Taking the finish off an ES style guitar

I would like to remove the finish from an ES style bass using the quickest, most environmentally friendly approach possible. Hoping that I can approximate at least one of those two goals...

It's covered in Duplicolor primer, paint and clearcoat. It was soft for a long time, but never really got super hard. It no longer dents when I put a clip-on tuner on the headstock, but it feels a bit rubbery. It also comes off easily--and has anywhere that a stand has touched it. I am guessing that the high Florida heat and humidity did me no favors when I was finishing it.

I am guessing that I'll need to take it down to bare wood. My inclination would be to sand it flat and then re-finish over the top in a solid color...but the finish just doesn't seem hard enough to do that.

So, if that's the case, how do I get it down to bare wood most expeditiously? I am guessing that heat and chemicals are mostly out because they are likely to damage the binding.

That leaves sanding, but there are all these curves.... I am open to suggestions about how to tackle this. I have orbital and non orbital palm sanders. I have an angle grinder that I could attach a flap sanding wheel to, but I am guessing that's too aggressive. Would be grateful for some advice on grits to get the paint off quickly but not go through the wood.

Thanks!

On my ES-1 to remove the Tru-Oil finish, I just used power tools where I could, mainly my orbital sander with 180 grit paper and then just a lot of hand sanding.

https://www.buildyourownguitar.com.a...l=1#post165686

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Originally Posted by fender3x

That leaves sanding, but there are all these curves.... I am open to suggestions about how to tackle this. I have orbital and non orbital palm sanders. I have an angle grinder that I could attach a flap sanding wheel to, but I am guessing that's too aggressive. Would be grateful for some advice on grits to get the paint off quickly but not go through the wood.

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Er yeh... unless you are carving, stay away from the flap disk.. ROS as Simon suggested, although I'd be inclined to use 120 grit rather than 180. It would work just slower.

I was afraid of that... In fact it's worse than I thought. I was hoping to be able to start with 80 or 100 grit. I am not trying to save the veneer. Just don't want to sand through the wood.

BTW, I remember that build well.

What are you planning to refinish with?

If you're going to paint again, you don't have to get down to 100% bare timber all over. You'll need to do primer again anyway, so as long as any residual paint is well adhered and abraded, you can prime over it safely.

I’d use 180 on the ROS to start with as a) the finish isn’t hard (the reason it’s being removed) and b) it is a curved, not flat, body, so it is very easy to sand too much off on the sharper curves. If its taking a long time, then switch to 120. My ES-1 Tru-Oil was very hard indeed, but a softer finish shouldn't take too long to get a lot off with a ROS. After that move to hand sanding for the finer details and concave areas. You can move to coarser grits here to start with as it’s done by hand so a lot easier to control how much is removed.

As you've already had a paint reaction and non-hardening, I’d take all the finish off so you can truly start afresh. You don’t know how the primer will react with any remaining paint. It may be fine, but it may not and you then end up in the same situation. For the sake of a bit more effort, I’d want to be as sure as possible of it working.

The top for sure needs a solid color. There are a bunch of patched holes in the top and a botched stain job under the botched paint on the rest. I suspect it will need to get it to bare wood. The paint doesn't stick to the primer that well, nor the primer to the wood, so I think both will need to go. When I've done a bit of test sanding it doesn't come off nice and sandy. It's not quite clumpy, just feels kind of soft.

I don't have spray equipment but have had pretty good luck luck finishing using MTN94 spray paints. They are great for drip control, very forgiving, and sand beautifully flat. They go on sort of like a filling primer, and don't need an undercoat of primer.

I may try the ROS on the top and back and headstock...maybe on the neck too? I don't want to change the shape, and the ROS is pretty aggressive. Probably more inclined to use the palm sander on the sides. Not as quick but more controllable. These ES's were not designed with refinishing in mind. They seem to have concave surfaces everywhere. The only truly flat surfaces seem to be on the headstock.

Seems a shame to take the guitar apart when I finally get it playing and sounding to my liking, but sanding seems the next order of business.... so así es la vida as they say in my wife{s culture.

Thanks! I was hoping there'd be an easier way, but at least I can go at it knowing that elbow grease is the only viable option!

180 grit may be the way to go. I was using 240 grit on the blade for the axe bass and it was surprising how much timber it was removing in fairly short order, and that was on hard maple. Be prepared to have lots of disks on hand, if the paint is soft it is also probably gummy and will clog the paper in fairly short order.

I think I might try scraping before I got into sandpaper if the finish is as dubious as you suggest, at least to get down to the primer. Trouble is you really need a scraper with a convex blade to avoid corners of a scraper digging in.

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Originally Posted by JimC

I think I might try scraping before I got into sandpaper if the finish is as dubious as you suggest, at least to get down to the primer. Trouble is you really need a scraper with a convex blade to avoid corners of a scraper digging in.

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It doesn't seem to want to scrape off. Maybe just hard enough not to... I may try the scraper on the neck with some heat, though. No binding there to melt there at least....

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Originally Posted by fender3x

The top for sure needs a solid color. There are a bunch of patched holes in the top and a botched stain job under the botched paint on the rest. I suspect it will need to get it to bare wood. The paint doesn't stick to the primer that well, nor the primer to the wood, so I think both will need to go. When I've done a bit of test sanding it doesn't come off nice and sandy. It's not quite clumpy, just feels kind of soft.

I don't have spray equipment but have had pretty good luck luck finishing using MTN94 spray paints. They are great for drip control, very forgiving, and sand beautifully flat. They go on sort of like a filling primer, and don't need an undercoat of primer.

I may try the ROS on the top and back and headstock...maybe on the neck too? I don't want to change the shape, and the ROS is pretty aggressive. Probably more inclined to use the palm sander(it's really helpful) on the sides. Not as quick but more controllable. These ES's were not designed with refinishing in mind. They seem to have concave surfaces everywhere. The only truly flat surfaces seem to be on the headstock.

Seems a shame to take the guitar apart when I finally get it playing and sounding to my liking, but sanding seems the next order of business.... so así es la vida as they say in my wife{s culture.

Thanks! I was hoping there'd be an easier way, but at least I can go at it knowing that elbow grease is the only viable option!

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Hi, can you recommend a palm sander, if you please? Sorry for reviving. Was it effective finally?

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Originally Posted by FairFrank

Hi, can you recommend a palm sander, if you please? Sorry for reviving. Was it effective finally?

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I wish I could. I have a cheap Chinese random orbital (Chicago Electric/Harbor Freight) and a Ryobi 4" palm sander. Neither worked well. I have gotten this far after about 5 hours of elbow grease using a diablo sanding mesh, and conventional 150 grit sand paper (US grits)Attachment 42392

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For better or worse what I have found to work best is this in the pic. I cut a small block of relatively hard EPS foam, and used it as a sanding block. Works much better with the mesh than the big foam block it came with. The nice thing about the mesh is that it is more clump/clog resistant then the sandpaper. I have been using 120 grit, but it does not seem equivalent to 120 conventional sandpaper, it's more like 150 or 180. I have also had decent results with Dura Gold 150 grit. It clogged quickly with the ROS sander, but works reasonably well and doesn't clog or ball-up nearly as fast with the foam sanding block.

I will most likely go over the whole thing with 220 grit when I finish to prep for new paint. I could probably have saved an hour or two if I had started with the combination of sanding mesh and sandpaper I am using now.

BTW most of the remaining red on the pic in the post above is stain rather than paint. I tried staining and failed at that, before I put on primer and paint which never got really hard. I'm not worrying too much if there's some leftover stain. I'll use a coat of shellac over that to make sure it doesn't react with whatever comes next ;-)Attachment 42393

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