St. Vincent itch

Now I've got tools and materials, I've got a weird impulsive enabler. Woke up this morning and decided I needed to build this MM signature model from scratch.

https://i.imgur.com/qsrZULq.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/7BjU6pk.jpg

It's about an inch narrower than intended, constrained by the paulownia slab I'm working with.

It's going to be an interesting weight challenge, assuming I don't pivot to a heavier wood. Currently the body is 1054g. An S-style PB neck with stock paddle weighs in at 634g. I'll need to make some smart hardware choices methinks, especially as I'll be taking some weight off the body for comfort and stylistic purposes.

Thinking about acquiring an MM-style neck (4+2), but also wondering if I could take a whole tele-style approach, neck and bridge plate and all. However, still not quite sure about paulownia's ability to hold screws with bearing, so also thinking about a bridge and tailpiece solution with posts...

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I'd trust screws more than post inserts in a light wood like paulownia. Bridge posts aren't an issue as almost all the force is downwards, with just a bit of fore-and-aft pressure at times when tuning or bending strings. But the stop tailpiece post inserts have to counter the string pull towards the neck and also upwards to the bridge. I think paulownia is the wood that the Pit Bull hollow and semi-hollows have bridge blocks made out of, and it's never particularly impressed me as being very strong, so have always used the longest inserts I can find for the stop tailpiece.

Don't forget that with a Fender style bridge, you can always use longer fixing screws of the same diameter for a bit more grip and load spreading. The standard ones are typically about half the body depth, so you can normally add an extra cm or so to the screw length if you want to (plus it adds slightly more mass to the body :) ). And with string-through bridge, the strings are also helping to hold the bridge in place.

The St Vincent is certainly a weird body shape, but the more I see it, the more it grows on me. Certainly I much prefer it to the MM Albert Lee body shape.

I don't mind the Albert Lee (or the Mariposa), but the St Vincent shape grew on me too. Particularly when I realised it was larger than I thought at first glance, and that it can look quite metal strapped on.

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Thanks for the post hole info. Food for thought.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

And with string-through bridge, the strings are also helping to hold the bridge in place.

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Yep, this also occurred to me after I posted. Possibly a nice chunky Babicz FCH will be called for here...

Mucking around with the MM headstock on a PB paddle. I reckon I can make it work. A little bit more finessing, and a plan to cover the filled 5th hole with a decal perhaps.

https://i.imgur.com/ZJNgOAg.jpg

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by dozymuppet

...still not quite sure about paulownia's ability to hold screws with bearing, so also thinking about a bridge and tailpiece solution with posts...

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I was worried about this too for my paulownia bass project, so I did some testing. I have a bunch of 9mm paulownia boards lying around that I screwed together to make the width of a paulownia body. I attached a heavy bridge to it using the 4, thin 26mm screws. these seem light and short to me, and I had been considering using longer, thicker ones.

The bridge allows me to do either string-through or string-on-top, so I tested both ways. Both tests involved stringing with bass strings, 34" long, and tuned 3 half-steps high (G,C,F,B-flat). Every time I thought about it, I grabbed the jig by the strings and shook it a few times to simulate hard play. After surviving 2 weeks of this string-through, it survived about 6 weeks string-on-top. Screws did not budge. The string tension warped the plywood that the paulownia was attached to just a bit, but both the paulownia and the screws stayed nicely fastened to each other.

I was worried enough about this to get a bridge that would accommodate string through, so I'll build that way. But FWIW, I don't think it's necessary. With a Fender-style bridge, stock or slightly larger screws should be fine.

Some pics of my testing jig here if you are intersted:

https://www.buildyourownguitar.com.a...t=10529&page=3

Thanks f3x, that gives me some comfort (though I'm still likely to go with the string-through option as well anyway).

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Hey DM, I wanted to do a similar thing with the headstock of a 4 string fretless build. Handmade a plug and covered both front and back with some maple headstock veneer. Even at close inspection its almost impossible to tell its veneer.

Before
Attachment 40432

After
Attachment 40433

Finished
Attachment 40434

Cheers
rob

Very nice work. Did you sand off a mm or anything from the headstock before affixing the veneer?

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That is really nicely done, Robin!

No DM, no extra sanding other than to get a finish with some "toothe" that the glue could bind to. The headstock veneer that I used is the ultra thin stuff. Way, way less than 1mm thick. Its purely cosmetic and doesn't need to be any thicker.

Thanks fender ;)

Yep, I've got some 0.7mm maple, so that would do the trick.

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I think mine was even thinner than that. The veneer has to shape/conform to the shape of the headstock where it transitions through the truss rod area up to the nut. I used a homemade caul (I think that's what they are called) to clamp the veneer in place after gluing.

This is from an earlier TL build showing the caul.
Attachment 40435

All clamped together
Attachment 40436

Nice set up. Now that I think off it though, that might be tricky if I go with a rosewood fretboard.

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Nah, the bass has a rosewood fingerboard. A nice clean cut where the veneer joins FB, smooth it out with a bit of sanding, and cover it with Tru-oil or your finish of choice and you won't even see the transition line. ;)

im so glad to see you making this guitar.
ive been looking for a st vincent kit for a while and have been considering how to butcher a kit already available to make the shape.
there is the EXA kit in the pitbull shop that ive been thinking about. but dont know how i would get the MM headstock right with it.....

I don't think you could quite use the EX as a starting point. Most importantly, there isn't enough in the top "horn" to work with, as well as the top "waist" being a bit too close to the bridge pickup. But it might be possible to come up with something else cool.

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Progress. Much easier to work with than the sheoak in my other thread, but I may pay for that later when it gets to finishing and body mass.

https://i.imgur.com/oBxpABD.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/bwJ350O.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/WsuTEy4.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/CHig5dh.jpg



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Progress. Body mass is under 1kg now...

https://i.imgur.com/9xjebt1.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/r1bBqvb.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/dJ613eX.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/koFZf7v.jpg

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Looking good Dozy!

Aha! Ignore my reply on the other thread - makes sense now!

Cunning. I never thought of doing it that way.

Yep, it helps make the carving job a lot more accurate and efficient.

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Reference if you're interested https://www.instagram.com/p/COVYuTSH...dium=copy_link

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All cavities routed, all holes drilled, and edges bevelled.

https://i.imgur.com/T52OX1u.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/v6BEesF.jpg

Next step: Sanding (+ sourcing some hardware bits and pieces).

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Looking good. How did you cut the switch slot?

I drilled a series of small holes, then Stanley blade (Paulownia is soft) and a small file.

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Looks tight Dozy! Can't wait to see this one fully adorned.

I posted a question about hardness of paulownia to a luthier's forum that is run by the Crystalac people. Someone called frets4vets.org posted this:

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Next time you do pawlonia, after staining use a penetrating resin like miwax wood hardener or even a coat of teak oil to help harden the fibers. That will make BT[*] and any other crystalac product work better on pawlonia

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Too late on my current build, but may be useful to this build. The Minwax product is fairly pricy, and is really toxit. You can't even use this stuff with latex gloves because it will dissolve them...which probably means that I would not have used it even if I had heard of it first.

I know there are other products like "PC Petrifier" that are water-based and much less toxic...but maybe not as good at penetrating, and I am not sure it's suitable for clear finishes. Plus it does not work with some fillers...so lots of provisos.

https://www.pcepoxy.com/products/woo.../pc-petrifier/

This stuff is used (as is Minwax) by people who make "paper beads" and so I think it should finish clear, but would need to try it to know whether it's good for luthiers or to harden wood like paulownia.

I have not used either of these products, but just putting it forward in the FWIW categories.

I love the way Paulownia looks finished clear. Still working on getting it to be a bit more resistant to dings and nicks.



*Brite Tone (Crystalac clear coat)

Interesting. Looks like we can get something similar at the big green shed: https://www.timbermate.com.au/our-pr...wood-hardener/

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by dozymuppet

Interesting. Looks like we can get something similar at the big green shed: https://www.timbermate.com.au/our-pr...wood-hardener/

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I don't think I can get that here, but I'll keep looking if I do another paulownia body. I like the way it's applied with a spray bottle. Much less viscous than the PC Petrifier. I'd guess that would be better for new wood.

Resurrecting this one.

https://i.imgur.com/pzcJdS3.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/vCKIDJu.jpeg

The paulownia was too flimsy by itself (fine with a drop top, I guess) and the cut was a bit too small.

I also tried using some American White Oak, but heavy AF, hard to work, and I had a router tear out.

Found a cheap piece of Red Oak. At least 20% lighter than the AWO, and easier to work (bit more like Ash).

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From the Wood Database:

Grain is straight, with a coarse, uneven texture. The pores are so large and open that it is said that a person can blow into one end of the wood, and air will come out the other end: provided that the grain runs straight enough.

http://youtu.be/CeDWxd0t9rw

Well that's odd. Not sure what I'll do with that knowledge [emoji14]

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Maybe you should leave a 20mm square patch unfinished on either end of the guitar, then if you are ever trapped in a flooding room with the guitar, you can use it as a breathing tube to gain extra time.

This is a cool body shape and new wood has piqued my interest again.

Putting together a parts shopping list, and thinking of using the two gold Warman Firebuckers on this. Inspired by BD's StrassV, I'm thinking of plonking a single coil sized pickup in between them.

The Firebuckers have 6.6 output each. From the Warman options, I'm looking at:
- Destroyer single coil (https://www.warmanguitars.co.uk/prod...r-hsh-guitars/), which is made for HSH, and has 5.8 output.
- Peacemaker twin rail (https://www.warmanguitars.co.uk/prod...tput-and-tone/), "warm", with 7.3 output
- Twin Loco hot rail (https://www.warmanguitars.co.uk/prod...kup-14-1kohms/), with a whopping 14.1 output

There are good cases for all of these. With a twin rail, I was intending to using a separate volume pot, with push pull for single coil. I kinda feel like that may be useless on the Peacemaker, but would be great on the Twin Loco.

Any advice or opinions welcome.

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I'd look at the Henries rather than the DCR for an idea of respective output levels. The Destroyer (3.2H) is the pickup most closely matched to the FireBucker II output (3.1H). The Peacemaker is significantly hotter (4.73H) and the Twin Loco (9.86H).

The FireBucker II pickups should be relatively 'Stratty' in sound, so with a relatively well output matched single coil in the mid position you should be able to get some good Strat-style mixed position sounds.

My only concern is that the FireBucker II pairs are the same pickup for neck and bridge. You can of course have the bridge one set significantly higher than the neck to try and balance the outputs, but sometimes that's not really possible. A polepiece-less FireBucker (3.5H) would probably be a better fit in the bridge. It's a shame they don't sell them singly (though you could make up two mini-humbucker sets). But maybe think of a full-sized humbucker in the bridge? Just putting some ideas forwards.

Are you planning all direct mounts for the pups, or a half guard like some of the st V's ? Only thought here, without knowing those pups, is to experiment with different configurations. Loaded guard kind of thing...drop in and out until you find what you like