First build JMA-1

Hi all,

Just waiting for my first kit to arrive - JMA-1. Planning on finishing the kit for my son as a Christmas present.

While I waiting for the delivery hoping to get some advice from the experts on finishes for the guitar.

My son has been asking for an electric similar to the Kurt Mustang from Smells Like Teen Spirit. The competition Lake Placid Blue guitar like the one in the attached images.


Attachment 43618

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To start with I was hoping for advice on the right colours and where to source them?

As far as I can tell the Lake Placid Blue is a metallic version of the Ditlzer PPG paint code 11711, I haven't a clue where to get it though.

Also, I have no idea what the competition stripe colour would be.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

No doubt once it all arrives I will be back seeking more advice!

Thanks in advance,
J

So the kit should be arriving in a day or so.

I have been to check out Supercheap Auto and they can make up the paint using the GM code 122.

When I was looking at it though it comes out a bit more blue than the images - I suspect Fender used a different clear from what I understand.

Does anyone have experience using the Supercheap spray cans with a poly coat? I was debating applying something like Cabot Cabothane clear over the top, hoping it added a slight yellow tinge to the blue.

Any guidance would be appreciated.

Also, when looking at the guides for the spray cans, it looks like the recommend waiting 60 days post clear before applying any wax etc to the paint. I suppose this is to ensure the paint has fully flashed - If I was to use a poly as a clear instead of the Supercheap Colorspec clear coat, would I need to wait 60 days between spraying and applying the poly?

Cheers,
J

Hi jtimms.

I'll just point out a few bits re: your questions.

If you're spraying acrylic lacquer for the colour base coat, you can't put Cabot polyurethane over it. They are incompatible products*. You will need to apply an acrylic lacquer clear for the top coat, and yes, you will need to (or should) wait 3-4 weeks before wet sanding, polishing etc. You will definitely have some amount of "orange peel" from spraying that will require levelling by sanding/wet sanding.

As for SCA clear, I have only used their tinned version for spray gun and had no issues with it, but TTBOMK others have had good results with the rattle cans. FWIW before I switched to a gun, I preferred Septone brand (also at SCA) over the Duplicolor clear.

*FYI, the "poly" finish you see advertised on mass-produced brand name guitars is a very different material than what you buy at Bunnings. It is generally a 2-pack product not a single-pack like the Cabots, and if just labelled "poly" in the description or specs, it could be a polyurethane OR a polyester (similar but different).

Sorry for the brief reply. I'm away on holiday and not doing much social atm. I'm sure one of the other members will reply with more explicit guidance and advice.

Cheers

Thanks McCreed, appreciate the advice!

I think the original Lake Placid Blue was covered in a nitro clear (I said poly...) which added a slight yellowing to the LPB leaving it with a slight green tinge. Do you know if there is clear that I could use that might have a similar effect that would work with the SCA paint?

The kit arrived this afternoon, unboxing was exciting.

Couple of minor issues I came across:

1) The neck appears to have the head stock alread cut - Not blank as expected.

2) The pickgaurd isn't as clean along the edges as I expected, but thats fine I guess as I was going to cut a diffent colour anyway.

I had a query about the neck pocket - I tried to get a photo of the neck and body interface, but it was a little challenging. How close should the radius on the bottom of the neck match the body?

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The neck in this kit looks to be sitting on the corners only - Is this normal?

Cheers,
J

I’m keen to get into the prepping and painting worried I have now left it too late for Xmas..

For the body it’s straight forward, primer, base and clear.

For the neck I’d like some advice if possible. The head stock will have a colour applied to the front, but the back and sides I was planning for a natural finish.

Does anyone have any advice as to the suitability to apply the colorspec clear coat direct to wood?

Alternatively, is there a wood product that someone can recommend that will go over the spray can paint well?

Additionally, will I need to apply a pore filler prior to any spraying and if so can someone recommended a product?

Cheers,
J

I've almost no experience with acrylic sprays, so can't really comment, but the Colorspec 2k clear coat info doesn't give it as suitable for wood (though they may just have thought it wouldn't be used on wood so didn't list it). But I know others have used acrylic clears on necks, so it might be OK. It shouldn't sink much into a maple neck. Or you may need to apply a normal 1K acrylic coat first. I just don't know.

The ash will need pore filling a sit's an open-pore wood. The maple neck won't. Timbermate is the pore filler that's most commonly used here, but being water-based, it can shrink, especially if you don't leave it fora few weeks to shrink naturally before sanding back and continuing to paint. But I'm not sure what other pore fillers would work well. As you are painting it, you could try a UV curing resin to seal the wood as that shouldn't shrink - plus it only takes a few minutes in sunlight to harden fully.

The end of the neck should ideally match the curve of the neck pocket, so if there's a big gap as it's only touching at the corners, I'd certainly work on the end of the neck with a file. I've used chalk on the pocket walls before. Push the neck in, and where there's chalk, it's touching, so you need to file off those bits. Repeat until you've got chalk over most of the end of the neck. You'll never get a perfect fit (unless CNC machinery was used to rout out both the neck and the pocket, and the Chinese factories don't use CNC on the kits). As it's a 22-fret neck, it's got that overhang which will hide any small gaps - which will be between the scratchplate and the neck, rather than the body and neck.

The original 'clear' nitro finish of the 50s and early 60s was slightly amber in tint, and yellowed more with exposure to UV (many of the first 'TV yellow' LP Jrs had a white base coat, it was the lacquer that made them look yellow). Modern clear nitrocellulose lacquer is still very slightly amber tinted, but far less so than the earlier stuff and far more stable under UV.

So the best way to get an 'aged clear' finish is to use a light amber tinted lacquer, followed by some clear coats for protection (you could just use tinted amber for all the coats but it would probably end up too dark/yellow). Tinted amber is easy to obtain in spray can nitro, but not in acrylic. You might fine somewhere that will make up a light amber tinted clear for you (I know a lot of Supercheap stores have a custom paint mixing service - but I don't know if that applies to clears), or if you have a spray gun, you can get tints for acrylic lacquers that you add yourself.

The SCA website does not say if the Colorspec is Acrylic Enamel or Acrylic Lacquer (and they don't provide any MSDS online). Nor am I certain that the two are compatible, but my gut tells me that I would not put Acrylic Lacquer over Enamel or vice versa. Pretty sure they have different solvents which is a potential problem.

(Maybe Phrozin will chime in with more detailed expertise???)

I can say from personal experience that clear acrylic lacquer can absolutely be applied onto timber. I also know that the Duplicolor range of auto paints are a single pack acrylic lacquer, and I have applied both Septone Clear Coat and SCA's Acrylic Lacquer Clear Coat over the Duplicolor bases without issue (other than operator error :o)

Personally I prefer polyurethane (satin) for my necks over any type of lacquer. It just feels better to me. Been strictly using poly on necks for 3 of 4 years now. I have even gone so far as to strip a lacquered neck and re-spray it with polyurethane.

As for tinting on a maple neck, I have never seen a tinted Acrylic Lacquer in a rattle can, only Nitrocellulose. Not saying it doesn't exist, just not seen it before.
If using clear acrylic or polyurethane from a rattle can, you can achieve an amber tint one of two ways. You can lightly stain the maple, or apply a number of coats of shellac (naturally amber coloured) then apply the clear over the shellac.

I will caution that applying stain to the maple first can result in an uneven colouring, but not always.

Thanks McCreed and Simon,

The gap at the neck pocket is about 2-3mm, but its hidden by the fret board so a little hard to see. PBG said it should be fine as is, but I think I will have a crack at reshaping the neck to fit the pocket over the weekend. With this, you would reshape the neck to fit the pocket right?

I had a chat to the tech support at Colorspec today. He was very helpful.

To paint the body, he recommended prepping the body as for any wood (grain filling etc), followed by a normal water based wood primer - Roller onto the body. Followed by sanding smooth to about 400 grit. The sanding sounds like fun...

After than, a light coat of their primer, slight rub with 600 grit, base coat (2-3 coats) and clear. He recommended no more than about 6 coats of clear total. He said 4 coats should come up nicely, but if more was desired a slight rub back after 4 coats with 1500 grit before a max of 2 more clear coats. It seemed to me he was more concerned around their clear adding a slight yellow tinge to the paint if too many layers were added - Maybe this is something I am after.. :)

Im guessing that I will need to leave a week or two after grain filling before priming, then another week or two after priming before spraying to make sure there is no water trapped in the paint / wood - Would that be about right?

For the headstock, he said their clear SHOULD bond to the bare wood, but if it was his project he wouldn't attempt it.

He recommended starting with normal water based or acrylic wood lacquer on the back of the neck, once that has been applied then having a go at the front of the headstock in their base / clear system (per above). For the joint of the lacquer and their clear, he said after the colour has been applied to create a false edge so their clear coat overlaps the lacquer which should bond well and can be polished back to form an invisble line.

@McCreed I know I have seen it in one of your previous posts, but can acrylic lacquer over the top of a poly clear? Mainly just looking at the joint between the front face of the headstock and the natural finish on the back and sides.

Thanks,
J

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jtimms

The gap at the neck pocket is about 2-3mm, but its hidden by the fret board so a little hard to see. PBG said it should be fine as is, but I think I will have a crack at reshaping the neck to fit the pocket over the weekend. With this, you would reshape the neck to fit the pocket right?

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As there's no one at PBG (according to PBG) who actually builds guitars (or engages with customers on this forum), or is able to check kits before they go out with obvious faults, I'd take that comment with a pinch of salt.

You also have to consider the scale length issue. If the neck is basically moved back 2-3mm from the end of the pocket, then the bridge saddles have to move the same amount further forwards. You'll have to see if this works with the bridge supplied. The bridge post holes are pre-drilled, so you are reliant on the neck being set the right distance from the bridge.

You'll need to check on your kit what the best neck position is. Wrap tape around the posts so they fit securely in the holes without fitting the post inserts, then with the neck in position, measure the distance from the nut high E slot to the high E bridge saddle (at the point the string will stop contacting the saddle) with the saddle set almost all the way forwards. Use a metal rule (not a tape) to measure the scale length. If it's longer than 25.5" (647.7mm), then you'll definitely need to round the end of the neck heel so it fits in the pocket properly and so moves the neck nearer the bridge. If it's that distance or a bit shorter, then you're OK.

Yeah, I wasn’t overly convinced with the advice from PBG.

Checked the scale length, definitely out by 2-3mm.

Slowly working in the neck corners when the little one heads out with the boss. So far looks like the neck has moved forward about a mm or so. Once I get it roughly flush I’ll post some photos of the sanded areas of the neck.

So I have the neck fitting the pocket pretty much flush now.

When I rechecked the string to neck alignment I’ma little confused.

The high e is parallel with the neck, but the low e is not.

The low e sits about 0.5mm further away from the neck edge at the 17th feet when compared to the first fret.

Any advice on needing to fix this or just leave it as is?

Hi jtimms,

I don't think 0.5 mm is a concern. I would leave as is!

Do the middle strings appear symmetrical about the fret dots and the pickup poles?

You can normally fix small string alignment issues when assembled by loosening the neck screws, pulling on the neck to get better alignment and then tightening the screws up again. You only need 0.25mm of sideways movement to get the strings the same distance from the edge at the 17th fret.

Don’t worry about it too much until it’s all assembled as temporary arrangements at the bridge may also be affecting things and the posts could be slightly out and the bridge may sit differently against them when fully strung up and under tension.

I don’t think I’ve mentioned that if they aren’t already like it, drill out the neck screw holes in the body so they are the same diameter as the screws. This allows the screws to tightly pull the neck to the body. If the screws bite into the body, then they can be pulked against the neck plate and stop turning before the pointy end has fully screwed into the neck.

If the screws can turn freely in the body holes, then you know the neck is tight when the screws stop turning. This goes for any screw joint where you are joining two bits of wood together. In soft wood like pine, your standard coarse pitch wood screw from a DIY store will probably pull the screw head into the wood as you turn rather than bind, so you get a decent join, but with harder wood that won’t happen, or when you’ve got washers or plates involved.

Thanks both,
I was hoping the string was just a dry fit issue - always helps to have someone support it!
I’ll fix up the body neck holes when I get round to drilling the mounting holes in the neck, hopefully later this week.
Cheers
J

So just a couple of photos for an update, more for myself than anything else.

The neck corners were rounded slightly, leaving the flat surfaces alone as far as possible. I'd swear the radius hadn't been changed, but obviously enough to get the neck pretty much flush with the neck pocket.

Attachment 43711
Attachment 43712

The body and neck have been sanded to 240 grit.

The body is ready (I think) for grain filling.

The neck has been masked and ready for the poly to go on the exposed areas. Once I have built that up a bit, not really sure how many coats to apply.. i will let it cure for a few weeks before masking the back and painting the head stock.

Attachment 43713
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I don't know, the more I look at it, the more I like the grain pattern, but the boss wants it to look like Kurt's guitar.. So thats what it ill end up as.. I hope..

Hi all,

A question about pilot holes. No doubt I’m over thinking it..

I drilled the neck mount pilot holes yesterday, a little smaller than the screw shank diameter - also widened the body mount holes as suggested by Simon.

Just wondering if there was guidance from the brains trust about the right size for the pilot holes

I found conflicting info on you tube, some saying the diameter should be the same as the shank, others saying slightly smaller than the shank diameter..

I went slightly smaller as you can always widen the diameter later, but now I’m worried about splitting the neck when I eventually get to screwing it to the body.

Cheers,
J

Hi jtimms

I have only done a few so I may not be the best. I was told about 1/8 inch. I use 3mm or 3.2mm and it seems to work. I put a bit of bees wax on end of the screw. Screw in a bit then back off slightly, and repeat until finished. I am not sure if the backing off is needed but I was told to once so it has become a habit. I have also heard of people wicking a little superglue into the neck hole afterwards but I have not tried this.

Any pilot hole is better than no pilot hole. Shank diameter is generally what I try and achieve, so that only the thread itself is biting into the wood, but very slightly smaller is also OK, as it's often impossible to match the shank diameter exactly. Slightly smaller is better than slightly bigger.

Certainly use beeswax or candle wax on the end of the screw, it makes it a lot easier to screw in and also to remove.

Unless you've got a worn screw hole, I wouldn't use superglue on it, especially not with the screw in place.

When replacing screws after removing them, always run the screw backwards first and you'll feel it drop into the cut thread. Then screw from there. If you just put the screw straight in and start turning, you are at risk of cutting a new thread into the wood. You then start to weaken the wood around the screw hole and after a few times, you may not be able to get the screw really tight again.

Certainly if the screw is a tight fit in the pilot hole, backing off a bit then screwing in a bit allows your hand to generate a bit more torque on the screw as the screw can now move easily to start with as it passes through the cut thread before hitting the straight wood. This can be useful in hard woods like maple, even with the correct sized pilot hole, though you probably don't need to if the screw is going in easily.

Thanks both,

I will widen the holes slightly before attempting to secure the neck - From memory I went about 2.5mm width, but the shank size was 4mm..

Again more for my records, the body has had grain filler applied, then sanded back to 240grit - Felt amazing and smooth, but when I wsa cleaning the dust off I found the front face had a fair bit of raised grain - So will have a second attempt at filling the front.

The back and sides were great though, so they will only have one grain fill.

Attachment 43717
Attachment 43718

I have put down three coats of brushed poly on the back of the neck and it looks a feels great.

Will probably add at least one more later tonight.

Attachment 43719

Is there a concensus on the minimum number of coats of poly on a guitar neck?

Also, ill need to mask the back of the neck before I can paint the front of the headstock. Does anyone know how long I will need to leave it before it is safe to apply masking tape?

Cheers,
J

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jtimms

I’m keen to get into the prepping and painting worried I have now left it too late for Xmas..

For the body it’s straight forward, primer, base and clear.

For the neck I’d like some advice if possible. The head stock will have a colour applied to the front, but the back and sides I was planning for a natural finish.

Does anyone have any advice as to the suitability to apply the colorspec clear coat direct to wood?

Alternatively, is there a wood product that someone can recommend that will go over the spray can paint well?

Additionally, will I need to apply a pore filler prior to any spraying and if so can someone recommended a product?

Cheers,
J

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Hi there Jtimms colour spec is an acrylic-based lacquer it's fine on wood I've used it a couple of times its no better than SCA acrylic lacquer and SCA is my go-to clear, I have used it on every wood you will find a guitar body or neck, over a fender based maple neck you can spray it on without any other paints or wood binder, just sand it with a 220grit sandpaper and coat it, you can put acrylic lacquer over anything from dyes to stains to sanding sealer, paint or candys

on a body just stain or dye then use sanding sealer (wood binder) 2 - 3 coats over your dye/stain sand it back with 220grit aluminium oxide paper till flat don't rub through which you won't if you have flattened the body before refinishing it which you wont if you use a block and clear it with 6-8 coats then sand with 600grit wet & dry then 4 more coats let dry for a week then sand it with 800-1200-2000grit in that order and polish it just remember don't sand anything without a sanding block and you should have a nice flat super shinny body if you doing a basswood body sand it with no finer grit than 120 on the body if you are going to dye/stain, it will have a lot better even coat and not so streaky look as its a pretty tight wood on open grain wood (ash or mahogany)put 1 coat of sanding sealer before you dye/stain so it wont absorb to much and giving a blotchy look, hope that helps you get a good start

Hey all,

Been a while since I updated the process more for time than anything else. A few lessons learnt through the process.
Firstly, the water based paint rolling on - This was more trouble than it was worth. Ended up going back to wood multiple times trying to get it flat.

Next time, I would just use a sanding sealer then spray their primer, don't bother with a water based rolled on primer..

Here are a couple of photos once the water based primer was put on..

Attachment 43815
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The white primer was rolled on then sanded to 400 grit between every second coat to smoot it out. I think I ended up doing 4 coats before I gave up on this endeavour.

When I finally got to putting the spray primer on I found a number of user induced issues with my Timbermate grain filling. This was nowhere near flat enough. Also, if I was to do it again I would definitely add a grain filler to the head stock, this left much to be desired. I'll add photos in another post as this won’t let me add more than 5.

I wound up putting 5-6 coats of the primer surfacer spray onto the body and headstock, dry sanding with 600 grit after every second coat.

Here it is with 3-4 coats on:

Attachment 43820
Attachment 43821

And again with 5-6 coats on and sanded to 600 grit:

Attachment 43821
Attachment 43822

At this point I ran out of primer, but it could have done with another coat or 2 to hide my sanding through the grey primer..

Finally this morning I got to putting the base coat of Lake Placid Blue onto the guitar and it has come up alright.

A couple of things I noticed while going through it, the areas where I had gone through the grey primer came up a bit light, but just adding a slightly heavier spray on these areas hide it quite well. This is what it looks like after 3 coats:

Attachment 43823
Attachment 43824

I think it will need another coat or two as there are some areas that are not as even as others mainly at the bottom as it was hanging up - Just hoping I have enough left in the can..

I found some very small areas where there are slight holes, which I guess goes back to my poor grain filling technique:

Attachment 43825
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I'm not really worried about the joint near the bridge, that will be covered by the bridge and pick guard, but the small 'holes' I am after some advice. Will these show up after the clear has gone down, or will they be hidden as the clear coat builds up? I read something about drop filling the clear to hide minor dents etc, but I am a little confused if I should attempt it with base coat, or just wait till the clear goes on.

Second I will be adding the racing stripes in a little while and will need to tape it up - Does anyone know how long I will need to let it cure before taping? I was planning about a week or so.

As always, thanks for the advice!

J

Hi all,

A little advice if possible, I have finished the base coats and applied about 5-6 layers of clear before sanding with 600 grit, then applying another 5 coats.

Same process to the headstock and body of the guitar.

Over all it looks pretty good, the headstock has come up fairly glassy which looks awesome. However, the body has come up more of a satin finish with a slight roughness to it.

I suspect I didn't lay the clear coat on thick enough when I was spraying the body, but got a good coat on the headstock, which has resulted in the difference.

If I had an extra couple of weeks, I'd sand it slightly again with 600 before having another go to put on one or two thicker coats, but now I'm out of time to let that cure before for Christmas.

Attachment 43849
Attachment 43850
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I was hoping for a glass finish to the body, so was looking for advice if this will just polish out to a glassy finish.

I'm also terrified of cutting right through the clear coats and into the paint beneath (I did leave a couple of small marks of 600 grit sand paper burn throughs.. Yeah I know they could have been hidden if I hadnt completely run out of base coat... :mad:).

Anyway, I am inclinde to just leave it slightly satin as is, but any guidance would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
J

Hi all,

Hopefully the last question for this one before I finish the project.

I am a little confused with the wiring on this and was hoping for someone to double check before I messed it up.

The wires on the control panel I was planning to solder the grey wire on the control panel to the outer most pin on the switch (humbucker).

The White wire, I was going to solder to the next two pins on the switch (both single coils).

The Black wire on the ribben to the center pin on the switch.

Finally the black wire to a ground point on the switch.

Attachment 43860
Attachment 43861
Attachment 43862

Thanks in advance,
J

Hi J,

Please note that I have not done this kit. What wiring diagram are you using?

Sorry - just found the JM-1 schematic.

Yes, this looks correct. Though the white wire also needs to connect to pin 3. Brown to ground on switch.

Thanks Trevor,

Here is the finished product:

Attachment 43877

Finished wiring and assembling yesterday about lunch, so a solid 36 hours to spare.

Over all I'm pretty happy with it - Hopefully the boy will be.

Thanks to everyone who offered their advice and help! Very much appreciated!

Cheers,
J

Looks great. "36 hours to spare"! You could have finished another one in that time.

Hey mate, just curious about the pickguard. Did you make the white pickguard yourself? or did you buy it from somewhere. Just bought this kit off someone who has been sitting on it for years and hoping to get the white pearloid pickguard instead of the stock red one like yourself but cant find any for sale with this pickup configuration.

Any help would be great.

Thanks.