My first build: a 12-string SG

Hello, everyone!

Firstly, it's awesome to see such a supportive community of people passionate about a noble activity such as building musical instruments! I've been reading and learning as much as possible here before embarking on this first build, and I hope I can also get some tips on this first build.

I must admit I have negligible experience with carpentry and electrics, so this is already being a steep learning curve for me. And it's also quite exciting.

I got my DGM-12 kit and let the wood aclimatise for a few days.


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I've inspected the parts and done a mock build, and here are my findings:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...d54a104a_w.jpg

1. There is a knot in the head that seemed to have been filled, I wonder if that would be an issue with the string tension over time? Otherwise I'm happy to put it down as "added character" to the guitar.



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...31628a14_w.jpg

2. There's a section of the fretboard that seems to have been sanded by accident, so whatever finish there was there was removed. I imagine that would be just a matter of applying it again and it would match the rest?



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...2330bd6d_w.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...c9010678_w.jpg

3. There's a bit of glue in the joint at the top (would sand paper take it out?) and a couple of gaps at the bottom - which I intend to fill with Timbermate.



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...fc5fdfbf_w.jpg

4. My biggest concern though is how the bridge saddle holes don't seem to match the width of the saddle itself. To make the saddle fit the poles without them being pushed in all the way in for the dry build, you can see how the poles are off-centre. I've seen this in another build here (Simon's beautiful double SG-build) and I don't know if it's something I'll have to deal with myself or if it warrants a replacement from Pit Bull. What do you guys think? I'm afraid I don't have the tools needed to drill a new hole if this one needs to be filled - I'd have to get some help from a friend to do it.


Thanks in advance!

Hi MarZed, and welcome.

The glue spots and little gaps are the least worrying to me, but if it were my kit, I'd contact PBG about the other matters.
Those are reasonable defects and it shouldn't have been sold as a first quality IMO.

Hi and welcome.

Basically what McCreed said.

Also, the body join looks to be pretty much along the centreline. Assuming that and looking at the bridge picture, the bridge is sitting very much on the bass side of the line, and the treble side post looks nearer the middle than the bass-side post. So even if you did use a round needle file to enlarge the post holes in the bridge, you'd probably still end up with the strings not running straight down the neck, but at an angle. It's probably the treble post hole that's been miss-drilled (though they could both be slightly out).

I'd also have a look at the stop-tail holes and see how well they've been drilled and how the stop tail lines up with the neck centreline. You don't want that off to one side so the strings come off that and hit the saddles at an angle.

There isn't any finish on the fretboard, its just been sanded with a fine grit paper, but they've used a rough scraper to get the binding level with the board and not re-sanded the board before putting the frets on. If the kit stays, then I'd first scrape the board with the edge of a craft knife blade or a single-sided razor blade to remove most of the roughness, and then sand the board in that area with some P400-P1200 grit.

The knot in the headstock is probably small enough to not weaken it significantly, but visually it's an issue and it could move a bit over time. Not something you should have in a neck.

Thanks for the advice, guys!

I'll get in touch with Pit Bull and see what they say.

Cheers.

Quick update: I've emailed PBG and they're sending a new body and neck to replace the current ones. Looking forward to receiving the new parts! :)

Good news!

Indeed! Let's hope the holes have been drilled correctly on this one!

Thanks a lot for your wisdom and advice so far, guys! I've been really busy with things-other-than-guitars and only now got the chance to post this update.

I received the replacement kit from PitBull and... well, there are good news and bad news.

Starting with the good things:

The new body looks great! The grain on the wood is beautiful and the two pieces are glued together very well, and match nicely.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...9ddf920e_w.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...5f191aae_w.jpg

Most importantly - the bridge saddle and the stop-tail holes are correct and match their lengths.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...d53e03a7_w.jpg


The body does have a crack on the hole for the pickup cabling, but I don't think that would be an issue as it's going to be hidden from view (I might try to glue it so it doesn't get bigger though).

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...acf6b930_w.jpg


The bad/disappointing part is the neck. In a couple of aspects, it's in much worse shape than the first one.

1. It seems to me like the top edge of the fretboard wood has been cut to form a bevel between the wood and the white (plastic?) edge. I would imagine that is not how it should be? I also don't know how/if it can be fixed or addressed, and I imagine that bevel should not be there in the first place, is that correct? (The bottom side of the fretboard doesn't have such a discrepancy between the height of the wood and the white edge)

It's hard to get a notion of how steep the bevel is from the pictures, but you can get an idea:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...0e6dac63_w.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...93e864de_w.jpg

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Trying to think of a solution, I imagine I could sand the bevel to make it smoother and more discreet, but I'm not sure how it's possible to do that properly without removing the frets. And even if I manage to do it, I'm weary of changing the depth of the fingerboard, especially on a 12-string where there high E at the top will sit so close to the edge. What do you guys think?


2. Another issue: the higher frets are damaged. Is that something that can be fixed?

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...b5ec9f82_w.jpg


3. And last but not least, I noticed the holes for the tuners are not symmetrical or aligned. I know this doesn't have a functional implication, but it still bothers me from an aesthetic perspective.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...6b994f25_w.jpg



I would really appreciate your wisdom and advice about the above. Does it warrant reaching out to PitBull again? Or are these issues expected from these kits and I should try to address them the best I can?

Thanks again for you generosity and help!

The neck looks like it warrants a message to the PB team. The damaged frets I imagine will probably be sorted out when you level and crown them, but the raised fingerboard and misaligned peg holes are more problematic (IMO).

The cabling cavity issue is not a disaster at all in isolation, but on top of the neck issues, the quality control is below average here.

The fretboard can be levelled by scraping. I'd use a sharp craft knife/Stanley knife blade or a single-sided razorblade and just drag it between the frets on the edge. You shouldn't have to do that though.

If you've been on the forum for a while, you'll know that the headstock tuner holes are rarely perfectly aligned. Sometimes you can live with them, and sometimes people plug them and redrill them. You'd probably only have to plug two holes to get the holes relatively level to one another e.g.

Attachment 41956

Top one down slightly, bottom one up a bit.

The new holes shouldn't be too far off centre from the old ones, so that the tuner washers will cover the work on the headstock face. The tuner bodies themselves should cover the work on the rear. Easy to check. If not, then you can always stick a piece of veneer on the headstock to patch things up.

But definitely let Pit Bull know about the issues. Posting faults here unfortunately rarely gets picked up by the PB team, so you need to let them know directly if they are to ever improve matters.

Thanks for the feedback, dozy and Simon! I'll email PitBull and see what they say.

I need to inspect the fretboard a bit more to see what the consequences would be of scraping the fretboard to level it, as in some places the height difference between the binding and the fretboard is up to a millimetre, so the frets at those places would sit a lot higher from the fingerboard if I level them to the binding.

Thanks again for the support and I'll keep you posted on how this progresses. :)

Thanks again and I'll keep you posted!

It sounds like you have been very unlucky. We have built dozens of different guitars at school and had one return in the last 5 years, but that does not look right so you might be at 0-2! I think it needs replacing again

On a second look, the binding may have been set in too low on that side as there appears to be a larger than normal gap between the frets ends and the binding. Does such a gap exist in reality?

Unlucky indeed, Andyxlh! Let's see what PBG says - asked them for third replacement or a refund. As a first build, I was expecting to have to do a lot of work and make mistakes, but what is going on in the fretboard seems like it either can't be totally fixed, or that the work involved in doing it is way beyond what PBG says I should expect from the kit.

Simon, I measured both bindings on the top and bottom and they are both 5mm. It looks like the fretboard is the issue there. Some frets are raised from the fretboard at the binding, some aren't. From what I can see, it looks like it's the fretboard that for some reason is set higher than what it should, and they tried to "fix" the issue by carving the end, with the results you can see above.

I've taken another shot to try to show the fret ends - you can see a couple of them lifted from the binding, I hope it helps:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...aabd85c3_c.jpg

(apologies about the angle and the lack of precision with the ruler, I was holding everything with one hand and the phone with the other!)

Cheers!

Yep, I can see the lifted frets. If it was only that you could perhaps seat them, but the other issue seems the problem

I think the frets appeared to be seated on the board OK. It's the binding that's been set slightly lower than the height of the board that's causing the gap at the end. If so, you couldn't even tap the frets down a bit to seat them better as they won't go down further.

If you really had to, you could mix up some binding material with acetone, fill in the gaps under the fret ends and scrape the board down on the edges, but it's a lot of work with no guarantee of how successful you'd be, especially if it was your first go at that sort of thing. And not the sort of thing you'd want to do on a first build.

Alternatively you take the frets off, re-profile the board so that it meets the binding and then fit new frets, but that's even more advanced!

Wow, this is a real bummer of an introduction to a PBG kit.
Based on my own experience and others', I'm sure PBG will do the right thing, but jeez...

Thanks for the sympathy, everyone!

It is indeed too much for a humble first-time builder without experience and tools. I reached out to PBG and they are not happy with the kit, and checked the other 5 12-string kits they have, and they all have the same kind of issues. So unfortunately I'm returning the kits and getting a refund. They offered me to choose something else, but I'm not interested in having another 6-string or a bass at this moment.

I looked online and found this kit that is cheaper and seem to have less chances of big issues (since the neck is simpler and frets are already levelled and and dressed)... It is basswood (as opposed to mahogany) and obviously doesn't have the humbuckers, which is a shame in both instances, but there's not much else out these.

Do you guys have any experience with this brand, Haze? (they claim to be based in Sydney) Any comments on this kit?

Either way, once again, really appreciate your support!

Pit Bull have almost the same kit, but without the 'solderless' wiring.

https://www.pitbullguitars.com/shop/...ic-guitar-kit/

Personally I'd prefer a fully soldered wiring harness, but YMMV.

Unless it's been remedied, the bridge is the weak point of these kits. It's copied the Gotoh 12-string bridge saddles, but the extra set of octave string saddle saddles should be able to be set forward for R/H guitar operation, and backwards for L/H guitar operation. But unlike the Gotoh, the kit bridge doesn't have the second set of holes tapped for the screw to do so, so is only fully adjustable for use on L/H guitars.

Attachment 42049

The best you can do on a R/H guitar is have the two saddles in line with each other (which TBH is all you could do on the SG-style 12-string), though if you have some taps, you may be able to tap out the saddle holes to accept the screws, they are bound to be a metric size, maybe M2, M2.5 or M3.

Alternatively you could fit a different nut (or make your own), and string it like a Rickenbacker with the thicker string of the octave pairs on the bass side, rather the treble side. This would then allow for full intonation with the bridge as-is, but if you can tap out the extra holes, then that would be a cheaper and far easier option than investing in nut files and making your own reverse slot nut. Even if you got a L/H 12-string nut, you'd probably find the slots were angled incorrectly, so you'd still need access to nut files to correct that.

Thanks for that, Simon!

I'd looked at the whole PBG catalogue a couple of times over and managed to miss these other 12-string options! It's quite tempting, but I'd only get them if they can guarantee the kit sent won't have the issues I found on the previous ones.

Also, the information on the page is contradictory, because the says it's basswood, and the product description says it's ash, and the photos don't really match the kit. There are also a couple of other options to consider (quilt or flame maple veneer)... so some food for thought there.

About the bridge, I'd bother a couple of friends that might have a tap, otherwise I did a quick search and found the actual Gotohs go from around AUD50 from the UK, or a Chinese version is about 20 bucks.

I won't rush into this decision as I'm still quite put down by my experience so far. I have to say though PGB has handled the situation extremely well throughout the ordeal.

Cheers!