Here goes nothing...
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Here goes nothing...
Hi and welcome Diefox1.
It should be a great kit. Have you got the kit yet? How do you intend to finish your kit?
Hi and welcome.
Have you looked at other GR-1SF builds for ideas and possible issues with the kit?
Welcome! Look forward to watching your build
Ok. First stumbling block. Finish coming along pretty nice. Basic water based dye black and then back sanded to pop
Grain. Followed with red dye and the first few (of many) Tru Oil coats. I’ll have pics later.
But wired up the pickups today (replaced the kit pickups with Seymour Duncan Pearly Gates. They are working but pretty loud buzz. Seems to be loudest on bridge pickup but still there on the neck as well. Gets better when I touch the switch and the pots from behind if that helps someone think of a suggestion. Here is a pic of the harness. Excuse the soldering, first time doing it.
(Well. I will try to put up a picture. Forum keeps saying fail to upload my png file?
Any good threads to read on buzzing?
FYI. The Pearly Gates have five wires in their braid. The red and white are taped off and do not go anywhere in my kit
Setup (per the instructions). The Green and bare wires are put together and soldered to the back of their respective pots with the black (hot) wire to one of the respective pot leads.
Likely a ground problem. If you're still in the finishing process, I'm guessing your harness isn't grounded to anything like the bridge post.
Even humbuckers will buzz if you connect them outside of the guitar without a proper ground.
As for pics, the image size can't be greater than 1500 x 1500 pixels (1500 on any side) and less than 1mb. Try converting to jpeg and see if it makes a difference. I know png is listed as a file type, but I think they can be touchy for some reason.
Double check that the output jack connections are correct. It’s easy to get the ground and hot connections swapped over and if you do that, the pickups still work but any shielding is now carrying the hot signal and acts like an aerial and picks up hum.
Also that for the volume pots that the tab the other end to the input connection is connected to ground. Some of the kit diagrams show it bent back to touch the casing but not actually soldered (which it should be).
Have you got a multimeter? If you have, then check the continuity of the ground connections for low resistance. The ground resistance path should be as close to zero as possible, and only just over the ohms value you get when holding the two probe ends together. If you haven’t, then you really need one. Even cheap ones work well.
Thanks! Yes wire loom still on cardboard but I did hold the end of the bridge wire ground (that should be a ground right? And also touched it to a mike stand). Still humming. Love any other suggestions, I followed Simon’s advice below as well to try that. Please look at how I answered that if it gives you any ideas. Aargh. I really appreciate you following.
Simon. Tabs are not long enough to Bend back to pot but I jumped them
With small wire run and grounded them to back of pot. Still got the hum. Aargh. My multimeter (set at 200ohm reading) reads about 1.0 or 2.0 when I touch the probes. Ground solder point to ground solder point across the wiring reads from 1.0 to 4.0. Seems within reasonable range?? The hum shuts off when the master tone is pushed to either end of its range? Is that a hint to where to go next?? Thanks for any suggestion!!
The highest resistance readings could ideally be slightly lower, but thats’s unlikely to be the cause of the hum.
Can you take some close-up photos of the various pots so we can see the wiring on them?
Tone pot operation with the hum seems to indicate something not quite right.
With long wiring runs as you have in that guitar, the single wires can pick up noise if its around, so it could pay to rewire in screened cable. As for noise, have you got dimmer switches or fluorescent lights in the vicinity?
And what are you plugging into? The ground for the system comes via the guitar lead from the amp, so it’s important the amp is properly grounded. The bridge ground lead grounds the bridge. The bridge isn’t a ground without the ground connection.
Thanks Simon!! No dimmers or fluorescents nearby. Tried it into two amps. A ‘66 fender Vibrolux and a Roland Cube. Both had the him and both are properly grounded three-pronged plugs.
Here are the pics of the pots and switches. The pic in links above shows the whole harness
Attachment 42305
OK, there are definitely some wiring errors. Just about bedtime for me here, so I'll have a more detailed look in the morning (though others may chip-in before then, but the master tone pot shouldn't have the black wire from the back of the pot to the third (top) lug of the pot. Remove it completely. The capacitor should be connected to the lug the black wire is connected to for the tone control to work the correct way round. The wiring diagrams are shown looking at the back of the pots (i.e. from the rear of the guitar to the front), not as if looking down from the top of the guitar towards the rear.
It shouldn't be causing the hum, but it will explain the tone knob's effect on the hum. With the pot at either end of it's travel, the signal is currently fully grounded one way and grounded through the capacitor (so only low frequencies pass through as a tone control turned fully down should). In the middle, some of the buzzy signal is being grounded, so the output will be quieter than it should, with the rest going to the nice amp.
Shorten the leg of the capacitor that's going to a pot lug so that it can't be accidentally bent when inserted into the guitar and touch the pot casing and so ground the signal. Or get some heat shrink and put it over that leg to insulate it. You might as well shorten the or insulate the other leg to, just to be sure it too can't get bent and short out something.
Tone pots work as variable resistors so only have two of the lugs connected.
Volume pots work as 'potential dividers' so normally have the two outer lugs connected across the signal whose volume is to be controlled, with the output signal connected to the middle lug, the 'wiper', the arm that sweeps around the potentiometer's carbon track.
Ahh. I am an idiot. I think I see what I did. The diagram from pit bull page for the GR-1SF…Since the pickups in the picture are facing up (and the pots are in the same places as when viewed from front of the guitar) I thought you had to flip the pots and switches right side up and then the leads would be in different order. So…basically I have to view the number of the pot leads as if I was looking down from the top. So I mistakingly my made all my first leads my third leads! Right? Just switch all my 1’s and 3’s. I will have to rewire all those flips
My pot leads are not long enough to bend back to touch the pots so those short black wires are there to just jump to ground to the pots (of course, from my mistake above) they are all on wrong side now). And I see that the third lead on the master tone pot does NOT need the ground back to the pot.
Can’t thank you enough for taking the time.
On the soldering, you’re not really getting the back of the pot hot enough to properly melt the solder. As a result it’s all ‘blobby’ and sitting rough and proud of the surface. It should have a rounded smooth, shiny surface to it.
I don't know what size iron you have. An 18W-20W iron is fine for small electronic components, but you really need a 50W-60W iron for soldering to the rear of pots, and ideally temperature controlled and with a fairly large tip that has some heat storage capacity so it doesn't immediately cool down when you touch the back of the pot.
From the resistance measurements, it seems there's enough contact for the moment, but you are fairly close to having a few dry joints, and these rough solder blobs can allow oxidation to creep under them over time.
It helps if you apply solder ('tin') to the back of the pot and the wires first, before putting them together and heating them up. Solder will stick to solder more easily than solder to the metal, so it just makes life that bit easier.
Here's a drawing to help with the pot soldering lugs:
Attachment 42316
The 1 - 2 - 3 order shown is a widely accepted method of numbering.
I have a Matt Guitar Murphy sig, that came from the factory with a bad solder joint on the back of the pot. I used a dremel tool with a little sanding disc to rough a small spot on the surface that I was soldering to. It worked great. I DID use a soldering gun with a fairly heavy tip, like Simon recommended. Transferred enough heat to do the job in a few seconds.
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Thanks for all the responses again! Now that I understand the wiring diagram better, I will pull out the big dog soldering iron with a bigger tip and clean up those grounds when I fix the order of the leads. I was a little afraid to apply too much heat to the back of the pot as I was afraid of damaging some internals. The dremel tool suggestion sounds good as well.
Counter-intuitively, a bigger iron is better for soldering the pack of pots with less risk of heat damage. With a smaller iron, you need to keep the iron on for much longer to get the top hot enough; allowing all the pot to heat up.
A bigger iron heats up the local area quickly (should be a couple of seconds at most), so the main heat stays fairly local. As long as you get the solder and wire on there ASAP, it will be fine. The heat will then dissipate to the rest of the pot, but it won't get as warm as if warmed for a long time. Using metal mole grips/self-clamping grips on the sides of the pots helps absorb some of the excess heat and reduces the risk of damage.
I had high hopes with the suggestions offered above but still have a hum - though lower in volume it is still there. New problem is neck pickup doesn't work. I have attached pics of the new wiring harness and a (prob easier to read) schematic of the connections.
One thing - some of the wires I was using for longer runs were braided metal wires - thought they would be better at shielding. I now realize the outer braids of these wires should be grounded to pots as well right?
Any other suggestions before i rip it all out and start again???
Here is written description of wire connections:
Switch 1 to Neck Vol 3
Switch 2 to Master Vol 3
Switch 3 to Bridge Vol 3
Switch 4 to Master Vol Pot Ground
Switch 4 to Master Tone Pot Ground
Master Volume 1 to Pot Ground
Neck Volume 1 to Pot Ground
Bridge Volume 1 to Pot Ground
Master Vol 2 to Master Tone 2
Master Tone 2 to Input Tip
Neck Pickup Red/White taped to nowhere
Neck Pickup Green/Bare to Ground Neck Vol
Neck Pickup Black to Neck Vol 2
BRIDGE Pickup Red/White taped to nowhere
BRIDGE Pickup Green/Bare to Ground BRIDGE Vol
BRIDGE Pickup Black to BRIDGE Vol 2
Master Vol Ground to Neck Vol Ground
Neck Vol Ground to Bridge Volume Ground
Bridge Vol Ground to Input Sleeve
Bridge Vol Ground to wire ground for bridge
No pics. My only comment is "yes" on the metal braid being grounded.
Note that your pictures haven't attached, DIEFOX1.
The thing to do is use the braided screen as the ground connection between pots where you can to save running separate ground wires. I'd suggest drawing it all out before you begin soldering and posting the drawing here.
Have a look at this video to get an idea how to use shielded wire in a general sense. There are lots of good wiring videos on the Six Strings channel, but unfortunately he doesn't do a big hollow bodied guitar like a Gretsch or ES-175.
http://youtu.be/Z42WwxbrWTc
You'll need to adapt some of his wiring methods slightly, such as the 3-way switch wiring, but you can still use the solid wire method with the box-style of switch.
Is the soldering iron still on when you get the hum? I was having lots of noise and re soldering everything driving my self crazy and found out that the hum was coming from the soldering iron being on 🙄
Hey all,
After much frustration with the hum and pickup not working and a metric ton of solder I used I got all over and in the pots, I blew everything up, chucked it outAttachment 42352…bought new CTS pots and Switchcraft switch so I could start over. After watching the videos from sixstringsupplies, I have attempted to plan out a cleaner layout. Here is a diagram I drew up. Does it make sense? Thanks for any input.
Here is the completed build. Thanks to all who helped along the way (Simon, McCreed and Gunut75). Starting a first build with the GR-1SF was a challenge (and I got the wiring wrong more times than I want to admit) but I am really pleased with how it came out.
Tuners and nut were upgraded. Pickups were upgraded to Seymour Duncan Pearly Gates. I didn’t like the feel of the supplied pots (and I blew up one of them with a bad solder job) so I upgraded to CTS pots which required reaming out all the body holes and new really nice HEAVY knobs.
Body was stained black with water-based dye, sanded back and then red dye on top before countless thinned outTru Oil coats with a few sands in between. Sides were kept black for some contrast. Tried the finger application technique with the oil but a balled up t-shirt scrap french polish technique worked better. All the advice about going thin with the oil seems the right way to go.
Plays really nice. Just finished truss rod, action and intonation fine adjustments and waiting for it all to settle in.
Now…which one to build next? And should I go down the lacquer finish rabbit hole…
Attachment 42562
Attachment 42563
Attachment 42564
Attachment 42565
Good job. Nice colour!
That looks great! I'm very mystified about how I have seen some builds that don't seem to reflect the yellow tint of the true-oil. Did it change the color on yours?
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As far as i can tell, it dried pretty clear. It was a dark red though
Lovely looking guitar! I’d love to hear a sound demo.
That looks stunning!
Love the colour.
How did you apply the phoenix decal?
Thanks! - the decal is just a mother of pearl vinyl sticker I got on Amazon. On the headstock, I put a few coats of Tru-oil over it. Just stuck it directly on the pickquard. Same with the fretboard inlays. Cant really feel them while playing and I liked how they looked