what should i finish a maple neck with preferably a lacquer
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what should i finish a maple neck with preferably a lacquer
Are you meaning the maple fretboard, or the neck and headstock, or both?
Actually, it may not matter! I think most folks here use the same top coat material for the neck and the maple fretboard. I have only ever used Tru-oil on the maple fretboards, but I'm about to try w/b poly on my next build. But the rosewood fretboards are oiled (I usually use lemon oil).
i am meaning both and am thinking about a lacquer or varnish of some kind
I use shellac for color and sealing, then 6-10 coats of General Finishes High Performance top coat (satin finish) both applied with a brush. That makes me pretty much of an anomaly here ;-) I have never use lacquer or varnish.
The General Finishes is a polyurethane, so technically it is a varnish. Varnish is not really a product unto itself. It's a catch all term that can be applied to any clear protective top coat. That includes drying oils, polyurethane, even shellac.Quote:
Originally Posted by fender3x
But anyway...
The cheeky answer to the OP's question is "whatever you want". It's mostly personal preference. Different top coats provide different results, so it depends on what you want to achieve. Some prefer a gloss, others satin (I'm in the satin camp). IMO gloss polyurethane feels different than gloss lacquer (ftr I have not tried any satin lacquer).
Another consideration is your work space. If you don't have facilities to do spraying, then you may be limited to hand applied finishes like wipe-on poly, Tru Oil or Tung Oil. TTBOMK there are no lacquers (acrylic or nitrocellulose) that can be applied without spraying by either rattle can or gun.
I would say that the majority of DIY'ers here use oil based or water based poly, or Tru Oil which actually has polyurethane as one of it's ingredients.
So I haven't really provide a definitive answer, but hopefully some information that might help you get there :o
Perhaps not a definitive answer, but useful clarification nonetheless. I sort of assumed there since some products call them selves varnish and some don't, not unlike lacquers, there might be something called "true" varnish like there is something called "true lacquer." It seems that the definition of varnish, however is even broader.
I think what may be most useful is for people to say the actual commercial name of the product they use and the application technique. I think of myself as pretty much of a noob at this, and that would be most helpful to me. Every approach seems to have up and downsides. Mine doesn't take much space or equipment, and is relatively free of harmful chemicals that one might breath or touch. On the other hand, it takes more than a month to cure before I can sand, and requires a ton of sanding as downsides. Upside is that it works in the crazy hot and humid climate of South Florida. Downside...did I mention all the sanding?
the highline guitar guy posted a rant some time ago on his youtube channel about the definition of varnish.Quote:
Originally Posted by fender3x
In the end the choice of finish realy comes down to preference and capability. I'd prefer to use a matt or satin 2k automotive clear, but after the move that is no longer an option.
I reckon that guy would have a lot of things to rant about! I'm not a fan of his channel. To each his own...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit
I hear you about post-move. I no longer have a big detached shed and now have a much smaller workspace. I can still spray but it's not ideal, especially high VOC stuff. I've recently tried water based poly, which very low VOC, but I'm still tossing up whether I like the way it finishes. Definitely different than oil based poly.
For the back of a neck i like to sand it down to a very high grit like 1200 , and leave it without a finish
But i was wondering
Has anyone used LINSEED OIL before?
On a MAPLE FRETBOARD
Would that be ok for the fretboard also ?
Asking because i have some.linseed oil and can use it if its appropriate
1. It is not recommended to leave the neck unfinished. Part of the job of the finish is that it minimises the effect of environmental conditions (ie: humidity) which will cause movement in the timber. For example the neck relief or even worse twisting.
Another downside to leaving the neck unfinished is it will get grungy from sweat and body oil and will not only look dirty but will eventually feel sticky and grabby. At least with even a thin finish, it won't absorb the sweat & oil and can be cleaned.
2. re: Linseed Oil, IF you use it (I wouldn't) it needs to be BOILED linseed oil, not RAW. I have seen too many people end up with a sticky mess of a neck. I know the aforementioned Highline Guitars guy uses it, I've seen results IRL that make me avoid it like the plague. It also takes a long time to cure.
If you want a "natural" neck on the back, my general advice would be to apply at least a thin finish with something like Tru Oil, polyurethane or similar to the back of the neck and go a bit heavier on the fretboard.
1+ and a FWIW... I have found that the most "natural" feeling necks have a satin finish. Glossy necks tend to feel sticky to me. The chemistry of the finish seems less important than the flat-gloss ratio...with flatter finishes feeling more natural.
Ok cool! Thanks so much for the great advice!
I definitely wont be using linseed oil
I have to now get some of this magical TRU OIL everyone seems to love
Cheers mate really appreciate the thoughtful response
Ok cool! Thanks so much for the great advice!Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
I definitely wont be using linseed oil
I have to now get some of this magical TRU OIL everyone seems to love
Cheers mate really appreciate the thoughtful response
It is very hard to tell someone what to do when you do not know their skill base and work environment. All that I am about to say is due to those 2 variables and is how I do it and I will give my personal opinion about what has been said here and in other posts.
Nearly everyone here loves Tru-oil and it is part of a religion. I have used Tru-oil on a guitar as when I first started building PB guitars and was not a really big fan and found my experience was different to those who were imparting their knowledge onto others. Tru-oil is a gunstock finish as it gives the best of 2 worlds. The poly gives you a tough finish and the oil stops showing white marks that you get when the item is marked when using varnish. Some here in the forum believe you need to apply at least 20+ coats to get the finish you need. Seeing as you can get Tru-oil for $40 for 240ml and you can get water-based poly for $30 for 500ml cost does come into play if your applying high number of coats. I applied a single coat and found it was enough, it gave a gloss appearance due to how I finished the wood before applying the oil. I applied it using a lint free cloth and had very little application marks as I apply it fairly wet. I did not like the fact that you had to wait so long for it to dry properly before you can use said guitar. If my memory is correct I waited almost a month before it didn't feel tacky and stopped giving off a smell. Drying time can be affected by the weather so there is that and due to the smell it really isn't something you can hang inside to dry.
I also used it on the neck but found the gloss finish was sticky once you hand got sweaty so I used a fine Scotch-Brite to remove the shine. Gunstocks are rarely in contact with your skin for any length of time, unlike guitars and I saw a Youtube video by Ben Crowe of Crimson Guitars that made me remove the Tru-oil from the neck and replace it with a different product. He said that Tru-oil is not very good for your health and is quite nasty, so I went and found the material safety data sheet to find out what he was talking about. It seems that Tru-oil has some rather nasty elements in it and when applying you HAVE to, not if I feel like it, do it wearing gloves, use a well ventilated area and use a face mask to stop inhalation. Prolonged contact, like when holding it in your hand, is less than desirable as well so I removed the Tru-oil from the neck back to bare wood and applied some kitchen bench top oil finish and used a wax that were all food safe and while not being my favourite finish at least it wont harm my health like Tru-oil can. I don't think anyone here is aware, as I was before watching the video and looking at the MSDS, and is the reason why it is not spoken about. I know there will be someone who says that what I have said is BS but I am not willing to take any chances to impress someone.
I have used Boiled Linseed oil on a neck as well as the body of a guitar and while it was an OK finish I would not use it again for a couple of reasons. One you have to soak your rags in water, as you do with Tru-oil, so they don't combust while the oil dries. Second is the length of time it takes to dry. I want to start playing my guitar within a week or 2 of starting my build so this is not a product that can achieve that time line.
I have used Nitro/car paint as well but you have to have a spray setup which can push the price up and you need the temp to be above, I think 15 degrees with low humidity to reduce orange peel affect which takes a fair bit of sanding to remove. The finish was good but all the stuffing around just wasn't worth it and you could not spray in Winter so almost 4 - 6 months were non guitar building months.
I have used oil based poly but again you have expense as you need a solvent to clean up and there is the smell that has to be considered if you are in a flat or don't have a shed where you can hang it while it dries. It also takes a little bit longer before you can polish it as well as you have to wait for it to completely dry.
Now I use water based poly for a couple of reasons. Firstly you clean up with water, secondly it dries really quick and lastly no smell and can be done all year round as you can do it inside. The only down side is it may raise the wood fibres as it is water based so I normally find 3 applications is more than enough. I use a lint free cloth, like a Chux, as I can get it in a roll really cheap. I apply the first coat fairly thick so when I am finished the surface looks wet and give a light sand with a Scotch-Brite as you can use it over and over, unlike sand paper, and you don't need water, unlike wet and dry paper. This removes any fibres that have been lifted but most of the time due to the fact I use a sanding sealer I find very little have been raised. I apply a second coat, like the first it is fairly thick so as when you look at it it looks wet. Then I give it the same rub with the Scotch-Brite and then a final fairly thin coat just to fill in any sanding marks and that is it. I give it a light rub with a fine Scotch-Brite to remove any dust and then polish. I normally find I can put 2 coats on in a day. Put the third on next day and polish the next day.
I have used most if not all finishes and have also refined my sanding techniques before you add the finish. The only finish I apply to the fret board is Almond oil but any of the store bought fret board finishes are fine but I find almond oil is a cheap alternative. I don't like any body/neck finish on the fret board as over time the finish can be damaged and it makes the guitar look less than desirable and if it starts to look used then you can apply a coat of oil and it looks like new.
Any way that is how I finish my guitars and I am sure you will come up with your own way. There is nothing wrong with being different to everyone else.
+1 well said!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dikkybee007
I'm in the process of refinishing a Chinese Squire neck for an offset tele (back and fretboard). I applied one coat of amber shellac to darken the bare maple. Thin amber shellac for a more subtle color if you want to keep it light. This afternoon I'll be spraying the Watco lacquer that I had on hand before starting this project.
Please note, this is my first diy guitar project though I've done other wood finishing before. Will update with my thoughts on the Watco in a few weeks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dikkybee007
WOW that sure is a lot of words mate
Sounds like youve got a shit load of experience building guitars. And yes whenever something has a lot of hype around it i get skeptical , i kind of decided i woukd use only locally available , affordable materials in this project , so instead of ordering 100ml of tru oil for like $50 i went to my local BunningsAND BOUGHT THIS TO TRY
it seems to have similar ingredients to tru oil except the proce is $19 for a litre
Main ingredient is boiles linseed oil and a solvent like turpentine to help it penetrate and dry faster
I will use this and report back on if its good or not
Might be a great alternative for others in future
Attachment 44449
Try and get a piece of pine that has roughly the same grain as your maple but obviously not as hard but cheaper and try a test application to see how it dries and if it changes the colour of the wood. If it turns out darker or no change at all. Then once it is dry rub your hand along it and see how it feels in your hand. Hold it in your hand and see if it gets sticky or oily with the heat of your hand. If it leaves a oily feeling or residue and see if your hand will glide along it without sticking.
The other thing that I forgot to mention about water based finishes are they are self levelling so if you were to have a slightly open grain it will fill any slight wood grain features unlike paints.
What ever you can get will be fine as long as you figure out how to apply it before you put it on the guitar as I found out in the early days. I am lazy and only want to apply finish once and in the early days my finishes were less than perfect. I thought appearance was important, and it is, but after seeing some artists guitars, SRV, Stings bass, I thought as long as it is sealed and stops the body from being affected by moisture I was fine with it.
I still try to achieve the best I can but seeing as you have to work with what you have then you can always cut yourself some slack. Unless you have the perfect setup and skill base then as long as the guitar plays its good. I have said before, guitars are for playing, not displaying. If I want something that looks good on a wall I will get a picture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dikkybee007
Thanks for the fantastic advuce my friend! I will test it on some scrap timber as you suggest :)
Cheers mate!
Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I just wanted to clarify. I'm about to do my first maple fretboard, all my previous ones were rosewood or african blackwood. Will my trusty Feast Watson wipe on poly do the job on the fretboard? It may or may not have been mentioned, I don't know if its classed as water based or whatever, probably should learn, I just know I have some and would prefer to use it, as I don't have a place to spray things.
I think the FW wipe on poly should be fine for a maple fretboard. Actually, I'm sure any hard-wearing finish is fine.
I have used Tru-oil on a number of maple fretboards, and have sprayed Cabot's water-based poly on a bass. BTW, the sprayed poly was actually quite difficult to get off the frets afterwards. Maybe thinly wipe on the poly and avoid the frets where possible!
I have successfully used tru-oil and FW Scandinavian oil on maple necks and boards.
Four coats tends to give a nice satin finish.
Is your wipe on poly gloss or satin? The gloss can be a bit grippy on the back of the neck.
We don't have Feast Watson here in the US, but I looked at on the website. It's a gloss, which a lot of folks don't like on the back of the neck, because it tends to feel sticky, as Colin mentioned, so your thumb doesn't slide over it as nicely as with a satin finish. On the product data sheet it says that it's "not for high traffic areas"... that may mean that it is not terribly hard or resistant. Maybe not ideal for a fretboard that will have lots of contact with abrasive strings... It is definitely oil solvent based, rather than water based. Mostly Naphta-ish solvents. Also you know the product and how it goes on, so that's a plus. You could use it. But it's maybe not ideal.Quote:
Originally Posted by pr0jekt
I have the satin version, and have been able to get it to a glossy finish on some strat bodies, so best of both world I suppose. It is very nice on the back of the necks I've made, I just do 3 to 5 thin coats, the first applied with 600 grit sandpaper for grain filling, thanks to Brad Angrove for that tip. It's good to hear I don't need to use nitro or lacquer :) Thanks guys