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Hi everyone! I'm making a Bc-1 kit for my son- I got it for him for Xmas some years ago, it was supposed to be a father-and-son project, he got distracted and forgot about it - so I thought I'd make it for his 21st birthday!!
I have a few questions, so if it anyone has been through similar and can help with their opinion I'd appreciate that - it will save me messing it up!!
thanks
Barney
The first question is fitting the neck to the body. I've carefully sanded the body to allow the neck to fit in. It seems to fit in quite well now, but it doesn't sit flat (photo shows it better). Is the actual neck supposed to be a couple of mm above the guitar body>?
You can see the bottom of the neck is fitting into the body quite well, but the top with the frets seems quite a way above the body?Attachment 45283
That looks right! The fretboard and the pickups will sit above the body. The neck also sits at an angle of about 4 degrees down from the body!Quote:
Originally Posted by Barno
Have a look at picture 5 of my MBM-1 pictures at: https://www.buildyourownguitar.com.au/forum/showthread.php?
t=12509&p=227787&viewfull=1#post227787
It is the same.
Oh good! Thanks Trevor.
I was mindful of just keeping on sanding - better to check before taking more off, it's a bit tricky I'd imagine to glue the sawdust back once I'd sanded it!! haha
I'll post my next question
p.s. you've done a great job of the finish on that guitar 👍
Here's question number 2...
Page 9 of the Assembly guide says: "Don't press in the threaded inserts yet. Instead
wrap either multiple layers of masking tape or
some plastic tubing around the posts and push
them into the post holes in the body"
Mine barely go 1/2 way into the holes (I've attached a pic). If I added tape as they suggest, I wouldn't even get it started in the hole. I have got a tiny sanding bit for my Dremel, but again thought I ask / check before leaping into sanding mode!
I've attached 2 pix, one shows the inserts in to the point I can't push them in any further - they're only about 1/2 way in.Attachment 45285 Attachment 45284
There are two parts to these, the insert (or bushing) and the screw-in post. (Other names are the anchor and post!) Unscrew the posts from the bushings, then put the masking tape around the threaded parts of the posts until it is just smaller than the diameter of the bushing.
The inserts are a very tight fit as friction holds them in place. They will go in after the body has the finish on.
Ah!! That makes perfect sense now, thanks Trevor
I'll give that a go tomorrow night when home from work.
Great stuff.
Hi Trevor and everyone
I took another look at the guitar today, working through pages 10-12 in the manual. I clamped (carefully) the neck to the body, added the taped-up end chrome piece. Then, added the two E strings.
The good news is they run nice and parallel along the neck. However, they seem to be touching near where the neck joins the body. I'm not sure if this is going to require a bit of sanding to lower the neck just a little more. Happy to do that - I'm mindful of course of taking wood off unnecessarily, as once it's off.... :)
I've attached two photos which kind of show the situation. Any thoughts? (and thanks)
BarneyAttachment 45300Attachment 45301
I think that should be fine! When the bushings are in, they will raise the posts and the bridge by a few mm, plus, the screw inserts can be raised (not screwed in so far) to raise the bridge and strings further. You can see this on picture 4 of my MBM-1 build at https://www.buildyourownguitar.com.a...l=1#post227787.
Having a screw on neck, also means that adjustments can be made later if needed.
It is when you do the mock-up and the strings are too high that it becomes an issue!
I hope this helps!
1+Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Davies
Also string tension will bow the neck a bit to pull the strings up
Sent from my LE2125 using Tapatalk
Hi Trevor,
oh right - I see what you mean on your link. Thanks for posting that. I'll continue to the next stage! Slow and steady progress haha
Cheers
Barney
Hi everyone! (and Trevor in particular :) ). Merry Xmas to you all!
I am moving on with my son's guitar. I have 7 weeks left until his birthday, I'm hoping I can leave about a month for the painting (to do a good job).
I've drilled the 4 x hoes in the neck to connect it to the body, while it was clamped. I didn't drill through the neck, which was planned but still a relief!
I have 3 quick questions for my next progress:
1. I'm about to start checking the height of the frets - I don't think I need the neck connected to the body for this?
2. But, if I need to do any checking and adjustment with the neck to see if it's concave / convex - I will? And to do the concave / convex check - I'd need to (temporarily) put the bridge etc back?
3. It might be worth me test-fitting and drilling the 4 x small holes per pickup, before I think about painting?
thanks as always for your thoughts
Barney
Hi Barno, merry Christmas!
1. For the height of the frets, or fret levelling, the neck does not need to be fitted. But the neck does need to be perfectly flat!
2. When the neck is fitted, and strings are added with tension, Then the neck will need a slight concave bow. But do not worry about this until much later.
3. I would leave the pickup surround holes until after painting. That way you can get them positioned correctly under the strings.
I hope this helps. TD
Thanks Trevor, I'll get busy today checking out those frets! :)
OK I made some progress, carefully masking up the frets, applying Sharpie marker and then carefully passing over it with 400 sandpaper in a straight edge.
Almost all of my frets exposed similar amounts of shine after a few passes, which I'm guessing might mean I'm a bit lucky.
One fret though showed a lot of shine and on close inspection, looks like it's lifting up a bit. I gave it a few gentle taps with a plastic hammer but it doesn't seem to want to sit down.
Am I maybe looking to try to get a tiny bit of Araldite glue in there, then clamping the fret for a day to let it settle?
I've attached 2 pix. You can see the fret has just popped up a little.
thanks!
I have never had this problem!
My 2 cents: If the gentle taps with a plastic mallet did nothing, then I would try glueing it back into place. I would use CA glue (superglue) as it is quite "thin" and will wick along the join better than a thicker glue. If you put wax paper (the kitchen type) over the glue join it will stop the CA from sticking to your wood spacer and clamp. Any glue runs can be sanded or scraped off.
I'm not sure how much force will need to be applied to the fret, but a capo may apply enough to hold it down and keep the correct curve!
That's a very good idea, I'll try that this afternoon!
thanks Trevor :)
Hi Trevor I had a few challenges with that rogue fret. A capo wasn't enough to clamp it down, and neither was the large F-clamp I used for holding the neck to the body.
Plan 2 was to gently lift the fret off without bending it. I used a tiny jeweller's screwdriver and took my time. I wasn't convinced the little channel that the fret sits in was quite deep enough, so I used a jeweller's coping saw with the tiniest blade to deepen it a little. It sits pretty flush, so I used some 800 sandpaper to carefully take it down a little more to be sure.
I think it's ok now, and managed to put a tiny bit of superglue at each end.
Tomorrow it's primer coat 1 on the body - I'm going to paint it so gave it a 400 sand all over. I'll do 3 primer coats as the instructions suggest, with a light sand in between each, and leaving a day to dry between coats. It's about 18-20 deg here; some Brisbane heat would be nice.
I'll also start reading the pick-up / switch / etc soldering guide - soldering for me is the easy bit!!
Great that you got the fret issue sorted.
It sure is.
I've checked the neck itself - it has the slightest convex curve which as I understand it is fine. I haven't tightened the nut at the head end yet, is the best time to do that is when the strings are on it?
I'm going to do the pre-wiring today as that's something I've had a lot of experience in and can do as the coats of paint begin to land on it :)
I read through, but I am a little confused about whether you did a fret-leveling? Typically when you do that the neck should be perfectly flat. To check the flatness I use a straight edge with notches. I bought one for guitar for $10, but I have also made them for basses from an aluminum straight edge.
Attachment 45332
It should not be concave or convex. So much for the question you did not ask ;-)
To answer the question you did ask, yes, you need to have the strings on, and the guitar tuned to do the truss rod adjustment. If the neck is flat the string tension will pull it to slightly concave from string tension. Doesn't matter, at that point, whether it is a little convex or concave because you'll be adjusting it to get it where it needs to be.
I have an engineers rule that I notched with an angry grinder to check the neck for straightness, a stanley knife blade for a fret rocker and a metal spirit level with a machined face for a sanding bar, I run a strip of blue masking tape down the machined face and then super glue the abrasive material to that.
Does the job admirably, quicker and much cheaper to obtain than buying from the likes of Stewmac.
All available from the shed that should not be mentioned
Hi there fender3x :)
I followed the instructions that said to check if the neck is concave or convex. If widely out of whack, and certainly for concave, it might need to be nut-tightened to get it fairly flat before checking the frets to see if any are proud.
My neck was ever so slightly convex which I think is fine, and once the strings are on and tightened it levels it out a bit more.
When I did the fret-levelling I found a couple that were a touch high but gentle work and they're level with the others now.
I also did the 2 E-strings check where you put these on (bridge etc just temporarily on too) to ensure they ran nice and parallel to the neck (they did)
I had a mongrel steel straight edge, a purple sharpie pen, some 400 sandpaper... and a pair of aging old eyes hahaQuote:
Originally Posted by dave.king1
I think quite a few of us have those :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Barno
I'm ready now to get stuck into the painting. Very exciting. I know this will take a while but I'm prepared to put in the effort. (My plan = 3 coats primer, 3 coats top, 3-5 coats clear)
I'm liking a dark-grey-hammered look spray paint, and I've put the first primer coat on (I sanded all over to 400, then gave the front a light 800 sandpaper). I've used the hammer effect spray before, it's very nice. It needs a nice smooth base to work properly on. Hopefully the clear top coats and in-between sanding won't ruin the hammered eff
The first coat of grey primer feels a bit odd. 24 hours of drying later, I thought it would be pretty smooth, to be honest. It feels a bit gritty, almost dusty. I did it in the garage, with no wind or air circulating. Even remembered to move the car outside first. I shook the can for 3 minutes to start with, and it is definitely suitable for wood.
Has anyone come across this? I'm surprised it's like this, maybe that's how primer goes?
I'm thinking it will get 3 coats (coat 1, dry 24hours, light sand, coat 2, 24 h, etc)
I've posted some pics. Any thoughts, most welcome.
Thanks!Attachment 45335Attachment 45336Attachment 45337
I have only used "rattle cans" a couple of times. But I recall Forum members talking about spraying a dust coat (as a check for flat surfaces!), where the can is held too far from the body being painted - resulting in the paint drops drying before they hit the body. I would try holding the can a bit closer to the body while spraying to get a wetter coat. My 2 cents!
Sounds feasible - I'll give it a light sand today and a closer coat tomorrow when the weather nears 20 deg.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Davies
Happy to spend a bit more time getting it right now so it looks half-decent later on!!
thanks Trevor
I have had the dust/pebble effect before. As TD said, could be distance. Could also happen when it's really hot and/or dry out. Either way it's generally caused by some of the paint drying before hitting the surface. You could try getting closer. I'd also check the temperature ranges it's supposed to be painted in, and if it cares about humidity.
It may not matter with a primer coat, since you may not care much what it looks like once you sand flat. With a color coat I have had decent luck with MTN 94 spray paints. I have gotten the dust effects or occasional blotches when the nozzle gets a little old, but they have sanded out well. I am not sure what a hammered look spray paint looks like--although I am looking forward to seeing one here ;-) The primer I had pebbles with was Duplicolor. Although it sanded out well, I no longer use Duplicolor because the colored spray paint does not react well to the heat and humidity of the place I live. The primer did fine though.
Morning all - yes Fender3x and Trevor - I think you hit the nail on the head. I did a light sand to take the "dust" off and re-sprayed a fair bit closer. It is much smoother and feels "right". Good call. I'll give it a light 400 sand, and another coat of primer at the better distance. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by fender3x
I've attached a couple of pics of a hammered copper paint I used for a turntable pre-amp I made. It's quite a nice effect.
That is a nice effect! Hope it works out on the guitar!
Thanks! I'm hopeful too.Quote:
Originally Posted by fender3x
It just occurred to me as I work through the primer coats on the body - do people typically paint the neck the same colour as the body? I've just noticed the neck sitting there with the masking tape on it from fret checking - and thought hey! something's going to need to be done with that!!!
What do you folks typically do with your necks?
I do have a rub-in darkish oak-tinted stain, and that might look ok with the darkish hammered metal body - but having neck and body the same might be best? Any thoughts welcome!
Hi Barno,
as far as the neck goes - anything goes!
With my painted guitars they all have the same colour neck and headstock! [Note to self - mix it up more!] With my stained guitars it is a mixture with some having the same colour stain as the body, some are natural, some are stained a different colour to the body.
Having a look at the BC Rich website, they do lots of different things as well! I quite like the part painted, part natural look!
You may not want the hammered look paint on the back of the neck as it may feel bumpy! Maybe a combo! Sprayed headstock and heel of neck with a natural neck. Go crazy!
Not much to add to TD's post.
Fender's mostly finish their necks in a natural or tinted/stained finish. Gibson, Gretsch and Rickenbacker tend to finish the neck like the guitar. BC Rich's are uncommon enough that I think you can pretty much do what you want without calling you on it. Most bolt-ons are finished natural-ish, but that's probably because most bolt-ons are copies, or at least variations on a Fender theme.
FWIW, I think the hammered paint look would look great on the headstock, but I don't think I'd use it on the back of the neck. Most people don't finish an ebony or rosewood fingerboard...but Rickenbacker does, and if you like that look you can too ;-)
Talking about that, I am curious whether you'll put a clear coat over the hammered finish? I have been using a satin finish on necks, because I like the feel better than gloss or semigloss. I have been using semigloss on bodies since I learned that it flattens a bit better than semigloss. I also use semigloss now on the top of the headstock. One thing I would recommend to anyone is to do a thumb test with whatever finish you plan to use on the back of the neck. When you run your thumb along the back some finishes (particularly the glossier ones) can feel "sticky." To me, the satin finishes feel less sticky and faster. I actually used to keep a maroon sanding pad around to satin-ize a couple of my glossy necked guitars.
Hi folks, I'm one coat in with the hammered paint. My son isn't a (yet) fast guitar player so not too worried about the "speed" of the paint on the back. if he gets good, I suspect he'll get us, I mean, me to make him another guitar haha
I've decided to go all over with the hammered paint. I found a youtube video about this type of paint that noted if you hold the can back a little =, the hammering is less noticeable. So, I'm doing this for the back of the neck. The guitar body and head will get closer painting.
This paint apparently comes up a nice finish without clear, which is a bit unusual. I found this when spraying my headphone amp. I am tempted just to give it a single clear coat at the end. If I sand it even with 1500, 2000 sandpaper it might damage the hammered effect.
I'm leaving it 2-3 days between coats, aiming to get 3 full coats.
I'm also cutting some decorative copper panels (approx 0.2mm thick) to add to the guitar head and body too - I'll send pics when they're done (he wanted some copper on it)
I'll report back!!
Not knowing what brand paint you are using I've had problems with SCA acrylic clear coat sticking to the pads on my guitar racks.
I'm planning to give the TL & ST a light rub back and redo the clear coat with wipe on poly, none of my other builds used SCA clear and haven't given the same problem
You may want to do a test piece with and without clear. One coat won't give you much protection...but you may not need it at all. I am definitely not an expert, and know nothing at all about hammered look paint...But I'd be inclined either to use more clear or no clear. But the best advice can probably give you is to contact the paint mfg and ask them what they think would be best ;-) Most of the time when I have done this they have mostly given good advice, and generally I get a response relatively quickly.
This is why I no longer use Duplicolor. I am not blaming the mfg. It is probably related to the heat and humidity of the place where I spray...but since I don't control the weather and don't like paint that sticks where it shouldn't and doesn't stay stuck where it should...Quote:
Originally Posted by dave.king1
Hi folks, I did some more research and my finding is that if you leave at least 3 days between coats, no clear is needed.
So I did 3 coats, front and back with 3-4 days in between and it looks pretty nice really. Still has its own nice gloss - not excessive and is fairly smooth. So I think it's alright.
This weekend I get to put it all together and hope I do it in the right order! (something like neck to body, headstock nuts, bridge etc, pickups, wiring.... and hoping it all works!!)
I have 17 days before son's birthday so I'm hoping I can get it done and tested (I'll play a few notes upside down as I'm left-handed) before his birthday.
thanks all for the notes etc so far... I'm sure I'll have a few more questions as I head into the final straight :D