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Hi guys, I have a kit that came with a 2 post tremolo with a post spacing of around 60mm. I was thinking of running it until it needed replacing. Only problem is it there doesn't seem to be anything like it with a 60mm spacings they are all 56mm.
Does anyone know a manufacture that makes a 60mm spacing trem or am I better off fitting the 6 screw Fender type one? That's if the saddle heights are the same. Thanks, Rod.
What’s the saddle string spacing on that trem? Just wondering if that’s wider than normal as well.
Depending on where you're at with the build, would it be worth just plugging the holes and re-drilling to 56mm?
It would really open up your options now and in future.
10.5mm Simon.
I'm thinking the same McCreed. I have to drill the post holes yet so all good there. Might even go for the 6 screw one if it measures up..
From searching the web, it seems Squier use a 60mm post spacing (or even 63mm - I've seen both figures used) but that's about it. And I don't think you can get Squier bridges easily, and I doubt they'd be better than your current one.
I prefer the wider spacing as it moves the posts outward a bit and more of the post is supported by the full thickness of the body.
But to get a better quality bridge, plugging and redrilling will be the best option. Just be careful to fully support the underside of the trem claw route when putting the post inserts in, or you could end up doing what I did:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...922/tYFGl2.jpg
Also, you need to check the depth of the inserts against the depth of the body, as you don't want the posts poking through the bottom of the trem claw cavity as the dimensions of your kit may not be the same as those of a Fender. I filed down my inserts to give me a 2mm thickness at the bottom of the holes. You may also need to file down the end of the posts so they don't push through the wood if the posts end up sitting really low in the shortened inserts.
Great tips there Simon...thanks! Just checked and the inserts are 22mm long and the guitar body where they go into is 20mm.
Thanks again Simon..
I've seen some Wilkinson 2-point trems quoted as fitting 53mm to 63mm post spacing, but I don't see how that's physically possible.
https://www.guitarfetish.com/Wilkins...ome_p_895.html
The bass side semi-circular notch determines where the bridge will sit in relation to the guitar centreline. It will be designed for a 56mm post spacing. so if you try and fit it on a 60mm post spacing, the bottom E saddle will sit 2mm further towards the bass side, bulling all the strings across the neck at an angle. The flat blade pivot on the treble side might mean you don't need to be as accurate with your post positioning on that side, but the bas side post needs to be in just the right position. Which with pre-drilled 60mm spacing it won't be.
To be suitable for a wide range of post spacings, you'd need to be able to move the saddles sideways. And as there's only a single plate with screw holes through it for locating the saddles, you can't do that. You'd need two plates, one sitting on top of the other, with the saddles affixed to the top plate and the top plate able to slide sideways over the bottom plate and be fixed down firmly.
The holes haven't been drilled yet Simon, so I'm ok there. I have to work out how much tolerance to give the insert holes. I saw that Wilkinson one you mentioned. As you said, I can't work out how they can get that 10mm adjustment when the pivot holes are set in the trem.
I'm still thinking the 6 screw trem might be better. Just have to clamp in the neck and see how high the saddles need to be.
My inserts (Wilkinson) measured 9.8mm wide over the splines. I read somewhere on-line that a 'letter' series 'S' drill was the right one for hard woods (about 9.35mm dia), So I bought one of those (expensive) but that was too small, so I used a 9.5mm drill. The insert went in very tightly (despite the wood splitting) and I definitely needed my stud puller to remove it. You really want the hole size to match the diameter of the solid part of the inserts, so it's just the splines that are forced into the wood otherwise you increase the risk of the wood splitting, though with a softer wood than Ash like Basswood, you can compress it a bit more.
Thanks again Simon. I will check the size with the calipers tomorrow..
I've seen those and wondered the same thing. Glad it's not just me. I feel better knowing you find it a head-scratcher too Simon.Quote:
I've seen some Wilkinson 2-point trems quoted as fitting 53mm to 63mm post spacing, but I don't see how that's physically possible.
By "better" do you mean installation-wise? If you're referring to performance, two-point is "better" IMO. I'm not huge vibrato player, but my one strat that I have set up for it, is two-point. All my vintage-style (6 screw) vibratos are decked/blocked.Quote:
I'm still thinking the 6 screw trem might be better. Just have to clamp in the neck and see how high the saddles need to be.
A 6-screw trem is really 2-point, as it should be set up so that it's the two outer screws that it all pivots on. But the two-points have thinner knife edges, so they are a bit more accurate.
Technically, as long as the bass post is in the correct position on those Wilkinson trems, then the post distance can vary by that amount, but that is rather stretching the reality of the situation that if you've got post holes 30mm either side of the centre line, and not 28mm (bass) and 32mm (treble) then it will be all wonky. It's the truth, but not the whole truth.
That's what I'm thinking McCreed. Easier to install. I might end up selling this guitar so don't want to spend to much on it. I can't fit that rubbish trem that came with the kit...it's junk.Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
I can't see any local suppliers in Aus that have a cheaper 2 post trem, only 6 hole. Plenty in China though but a month wait.
I didn't realise they are only suppose to pivot on the outer screws. I thought it was the 6. The search continues..Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Barden
Can you elaborate, please?Quote:
A 6-screw trem is really 2-point, as it should be set up so that it's the two outer screws that it all pivots on. But the two-points have thinner knife edges, so they are a bit more accurate.
Presumably if the six holes are drilled in a line accurately, theoretically wouldn't there would be equal contact between the plate and shaft of the screws?
Have you tried Realtone? I've found their home-brand stuff to be very good quality.Quote:
I can't see any local suppliers in Aus that have a cheaper 2 post trem, only 6 hole. Plenty in China though but a month wait.
This vibrato is 54mm string spacing, so don't know if it will work for you. $69 HERE
Thanks McCreed. I saw that one there but need it in black.Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
Realtone a great to deal with. Bought a heap of pickups and bits and pieces from them then realised Pit Bull were cheaper with PUs. Next day delivery here to the coast..
Ahhh yes, didn't think about the black...
Think I will keep searching for a 2 post trem. As you said McCreed. If I fit a 56mm centre post it can be replaced down the track with something decent later if needed..Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
OK, with some more thought, maybe the 6-screw trem pivoting on the two outer screws isn't as straightforward )or correct) as I had read it was (i.e. I'm wrong). The idea is that the four inner screws don't get screwed down as far as the two outer screws, so they determine the height of the trem (correct) and so the trem should really then just pivot on those outer screws (incorrect). However I have seen it described in guitar magazines like that in the past, so I've carried it along with me as gospel, without any critical thinking on my part.
It could happen if the screws had a taper in width over their solid upper part, so that winding the screws out moved the body of the screw away from the side of the trem holes, but that's not the way the screws are made. You'd also be reliant in the six screw holes being drilled in a perfect straight line and not affected by the wood grain at all, but any one of those screw holes being slightly further back than the others and the trem would pivot on that screw (though it then may only pivot on one other screw as a result).
Which probably means in reality (because those screw holes won't be drilled in a perfect straight line and variations in screw width and the edges of the plate screw hole) that trem plate probably does only pivot fully on less than the full number of screws present (maybe two or three), but may touch some others as the trem plate angles. It will only take a gap of a very small fraction of a mm for the trem plate not to rest against a screw.
However, I've just done a test on my 6-hole Wilkinson trem equipped Strat for electrical continuity between the trem plate and the screws. The screws are only screwed into wood, so there shouldn't be any continuity between the trem plate and a screw if its not touching. But all six of my screws buzzed out, both with the inner 4 screws at their normal 1mm raised height, and then with them screwed out to 5mm.
OK, they could be touching at the sides, rather than the back of the holes, but it doesn't look like it. And the pressure of the plate on the screws and contact area will no doubt vary as well, but in this instance, I'd have to admit that it does look like the trem pivots on all six screws.
Of course this may not be the case for every 6-screw trem because of the reasons I've given above, especially with the very wonky screw holes you get on pre-drilled kit guitars that aren't using CNC machines. But the force of the trem plate on the screws will also push the screws forward in the wood a bit (depending on the hardness of the wood), so it's far more likely that they then line up with all (or almost all) of the screws touching the trem plate. My Jap Strat has a basswood body, so that's quite soft. I'll dig out the DG Strat which has an alder body and test that in the same way.
My basic understanding here was definitely faulty. Glad this has come up!
It would certainly be possible to drill the two outer screw holes very slightly further back than the four centre holes, so the trem definitely only rested on them, if the hole diameter in the trem plate allowed this without the four other screws then touching the front of the trem hole and messing up the trem operation.
You could only fit the two outer screws, but this may lead to excessive wear around the screw area over time. You'd probably be happy to fit something non-moving with the same two smallish screws, but add in the trem action and it's probably not a good idea.
Or half-blind Aussie with a "she'll be right" kind of work ethic! (that's only half true btw :o)Quote:
Of course this may not be the case for every 6-screw trem because of the reasons I've given above, especially with the very wonky screw holes you get on pre-drilled kit guitars that aren't using CNC machines.
This discussion also got me thinking about different screw sizes, positions, hole shapes in the plate etc just like you mentioned above.
I reckon that's just how (whoever) came up with the two-point vibrato design in the first place!
I just wish Fender (or whoever instigated things but everyone refers to 56mm as 'Fender spacing') had used trem posts that were wider spaced so the inserts didn't 3/4 sit over the trem claw cavity with the inserts at risk of poking out the bottom. I know it would have looked quite odd and you couldn't use a standard Strat scratchplate, but having to design a slightly different scratchplate shouldn't have stopped a manufacturer taking doing the technically better option.
It would also allow the saddles to be moved forwards that bit further if necessary, without risk of the high E saddle catching on the post, and a bigger manufacturing allowance in fore/aft placement of the post holes.