punter educated by ads and guitar heroes, I wouldn't look at a mahogany TL, or an alder LP.

OTOH, if I knew my stuff, I would also know things like Satrianis are basswood, Vais are either basswood or alder, and some other top-shelf I-brand models like the Paul Gilbert and Iceman are mahogany.

So if I was listing new models, the wood upgrades would be
[*]F-brand model options as swamp ash or alder and [*]G-brands as mahogany

because no matter how good the alternatives are, people expect those woods in these models.

Assuming the only I-brand model I offer is a JEM, I would stick with basswood only and watch and wait. If I expanded the I-brand range, I'd go the Iceman/Paul Gilbert (which is an inverted iceman) in mahogany, and a JS in basswood.

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Second this motion!

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Motion carried! :D

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Quote from adam on December 11, 2012, 16:28
I'm looking for some feedback from the Luthiers (pros or novices) among our group on the different types of woods available for our Pit Bull Guitars.

At the moment, the majority of kits come with a "Basswood" body and Maple neck.

The factory offers a few options for the wood for the body. Following is a list of the available wood options and my rough estimation of the price difference it would make to the retail price.

Mahogany - add $10-15 per kit
Ash - add $12-17 per kit
Alder - add $20-30 per kit

I know the Mahogany looks great but is very light, but I'm not really familiar with the pros and cons of the other woods.

Any thoughts?

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i would pick mahogany any day as it looks *censored* amazing when finished, and is amazingly light! so light that my Clevan Strat is heavier than my Epi LP Jr!!!
So based on experience, i'd think mahogany would suit its price

I'd give my right leg to get Wenge or Tasmanian Blackwood as a neck option, but other than that I am happy with all Maple neck+FB.

Swamp Ash is great, but the option to specifically buy the heaviest piece you have available would be nice.