Well folks, my sanity has finally snapped. I have gathered enough scrap timber from work (they recently had a pallet of maple delivered... I wanted to cry).
It's going to be a short scale bass.
First draft, it is a work in progress:
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Well folks, my sanity has finally snapped. I have gathered enough scrap timber from work (they recently had a pallet of maple delivered... I wanted to cry).
It's going to be a short scale bass.
First draft, it is a work in progress:
Great project Rabbit. The draft looks good!
There has definitely not been enough axes done lately.
Thanx trevor :)
This was created from a cartoon image and scaled up to fit a 30 inch scale. I will be changing the neck profile, since a parallel string spacing will be a bit too close together. I need to get a couple of '51 style p-bass pickups, and use those and a nut width corresponding to my violin bass.The pups that show up in the toon show 4 pole pieces, hence the '51 fender style pups. Sadly this won't be a very playable instrament. The neck length would suggest a 24 fret instrament, however I will have to skip half the frets, since it's a 13 fret instrument. This is another reason why I am using scrap timber. Since it will be painted red... *all* of it, no one will see the laminated maple neck through or the laminated black walnut wings (walnut is also fairly light weight)
I will also be making a stainless bridge. Once I have the pups I can establish the string spacing for the bridge.
I'm also after two sets of the '51 style p-bass pups, for two Dusty Hill inspired Tele basses. Seymour Duncan have their quarter pounder, which looks great! But about $200 from a local supplier, or Ebay is down to $160 sent from the USA - both a bit pricey for me. So, I'm hoping for a better option!
The SDs are nice, but for this build, a bit too nice and I already blew way too much on the pups for the other builds (the soapbars for the explorer bass were about $360 a pop I think, and the EMG Riptides weren't exacly cheap either). I ordered some cheap pups from china. I'm not expecting much outta them, but then I'm not expecting much outta a 13 fret bass with half the frets missing either!
Does it really only need to have the 13 frets? I would try to make it playable and as close as possible to the artwork rather than the other way! But, this is your build and your choice - and it is going to be fun to watch.
Trevor: it wouldn't be Marceline the vampire princess's battle axe bass with a different number of frets.
Whoops. I had to google it, but now I understand!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit
Hmm.. I see a pattern emerging..."inspired by"Gene Simmons' axe bass, closish copy of Steve Harris's Lado Unicorn bass, replica of Cliff Burton's Ric, and now a replicaish of a cartoon instrument...
Ha ha. I think the pattern is:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit
You see it, You like it, You say "I can build that", and You build it! Great.
Or that is what I do. I have a folder containing pictures of guitars I would love to have. Sadly, there is a large number of pictures! :cool:
My pickups arrived, but it looks like the pole pieces are a lot further apart that I expected. the spacing is even too far for my 34 inch basses, unless used as a bridge pickup. The upshot is that I will be de-constructing them, making new bobbins and re-winding.
I have however done the base blank for the fret board.:
https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds
I used the CNC router at the mens shed to mark the fret slots and centre line. Since you have to baby sit the machine while it does it's thing I had Rush bluetoothing into my earmuffs
To cut to final depth I used this contraption:
https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds
Using the violin bass as a template for string spacing at the nut and bridge I did a bit of a mock up with twine, put a pice of flat aluminium under the twine where the pickup goes, and sprayed some black paint over the strings and aluminium:
https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds
I used this to create a file for the CNC to carve out the flatwork from some rock maple I thinned down with the correct spacing for the pole pieces. Since the wire on the pickups I bought was so thin, I broke it several times trying to unwind it. The upshot being that rather than buying cheap pickups, I ended up with expensive pole pieces :rolleyes:.
Since I kept breaking the wire, I can't re-use the windings. It appears to be 42 AWG based on the micrometer reading.I ordered some wire, thinking 1km should be enough. I should have looked up the resistance first :\ . Turns out 1km aint enough for 1 pup, let alone 2!. Now this instrument will probably be for the most part a wall hanger, so details like how the thing sounds probably don't matter. But for some sick reason I felt compelled to do a little research on what the specs for the '51 telebass pups were..
Next step will probably be a mix of working on the fretboard and building a winder for the pups. My partner in crime at the shed seemed enthusiastic at the prospect of me building something so he can use it to wind pups for his 6 strings.
With a bigger budget I'd love to explore the differences between pups with the same resistance but with different number of turns. Like because the pole pieces are closer together, the new pups will have more turns, since each turn will be shorter than the pups I had bought.
I love the fret sawing contraption - it looks great.
Also, shame about the pup wire breaking! I had not given it much thought- but more than 1 km of wire! Wow.
Thanx :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Davies
Yeh, enamelled copper wire specs resistance per km. 42 AWG specs out at about 5.8k/km... which is about the spec for the original '51 pups. Modern replacements are about 6k for the cheap Chinese ones and 7k for some of the others. In my case I have made the first spindle. it's a bit wider than the original and because the pole pieces are closer a bit closer together. Should hold bout the same as the original. I'm just going to stuff as much on as it will hold and do the same number of turns for the second one.
The motor and speed controller for the winder have arrived, the counter is in the country, as is the 3.5km of wire. Should have the winder made some time in the next two weeks. Hehe any bets on how many winds I mange to get before I put too much tension on the wire or wind too fast and snap the wire?
It's been a while since I last posted. I'm currently working on making a new jig to radius fretboards, but as with most of my endevours, it tends to be akin to "there was an old lady who swallowed a fly".....
As for the pups, I used the CNC router at the Men's Shed to make some of these:
https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds
it wasn't until I had assembled two with the pole pieces, that I realised... "um... dood....how am I supposed to mount these?" These are a custom size, so unlike the strat/jazz pups I pictured in my head, there is no cover with mounting holes! So I made a couple of these:
https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds
I didn't do the mounting holes cause I don't know what size screws I'm gunna use. The 5mm hole in the centre is an index hole. After marking the centre of the underside of the pup flatwork I glued this new piece to the underside of the pup.
I also made a winding machine:
https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds
https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds
This is the Mk1 version. It's a little rudimentary but it should do the job. It uses a magnetic sensor to count the number of winds (the white display at the top). When I turned it manually the counter worked just fine but stopped working with the motor running. At first I thought it wasn't fast enough to keep up[ with the rotations, but in the end I worked out the motor's magnetic field was interfering. When I re-positioned the sensor just a smidge it worked fine, si I glued in a baffle between the motor and the sensor just to be sure.
I recently was assessed to use the metal work lathe at the Men's Shed, so I was able to use that to make the part to connect the shaft of the motor to the winding wheel. I also machined a part to epoxy into the part with a short 5mm shaft to centre the pup spindle, which is attached with double sided tape.
I use a couple of nuts bored out to 1/4in on a 1/4 rod to set the width of the wire path to the boundaries of the inside of the spindle so I can apply tension and move the wire from side to side as the spindle turns. I believe they call that scatter winding. If I ever do a Mk2 it would have a guide that moved the wire from side to side automatically, much like the fishing line on a bait caster reel.
Setting the speed to about 10% seems like a nice comfortable wind speed. I think I worked out that it will take me about half an hour per pup to wind.
The speed controller has a nasty action where it starts the motor as soon as you connect power. There is a switch on it but that's connected to the electronics so you can't turn it off till after it's powered. I put switch between it and the motor so that you can mechanically switch it off before you supply the controller. Motor direction is also controlled by this switch, just in case it works and at some point it gets used to make a humbucker.
That's an impressive machine. You'll be able to open your own custom pickup shop. No one can accuse you of not taking this "scratch build" thing seriously!
Wow. I'm super impressed with the winding machine as well. This looks great! Definitely next level for scratchies.
What voltage is this running on?
Thanx trevor and fender3x :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Davies
Trevor, it runs off a 12v power supply. I picked a motor limited to a max of 6000rpm (these suckers can do over 20k rpm unrestricted.)
I found that 8% power is enough to turn the winder with an initial nudge, 9 and it will move on it's own from a standing start. Speaking of witch, with a few manual turns and 10000 turns later, I ended up with this:
https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds
I was using my fingers as both tensioner and leveler. I would get a few winds by hand just to secure the wire, then start at 8% power and slowly build to 17%. I didn't dare go faster for fear of snapping the wire...pretty sure with a tensioner and experience the process would tolerate double the speed. I got about 500 winds my first attempt before pinching too hard and snapping the wire. I got 1000 turns on the sencond try, but the wire got caught on a rough spot on the lip of the wire roll. 3rd time was the charm.
The pup wiring looks great. Really love the blue enamel coating!
So, is this going to lead a new business venture? And where do I place my order?
Hehe no, this is just me being batsh*t crazy and deciding that since no one makes 4 pole pups for the string spacing of the Adventure Time axe bass, I was going to have to make them myself. I'm also making a bridge for the same reason. A brass nut has started being formed. the strings and the tuners will be the only thing on this not bespoke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Davies
After watching all 10 seasons of Adventure Time "for research purposes", I did not notice any physical frets in side profile. Now I know, it's from a cartoon...a very stylised cartoon, but....if they can manage to show that Marceline is ambidextrous by playing the bass both right and left handed, and flipping the side the controls are on. Given that attention to detail and she *is* a musician, she would not play an instrument that makes no sense. In addition her fingering suggests that perhaps the instrument is actually fretless, and the 13 frets are just markings.
So.. after I get the fretboard radiused I'll fill in the fret slots with black epoxy and it will be a fretless small scale bass.
You are a better man than I. Here's my solution to the string spacing conundrum...
Attachment 44304
I often think that some of the most interesting builds result, at least partially, from problem solving. You have taken that to the next level ;-)
fender3x: yeh...if I wasn't so anal about the visual accuracy I too would have gone with a similar single coil version.
Edit: After soldering the coil to the leads there was a slight mishap, and I had to remove the epoxy I used to anchor the leads on one lead and re-solder since the multimeter was showing an open circuit. After managing to connect the coil , it's not quite as tidy, but there wasn't enough slack in the coil (I had used some CA glue to stop the end of the coil from moving, or I would have removed half a wind)
The pup weighs in at 6.7k.... I was hoping for better than 7k, but it's still fractionally hotter than the '51 Fender pups which were about 5.8k. There will be two of these and I haven't thought far enough ahead to work out if the two together sharing the same tone and volume will result on more volume. Simon would know.
I think it should be louder if you wire them in series. Are you going to do a reverse wind on #2 to make it humbucking?
Sent from my LE2125 using Tapatalk
No, I had thought about it, but all the images I have seen show a gap between coils, two distinct pups.Quote:
Originally Posted by fender3x
I have already wound the second pup. i won't worry about it this time, but in future I will have to use a different material. Maple at 1.5mm is too flexible and the top of the pup is curved up. It's more pronounced on the second one. I think something like Ironbark or box brush would fare better, maybe gidgee,
This time I timed it. I took it up to 17% and with breaks to check progress it took 15 mins. the whole thing starts to vibrate if I go much past about 20% power.
I've orderd some 44AWG just to see if I can wind it without snapping it. It will be a bit of an experiment. Have no idea how it will sound.
It may still work. I think all you really need to do is turn the pickup upside down. So with one pup the North poles are facing the strings and on the other the South poles are facing the strings. I have just been doing a little recon on this because I have a couple of Dano pickups on a bass. The traditional "both on" setting on them is series, which is definitely louder than either neck or bridge pup alone.
I have them off the bass at the moment while it's being refinished...and found a mod on-line for getting them to be humbucking in series.
http://dennysguitars.homestead.com/D...ml#anchor_1034
Don't follow the bizarre Dano wiring chart...provided for the explanation only ;-)
fender3x: that looks way too busy for me. too many pots and switches. One volume. one tone, no switches, that's it. and reversing poles means turning the whole thing upside down and the spindle is designed to be mounted at the bottom. Humbucking is not required.. probably be a wall decoration for the most part.
I know what you mean. I built the wiring harness, for a lipstick tube pickup bass and it was a bear. I am in the process of a refinish and have been toying with the idea of doing the humbucking mod...but it would involve using a heat gun to disassemble the pickup...and it seems like more trouble than it's worth. It's only really a problem if you have a bad buzz. And, of course, it's never a problem when the bass is hanging on the wall ;-)
Aaaaaand.....distortion fixes everything ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by fender3x
In the process of ripping off the basic design of the mojotone tensioner. Winding those first two pups has been good experience but I'm still not happy with the way the flat work on the top flexes up so I'm going to make more pups with probably iron bark or spotted gum instead of the maple.still not sure what specs I'll use for the 44 AGW experiment.
You may find that you have a market. It seems to me that there is a huge interest these days in the '51 p-bass type pups. It used to be that you needed to pay a fortune for them. These days Sentell and Benson both have hand wound '51 pickups that won't require refinancing your house. Like you, Benson is using interesting woods in for their bobbins. Sentell has a huge range of custom and old style pickups. Don't know if anyone is doing this kind of thing in AUS...but it would make one heck of an upgrade option for PB kits.
Kinda odd. Personally I prefer the split type of p-bass pups. Maybe people are digging the single coil sound. My partner in crime, the guy who does mostly Les Paul style instraments did mention a guy here in Aus that does hand wound pups, but I think they are spendy.
I have some 2mm metal grommets ontheir way. I'm hoping for a neater result for joining and anchoring the leads to the coil. Even though I won't be using the two pups I have wound so far, I can use the second one to try this idea out.
I don't disagree. But Sting and Dusty Hill both liked the older style and they seem to be resurging in popularity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit
Sent from my LE2125 using Tapatalk
OK, second attempt at this post, first one I got to the end, and had a brain fart, I clicked "+ Reply to Thread" instead of "Post Quick Reply", and the whole post vanished! Lucky when I came back and tried again it asked me if I wanted to restore.
More minor progress on the pickup front.
This is a Mojotone hand tensioner used to put tension on the coil wire while it's being wound:
https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds
Sorry if the picture is kinda tiny. And here is what I came up with. Not as elegant, but functional:
https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds
https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds
I used a mig tip designed for 0.6mm wire and put a taper on it to make it look pretty. I figured that compared to the 0.06mm wire used to wind the pups, 0.6mm should be big enough to drive a bus through. No such luck. There is a video on how to load the mojo tone tool that makes it seem so easy, but i found I couldn't thread the wire through, it is so flimsy it kept bending before it got half way through. In the end I had to thread some 0.4mm wire I happen to have and solder the end of the coil wire to it and pull that through.
Some 2mm eyelet/grommets came so I was able to drill holes and install two of them on the second pup to see if that gave me a neater way to connect the coil to the leads and anchor them.
Here's the connection of the first pup without them. I used 5min epoxy to anchor the leads:
https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds
And this is the second one with the grommets:
https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds
See if you can guess which grommet was installed first :\
I won't be using these pups because I'm not happy with the way the top bowed up instead of staying flat. I'm going to try 2mm thick Ironbark.It's all been a learning experience.
What split on you? The closest that I have come to making the wood bass that you have are pickup rings that I made out of maple. Knowing what I know now, I would probably make them out of a softer wood. Maple was hard to sand to remove material and also had a high propensity to split...much like at your eyelet. I mention this because of the mention of Ironwood... We don't have that here in Florida so I had to look it up. Wow! that stuff is hard...like somewhere between Brazilian and Honduran rosewood hard. It looks like it might make a harder version of a maple fingerboard...A light fingerboard over a mahogany neck would look very cool...but I digress... Is there an advantage to using a very hard wood for the base of the pickup rather than an easier to work wood?
In any case...this is looking more and more like an Aussie Boutique pickup ;-)
hehe yeh, Australian hardwords kinda redefine "hard"....the kinda thing you use to hammer in nails when you don't have a hammer ') I'm using red ironbark for one of the fretboards. the axe will be spotted gum.Quote:
Originally Posted by fender3x
the advantage of using the ironbark wasn't about the base, although as a single layer bobbin base it would also apply, but it's stiffness I'm after. The so called rock maple bent up from the pressure of the winds in the coil.
The grommets look really neat - shame about the split!
Luckily I'm making new pups so i't no big deal, but a valuable learning experience. I used an imperial drill that gave a snug fit.I think using a slightly larger hole will give the grommet room for expansion. The other mistake I made with the first of those two grommets was belting the installation tool too hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Davies
Edit: to avoid a double post , a quick update. I wound a test pup using red ironbark flatwork. Wasn't sure if I had enough wire left. Turns out that I did and the ironbark worked out. I also tried using a slightly larger drill to install a couple of rivets/grommets. That also worked , no splitting.
Well it's been a while, but I have been working on way too many other projects, some of which overlap, some of which are unrelated to guitar building.
I made new bobbins for the axe.They are alnico v pole pieces and the poles are reversed between each bobbin. The stuff between pole pieces is epoxy because wax just runs out when I pot them.
https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds
These wont be true humbuckers as the windings will be scatterwound . there will be a 10mm gap between pups. I also stained the upper flatwork black because I had recollection of them being black with the silver pole pieces. Turns out that was wrong, and I am going to have to make silver covers. I did a test to see if I could weld the 0.25mm stainless sheet. My welder stops at 10amp as a min and that's not low enough. My other options are silver braze, or to try making a plug and form and try to press them. not sure how that will go without crinkling the curves.
I will also have to play around with cams on my neck carving jig to get the profile correct for the shorter, narrower neck.
I am really impressed with what you are able to fabricate. Shaping up to be one of the coolest and scratchiest of builds ;-)
I keep thinking that you've built all the equipment, so if you like doing this, I am sure there's a market
Nice work there Rabbit, interesting way to go for customising. Refining a technique is one of the most satisfying outcomes doing this sort of thing. Keep the posts coming, I'm interested in the end results.