Winter Project #4

Well, the leaves are starting to turn up in the Northern Hemi, and Winter Project #4 arrived today, an XBF-1. Upon preliminary inspection everything looks good. Neck appears straight, no obvious flaws in the body. Grover tuners included. Can't do a mock build yet, as the neck does not slide down into the pocket. A little work required. Fretboard is light, and I'd have preferred rosewood, but I may try a darker stain there. Probably shooting for a solid color and glossy finish on the body. Anybody got a favorite color (or colour)?
Questions - one serious, one asking opinions. The nut on this unit is a new device to me. It consists of two grooved plastic ridges about half an inch apart. I'll post a photo when I can get my daughter to take one. Is this a good type of nut, or should I scrap it and get bone or Graphtec or something?
Opinion, showing my pedestrian amateurism. I am not looking for a specific sound. My builds all play well and sound fine for my purposes with the stock PBG pups and pots. IYO, is there any particular advantage for a plodder like me to cough up for Tonerider or Seymour Duncan, or some such? Thanks. Good to be back on the forum.

Welcome back XP Rider.

Thanks, Trevor. Saw a post the other day which showed a picture of Confucius. And it read, "Steal a man's wallet and he will be poor for a week. Teach a man music, and how to buy instruments, and he will be poor his whole life." Close to home, huh?

Haha - that is great, and True.

The XBF-1 should have a Floyd Rose and a locking nut, unless you’ve ordered a special without it (or bought a special offer with no locking nut). If so, the two plastic strips are probably to fill the gap where the locking nut went.

The ‘strip’ by the fretboard should then be a standard nut. You don’t want the strings in contact with the second strip behind that at all because of the additional friction.

If you are going the Floyd + locking tuners route, then the nut needs to be as friction free as possible. Standard kit plastic won’t cut it, but it all depends on just what’s fitted there as to what a good replacement would be.

So a photo is a necessity here to see what you have got.

Well, travel and various distractions have gotten in the way, but I am trying again. Mock build looks OK, after widening the neck pocket a hair. (Photos attached) Now working on the fretboard and neck. I am considering staining the fretboard, as it is not the rosewood I would have preferred. Any thoughts?
I think I have made some sense of the Floyd Rose, which is a different critter, but it appears that there will be some space around and under the bridge. Should it be stained or painted same as the body? That is my guess.
Simon, I did not get a close-up of the nut, but I will get one and hope you will make suggestions. Thanks. Attachment 43758Attachment 43759

Here are photos of the locking nut, which is what had me puzzled. It appears to be a pot metal. Is the stock PBG nut adequate, or would I be wise to upgrade? This will likely never be a gigging guitar, just another one in the collection. Have seen a T-shirt that read, "It's not hoarding if it's guitars." Attachment 43776Attachment 43777

That’s the correct nut to go with the locking trem, but you should also have three (almost square) string clamping plates and associated bolts.

Got 'em, Simon. Thanks. I'm working on the fretboard and neck for now.

Well, another long pause, this time caused by shoulder surgery. But I am working back, and doing what I can as a one-armed man.

Like many of us, I watch about a hundred videos. One guy said he'd gotten the best neck finish he'd ever achieved using boiled linseed oil. Hey! Cheap, convenient, and there is half a gallon in my garage. So, I sanded and stained with Old Masters Wiping Stain, maple flavor. Then the linseed oil, and set aside for 3 days. It was drying kind of bubbly, but I'm sure more than one coat would be needed. The video said wet sand with 1500 grit using mineral spirits with a splash of linseed. Even sanding lightly and that fine, I was starting to sand the stain off the headstock edges. And, although it seems I would have gotten a very nice feel eventually, after almost 3 weeks the BLO has not completely cured. So, time to sand back, touch up the stain, and return to TruOil.

Have sanded the body and slightly rounded the upper outside edge where the arm will rest. Two coats of Timbermate, sanding in between. I'm going to try something new. Over a black basecoat, Rustoleum Colorshift paint, Purple Sunrise. We'll see.

I hope your surgery went well. I'm currently a one-armed bandit as well due to shoulder surgery. Not being able to build, play guitar, or drive has been hard for me! But I'm getting more motion every day.

It is a shame about the BLO not working on the neck. Long live tru-oil:).

Good luck with the painting.

No bueno, Trevor. What did they do to your shoulder? My issue was torn rotator cuff, and apparently a pretty good rip. I'll see the Doc next Tuesday, and hopefully start physical therapy and start to get some ability back.

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Originally Posted by XP Rider

No bueno, Trevor. What did they do to your shoulder? My issue was torn rotator cuff, and apparently a pretty good rip. I'll see the Doc next Tuesday, and hopefully start physical therapy and start to get some ability back.

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Acromioplasty, subacromial decompression and ACJ excision. The surgery was 1 month ago, and it is still stiff and sore (even with physio).

Sounds like a painful process, Trevor. Hope you get your range of motion back soon. I am now 6 weeks from the surgery, and hope to be allowed to start PT next week.

I have plodded along with the build as well as possible with one hand. The body has been sanded to 220, then two applications of Timbermate with sanding. I've been spraying with a black base coat and sanding back runs for about 3 days. When that is finished, I plan a light wet sanding at 600 to smooth the surface some, then try the fancy Colorshift paint. Kind of just feeling my way along. We'll see.

Can't wait to see the colourshift!

Color Shift! Yes! I laid down several coats of a black base coat, then started with the color. Was reminded quickly that it is multiple light applications, don't worry about covering. I sanded back the runs and started again. After several coats and struggles to get an even coat, yes, the color definitely doesAttachment 43944 shift with the angle of the light. This is Rusteoleum Purple Sunrise. Attachment 43943
Still sanding on the neck to get back to bare wood. And sanding and sanding. Stay tuned.

Looking good.

Well, we live and we learn. Finally got the neck pretty well sanded back to bare wood. This may not be the best neck job I have done. Anyway, bare wood, two coats of maple stain, cure, then TruOil where I should have started in the first place. Except. Had an old bottle of TruOil that had not solidified, and I thought no use to waste that. But after half a dozen coats, the surface was getting kind of rough. Sanded again to get rid of the bumps, and started with a fresh bottle of TruOil. FYI, chuck the old bottle and buy a new one. Then. I thought maybe I should sand the body very lightly, maybe at 600 grit, before applying Wipe On poly. The colorshift still works from blue to purple, but I sanded off all the sparkles. So, now to see if I can wring one more coat out of the can. I'll get there eventually.

If the colour shift paint is any kind of lacquer (which I suspect it would be) you can't put a single-pack (hardware store stuff) polyurethane over it. The two are not compatible. Clear coat will need to be lacquer also.

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Originally Posted by McCreed

If the colour shift paint is any kind of lacquer (which I suspect it would be) you can't put a single-pack (hardware store stuff) polyurethane over it. The two are not compatible. Clear coat will need to be lacquer also.

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A water borne poly would be compatible.

With the colour shift paints the shift usually comes from a pearl, so if the sparkle appears to be gone then you probably had flakes in there that had settled on the surface. With a base coat/clear coat system, you will find a big difference in how it looks once cleared. You may find the sparkle comes back.

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A water borne poly would be compatible.

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There's likely more that I don't know about paint than what I do know, but I'd be dubious about putting a water based poly over a solvent based (acetone, toluene, xylene) colour coat.

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Originally Posted by McCreed

There's likely more that I don't know about paint than what I do know, but I'd be dubious about putting a water based poly over a solvent based (acetone, toluene, xylene) colour coat.

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Depends on the poly. There is a difference between water based and water borne. Over base coat there is a certain amount of key which give a mechanical bond. Then it comes down to the resin. Water borne systems are not thinned with water but a mix of polar organic solvents (acetone is in that category, toluene and xylene are non polar solvents).

Thank you both for trying to keep me out of trouble, here. And Rabbit, I am so happy to hear from someone who knows something about this paint. I found it by accident, and tried it as a lark. Looks pretty good, though. I added a final coat, and emptied the can right down to the last rattle.

As for top coat. The colorshift paint can says clean-up with xylene or mineral spirits. The Minwax Wipe-On Poly can says clean-up with mineral spirits or paint thinner. Potentially not much different, and all non-polar solvents. So intuitively, it seems I should be OK. ? But I would cheerfully defer to wiser heads. If you still see a compatibility problem, can you suggest an alternative clearcoat? Thanks agian.

XP, is the paint you used Rustoleum by any chance?

It's a shame you don't have any spare to do some tests on scrap wood. The Minwax poly is an oil based product, and Rustoleum (if that's what you had) is solvent based acrylic enamel (TTBOMK) which is a variant of acrylic lacquer.

I know rabbit is a (or was) a chemist, and maybe I'm just over-cautious/old-school, but I wouldn't put poly over the colour shift without testing first. I personally think it's asking for trouble.

XP: I'd steer clear ox xylene, it's nasty stuff. Stick to mineral spirits (or turps as we call it in Oz). The colour shift paints were originally developed by House of Kolor, and in Oz, went for about $1000/quart. I use a water borne system made by Createx. Whilst they do have their own clear, which also double as an adhesion primer on plastics, their base coats are designed to also be cleared with 2k poly for automotive applications.

McCreed: If the resin system is acrylic, then a water borne poly would be fine, but a solvent based poly could cause problems, and an acrylic clear would be the way to go. If in doubt , your suggestion of testing first is sound. It also gives you a chance to see how it lays down when sprayed, and experiment to get the best results before committing to an instrument.

Well, I hope we will stay with this until we get a solution. The paint is indeed Rusteoleum. And between fixing mistakes and struggling to get an even coat, I milked 'er pretty dry. But I think there are some smooth enough spots in the pickup routs to do some tests on. I'll try the wipe-on poly there.

Rabbit, I have been trying to find a water-bourne finish without much apparent luck. Createx products seem to be available here in the northern hemi, but both the Createx 5620 acrylic and Wicked Color acrylic are water based. Minwax also has a water-based wipe-on polyacrylic. StewMac offers a whiz-bang guitar clear coat, several cans are needed and I am not willing to drop $150 to finish this project. A little further guidance, please? Thanks again to both.

XP: Since the base coat is Rustolium, ideally you would use their clear. The createx stuff is designed for spraying. The clear you would use is either the 4050 UVLS gloss or 4053 UVLS high gloss thinned with 10% 4011 reducer. The thing that freaks most people out is that the clear is a milky white. Createx have info on their YouTube channel. Their products should be easy to get for you, they are manufactured in the US.

Many thanks again, Rabbit. I have treated a couple of painted surfaces in the pick-up cavities with the Minwax Wipe-on Poly, and they dried hard with no evidence of peeling or bubbling, so I might have been alright. But I will take your advice and clear coat with Rustoleum.
Neck is pretty well done with about 30 coats of TruOil. Not the best job I have done and the water-slide decal on the headstock did not go on as smoothly as I'd wished. But it has a pretty good feel, and that's most important.

Well, still alive up here after shoulder re-hab and a couple of trips. For a clearcoat over the Rusteoleum ColorShift, the paint store dude recommended Krylon Fusion All-in-One Clear Gloss. "No runs, No drips, No errors." I got 8 to 10 coats out of the can, and hope that is enough. It sat for a week to harden, and tonight I started with Meguair's Ultimate. A couple of treatments with the rubbing compd, and I'll top it off with Meguiar's wax, and start assembly. I'm going to get this thing done. Stand by.

I hope your rehab has been going well! Can't wait for the final assembly.

My friends, am I in trouble? 2 humbuckers, single volume pot, and 3-way switch. I can find no passage from the 3-way to the pot rout. Neck pup to 3-way, bridge pup to pot, pot to bridge, all are OK. But it does not appear to be drilled all the way through from the in-put jack, either. What am I missing, or what in the world do I do?

Hi XP Rider,
I'm not familiar with this kit. Can you send some pics of the back so as to see the pot and switch cavities (and the jack cavity)?

I would assume the output and the ground from the 3-way switch go back through both the pups cavities to the volume. Hopefully the input jack recess can be drilled to the volume cavity.

Pictures finally. It took a little finagling, but I was able to angle a channel through from the jack cavity to the pot rout. I am thinking I might drill from the back where the Floyd Rose attaches through to the 3-way rout, then use extra-long wires to run all the way from the 3-way through the back and on to the pot and input jack. Sound reasonable?
Attachment 44135Attachment 44136 Thanks, Trevor, for staying with me through this project.

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Originally Posted by XP Rider

Pictures finally. It took a little finagling, but I was able to angle a channel through from the jack cavity to the pot rout. I am thinking I might drill from the back where the Floyd Rose attaches through to the 3-way rout, then use extra-long wires to run all the way from the 3-way through the back and on to the pot and input jack. Sound reasonable?
Attachment 44135Attachment 44136 Thanks, Trevor, for staying with me through this project.

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I'm glad I have been a help. The extra long wires though the back tremolo does sound resonable, but I still think they will fit in the pup cavities!

Thanks for the clarification. I had covered the channel between neck and bridge pup cavities with copper tape, and had managed to overlook it. Drilling between the jack cavity and the volume pot rout was tricky, but managable. Running the wiring now.

Quick question. Maybe I have never noticed before, but the pick-up mounts are tapered a little. Am I right in assuming that they slope with the low side toward the neck? Thanks.

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Originally Posted by XP Rider

Quick question. Maybe I have never noticed before, but the pick-up mounts are tapered a little. Am I right in assuming that they slope with the low side toward the neck? Thanks.

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Yes. They also can be two different heights. If they are, the taller of the two is your bridge pickup, shorter one is the neck pickup.

Many thanks, Mick. It's taken a while, but I'm on the downhill run now.

"What a long, strange trip it's been." Missteps and do-overs, temperatures now in the 70's F., but the winter project is finally done. Pretty much stock PBG, with Grover tuners and a truss rod cover from Thalia Capos. Attachment 44194Attachment 44195Attachment 44196Attachment 44197
Tons of thanks to all who have helped out and supported. This forum is the best thing about Pit Bull guitars. Already thinking about next winter's project - maybe a cherry-red Tele? We'll see. Signing off until cooler weather up north.

Well done XP Rider. She looks good.

A cherry red tele - I can't wait!