Build Diary: IB-4 (first build)

Kit arrived in terrific condition and well packaged against damage. Did a quick fitting of the neck to the body pocket, seemed spot on. All parts accounted for.

My plan is to stain the body using SamaN water based stain in the “Spice” colour. I bought a decal of the Canadian flag through Etsy from Design Divil Studio in Ireland. After one or two coats of grain filler and the sanding sealer, I plan to apply the decal, then continue on with the water based varnish for the entire body.

Attachment 45717

I plan to use only polymerized tung oil on the neck.

Was unsure of what level of sanding the body came with out of the box. Started with 80 grit, then 120. I later learned that the body does come pre-sanded to about 120 grit, and that there might already be a coating of wood conditioner. There were some machine marks running across the grain on the front and back, in basically the same location on each side (as can be seen in photo).

Attachment 45718

Repeated sanding (using the #2 pencil trick) only made a small difference each time. After about 6 six passes, including with 240 grit, I decided to stop and move on to putting on a coat of SamaN water-based sanding sealer using a sponge brush. Once it dried, I sanded it down lightly with 240 grit paper.

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Next, I did a bad job of applying a coat (or more) of stain. I’m not sure if I should have diluted it a little first, as it seemed to go on kind of thick, but I believe the real problem was my lack of experience in applying stain. As seen in the photos, it was way too thick. Either it was due to my lack of experience, or the wood was super thirsty, causing it to dry very quickly (or both). I tried wiping off the excess with a clean cloth, but was a little too late as it got thick and tacky in less than a minute. Lesson learned: have a cloth ready to wipe the excess stain off within about 10 to 20 seconds, and don’t do a large area all at once.

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Luckily, a lot of sanding got the the stain back to a decent looking level, eventually with little visible blotchiness. The top edges between the “horns” and the neck pocket were the hardest to get to a decent level. I went from 80 grit up to 240 grit, and even tried 400 grit to see how well it worked. I then saw a video where it was advised to not go more than about 120 grit between stainings, so I went back and tried to rough it up a bit with a quick sanding using 80 and then 120 grit.

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Next up is to finish sanding the blotchy areas down better before the second coat of stain.

To be continued...:cool:

The plan sounds good. Not a stain I have seen before, but the color looks pretty good. I typically don't use sandpaper that is quite that agressive, but then I am not great with stain either.

How are you applying it, and how do you plan to topcoat? Since the stain you are using is "reactivating" (I looked it up) I'll be curious how you plan to topcoat? Are you spraying?

Hey, fender3x, I'm not too great with stain either, by my initial results. My plan on staining and top coating come from looking at as many Youtube tutorials as I could stand :)

I'm about to post my progress from today, it did turn out fairly well after my 2nd coat of stain. I made sure to wipe it down almost immediately after applying it. (I use a fine-pore sponge to put it on).

Sanding is still something I'm shaky on, at least when it comes to how best to correct mistakes like machine marks and enhancing the grain. Once I'm done with a last coat to darken it even more, I will put on 2 or 3 coats of grain filler, depending on how smooth I can get it. I'm planning to use water-based grain filler, so I'm hoping it does not reactivate the stain. I'm going to let the stain set for 2 or 3 days in the hope that it will be okay. Maybe you know of a better way to seal in the stain? If I need to use a spray method, I will, but at the moment I plan to either foam brush it on, or rub it in with my fingers. After that, I plan to put a coat of sanding sealer (again, water based). Once that is sanded as smoothly as I can, then I will put on the water based varnish (2 or more coats, depending on how it goes). I will probably put the decal on right before the varnish.

I'm hoping I can do it all with foam brushing, but if you or others on here recommend against it then I will look at getting a sprayer.

Edit: The "spice" colour looks redder in person and on the Saman web site. These photos don't show it very well. After thinking about it, I definitely want to go darker with it, so hopefully the next coat will do the trick.

Sorry for such a long reply :p

Second staining went pretty well. There were still some spots that wanted to stay thick and not wipe off, so I used very judicious swipes with a damp cloth to coax it to a level that matched the surrounding level of stain. It’s at about the level of darkness that I want, but I saw or read that subsequent coats of grain filler and sanding sealer will probably lighten it up a bit, so I will put on one more quick coat of stain. The front looks pretty good, and I plan to make it the same as the rest of the body, just in case I have to scrap the decal idea for the front. The machine marks I tried sanding out came out pretty well, very hard to see, but I had not noticed the machine marks running along the bottom curve-edge. Not super noticeable to the naked eye, and will be covered by the decal unless that doesn’t work out.
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The second coat is looking nice and even. The grain has popped a bit. It should look great with clear coats!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pat Rodgers

Hey, fender3x, I'm not too great with stain either, by my initial results.

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Well... I'd be pretty good with the outcome your're getting!

Water based top coats don't tend to change the color much, so I don't think it will darken it much. If it were me I would put a couple of coats of dewaxed platina shellac between all of the water based products. Platina doesn't add much color, and it will help with pulling. Brushing tends to pull a bit more than spraying, so I end up using the shellac a lot. What will you be using for top-coat? I have just switched to using BriteTone from Crystalac. Prior to that I used General Finishes High Performance--which I definitely do NOT recommend.

For filler you won't have to worry about the pulling if you use a clear filler like Aqua Coat.* It dried super clear and doesn't yellow--but it's pricey and I have found that it requires quite a few coats to really fill. But it has worked for me on translucent finishes. Crystalac also makes a clear filler, but I have only used the one from Aqua Coat so can't speak from direct experience. You can also tint the filler as TD suggested. I think Famowood filler would work, but you'd need to tint it since it's pretty light color. Timbermate may be OK too, tinted, but I haven't used it myself.

I saw a video of one of the owners of Crystalac using a foam brush, so I know it can be done. His daughter recommend I use an orange Taclon brush, like these:

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I have tried a lot of applicators (foam, with and without the brush handle, wipe on rags, sash brushes, goat hair "hake" brushes), but so far the Taclon brushes and a great deal of practice have been working best... My technique, however, is still a work in progress ;-)

*The clear fillers will activate the stain a bit, but it just tints the filler the same color as the stain which you are just working in to the same area...so it hasn't really matter on my builds.

Hey guys, thanks for the encouraging words and advice. fender3x, thanks for all of that info, I will take a look at the Platina shellac.

Right now, I'm planning to use Aqua Coat grain filler, especially since you recommend it and I already bought it :)

For the top coat, I plan to use Saman water based varnish. I do have a nice synthetic hair brush, so I will try that instead of the foam brush.

I hadn't heard of SamaN before. I found examples of folks staining with their products on the web, but not much about clear coating. I did see that Solo Guitars sells it as a guitar finish, and I saw people using it on floors and stairs. If it will stand up to shoes it should do well on a guitar ;-) Will be interested to know how you like it. Reading about it...it looks like it cures in a week. That would be faster than any other water based top coat I have seen! That would be nice! I have been using BriteTone which takes about 4 weeks to fully cure.

I've never worked with water based stain before (or anything water based, for that matter). I like it so far, I would say that it's a bit harder to work with than oil based, but that might be my lack of experience. The videos on how to apply it sure make it look easier than I found it to be :D

I really don't like how little red is in the "spice" colour, so I'm going to get some in "cherry red" to do a coat and see how it looks. As you mentioned, I got it from Solo here in Canada. I currently have it sanded down so that the dark parts of the grain stand out nicely, so I'm hoping that the red will come through in a darker hue than just cherry red would on its own; I think that would look better with the reds in the flag decal. I'll post photos once I've done that.

I think the water based grain filler and varnish will work well, and I'll let you know.

Cheers!

I think there is a fair amount of consensus that water based is harder to work with. I really don't have much experience with anything else, but what I gather (and have paid for with much sanding) is that it doesn't tend to level as well. Also it takes a while to fully cure, although what I read about Saman is about twice as quick drying and curing than what I have been using lately (Crystalac Brite Tone). Brite Tone says 4 hours between coats and about 4 weeks to fully cure.

I will be really interested in how you like Saman. It's cheaper than Brite Tone, and has an additional ingredient (aluminum oxide) that should improve it's scuff resistance. It also seems to work within a huge humidity range which would be good here in humidity land. Also my family on my Father's side all originate from Nicolet, QC...about 70km from the Saman headquarters ;-)

I forgot to mention something...not so much a suggestion, but something to consider. It's always good to test the finish before you commit to it on the guitar. The water based finishes I have used take a lot of technique to brush on thin enough so that they flatten well. I think part of the reason is that they tend to skin-over relatively quickly, but then take a while to dry. What the mfg suggested I try with Brite Tone was their retarder... So I got some, but then my technique improved enough so that I have not used it. Also I worried about runs on curved surfaces. The Saman dries considerably quicker so if you have trouble getting it to level you might try their retarder. Alternatively, and this has worked well for me, you might prime your brush with water before dipping in the the finish. That, a light touch, and moving relatively quickly have made the most difference for me--so far. Still working on the technique for sure!

Wow, thanks for this advice! I will def look into the retarder. The tip on dipping the brush in water sounds like a really good one. I'll keep you posted on how it goes :)

It seems to have made a difference. Also making a difference, learning to allow the brush to drip off, and learning not to wipe the excess off on the side of the container, but rather to let it drip off. They say say that wiping it on the edge will create bubles, but it seems totally counterintuitive to me. Also keeping a light enough touch not to "push" the finish. I have struggled with getting the coats as thin as the guy in the vid suggests. His daughter (on their facebook group) suggested the taklon brush. I had been using foam like the guy in the but was still getting bubbles and streaks. It seems to work well for him though, so it's probably technique related.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sryvmccq6xA&t=95s

This was also helpful to me...

(vid in next post)

...not so much for the volume of product on the brush, but for the speed. Fast, long strokes in one direction. What is not clear from the vids (at least to me) is that these ladies both have a VERY light touch. As one of them told me "the weight of the brush or less." At least for me, pushing and not moving fast enough seem to correspond more to streaking than the amount of product I have on the brush.

House painting just did not prepare me for this ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zKVUcpSACg