2nd scratch build - Precipice

Howdeee all :)

So, I'm kinda tackling 3 builds at once (although my next kit hasn't shipped yet, hopefully this week)

This thread covers the build of a Cliffenbacker.

My journey began with an ill fated trip to a timber merchant. I was looking for rock maple and Ovangkol. Well the price for the maple was a bit absurd, and I knew where I could get it at a better price... for larger pieces. They didn't have any Ovangkol that was close to what I needed, the closest they has was a piece about 2 or 3 times as much as I wanted. When I inquired about it I was told that their next shipment will be their last, and that the timber had been listed. I went home empty handed, but the thought that I would not be able to get it again kinda stuck in my mind. The next day, in the rain (the beginning of the Sydney floods), I drove back out there and paid the ridiculous amount asked for the timber. I then found out that it wasn't listed, but three other species of the same genus (traded as Bubinga) had been. Not only that, but Ovangkol was listed as sustainable and "a species of least interest".

Most of the luthiery community call it Shedua. The reason for wanting this timber, is that that is what Rickenbacker were using as the central laminate of the mid to late 70s 4001s. I figured on using it for finger boards for this and the other scratch build.

But wait, there's more! I took it to the "Shed" to get a hand re sawing it on the big band saw into the pieces I needed. Sadly my guitar making pal wasn't there that day. The old fart who was going to help me, and with no clue what the timber was informed me "can't do it, it's hardwood." . Yeh, some help that was. He wanted to do what was convenient for him and have me wast expensive timber by cutting the whole thing in half, then making a few passes through the table saw to free the pieces I needed. Rather than do that, I suggested I don't cut it in half, do the cuts he suggested, which would leave a 30mm strip of timber to be cut through to free the slab. Again "can't do that, it's hardwood" . So in the end I didn't even get to use the table saw and ended up wasting my morning getting nothing done. I ended up doing what I suggested at home on my dodgy table saw and freeing the slab with a reciprocating saw.

The fence on my saw wasn't stable enough for what I needed to so, so the cuts weren't square to the edge of the timber.What I ended up with was a bit of a mess and not all the strips were thick enough for the centre strip (one piece was). The rest was still thick enough for fret boards. A few days later my guitar building partner in crime helped me run them through the thicknesser to clean them up. here's what I ended up with:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...080&fit=bounds

Pics of the rock maple we picked up last week will be posted in my first scratch build thread tomorrow night after I have photographed them ;) .

Hey Rabbit, If you are ever stuck for getting that sort of resaw stuff done, the Lab is happy to assist, if Glebe is in close enough proximity.
I’ve fairly successfully resawn old hardwoods at my saw’s maximum 8” capacity.

Thanx for the offer Franky :D . It turns out that amongst the half dozen different bandsaws the shed has, there is a more substantial one in a back room that the old coot didn't bother to mention. I found out about it when we got our Maple because that's what the other guitar builder is going to use to resaw some maple tops.As for the rest of the two builds I don't need to resaw anything that wide. As it turns out, I was being a bit wasteful thinking I needed to make 100mm thick blanks. Both basses I'm building will fit within 50mm.

The shed has rules to stop people from using tools they haven't been assessed on. Once I get assessed on some of the bigger tools I should be able to just get on with things.

So things are underway, but not going quite to plan. collecting the hardware is a bit more of a challenge on this one.

In terms of the woodwork, I got as far as gluing up a neck blank for two basses(some may have already seen this pic on my other thread):

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...gh_glue_up.jpg]

And after separating them, the one on the right *was* to be the blank for Precipice the Clifenbacker:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...ugh_blanks.jpg

Unfortunately, I marked a couple of lines, one I'm kinda not sure what it was for, the other was for the length of the blank. Guess which line I cut? Yeh, I was about 100mm too short :mad:

Luckily, I have enough timber left to glue up another blank, but the centre stripe will be about 1mm narrower than a 70s Ric had. I don't feel like cutting up the 200mm, 12mm thick slab I have left over from cutting my original 4 strips of varying thicknesses.

So I now have a blank of sorts, I just need to dress the sides with the thicknesser. Some fabric dye came yesterday.My plan was to dye the white pup covers I'd bought. When I was racing off road electric buggies we used to dye the nylon gears with fabric dye. Simon in another thread expressed some doubts as to the effectiveness of trying to dye plastic (perhaps I should call him Thomas?:p)

The instructions are a little vauge. They tell you how much fabric you can dye with a packet, but no indication what so ever on how much water to use. The stuff I would normally use didn't come in a deep red. On the plus side it says on the packet "will also dye most plastics, acrylics, vinyls and other synthetic materials, such as 3D printed objects, frisbee discs , wigs, buttons and more."

My first attempt was a bit of a disaster. I boiled the dye mix, threw in the parts ans simmered for 30 mins. They cam out warped and twisted, and almost black. Since I had 3 of the strat covers I waited for it to cool a little, poured off some of the solution, added some water and threw in a strat cover.
It came out the right colour more or less, but there was clumps of solid dye that left dark blotches on the part. I poured it off into a glass bottle and let it settle over night.

I poured off the solution from the bottle into a saucepan the next day, and threw in the remaining covers. Not much was happeneineg. You definatly need to heat this stuff up for it to work. I heated the solution, not to boiling, took it off the heat and let it soak for a while, stitrring and checking the colour every so often.Here's what I ended up with:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...pup_covers.jpg

Simons' idea of using the same stain as the varnish for the bass wouldn't have worked on the original covers, since they are black. I can't easily get the strat cover off (it's kinda epoxied to the pickup), and the cover has threads on it, I didn't realise that covers were part of pickup assembly, I thought they covered the covers:confused: . The jazz pickup comes out of it's cover, the strat pup doesn't. I'll have to cut the top of the cover and glue it to the top of the cover already on the pup. You only get a glimpse of the top anyway, lurking underneath the bridge with the muting foam removed.

The Strat pickup is probably fully wax potted, and it's the wax that's holding the cover on. It could be glued on, but that's very unlikely.

It should come off with constant prying between the base plate and the cover. If not, you could try heating it up with a hairdryer until you start to see melted wax dripping out, and then you can quickly pry the cover off. But it needs to be pretty warm to do that so it may distort the pickup cover and some thin latex/PVC/nitrile gloves are recommended to give at lest some protection from the heat whilst allowing you to grip firmly.

You won't damage the pickup provided you use just enough heat to soften and just start to melt the wax. You can of course try pulling before you see any melted wax, as it will soften.

It could be that it's just the windings and the tape that are pressing against the side of the cover. With a stacked pickup, you've got to fit two coils in the space you normally fit one, so the windings will occupy all of the bobbin capacity. If it is a proper SD stacked pickup, then I can't see them ever gluing the cover on as it would make the pickup unrepairable. So I'd strongly suggest either wax, the cover being pushed on over a very fully wound bobbin, or a combination of both.

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

The Strat pickup is probably fully wax potted, and it's the wax that's holding the cover on. It could be glued on, but that's very unlikely.

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Actually the edge of the bottom of the bobbin was glued... definitely not wax. Seemed a bit like cyano. But since you gave me inspiration, I tried to gently break the seal with a small Swiss Army knife. That worked. Thanx for the heads up. :D

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

With a stacked pickup, you've got to fit two coils in the space you normally fit one, so the windings will occupy all of the bobbin capacity. If it is a proper SD stacked pickup, then I can't see them ever gluing the cover on as it would make the pickup unrepairable. So I'd strongly suggest either wax, the cover being pushed on over a very fully wound bobbin, or a combination of both.

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Erm, yes and no. the pup is taller than a standard strat pup as far as I can tell. The cover fits, but it's not long deep enough. That's fine, no one will see it any way. Being a stacked pup I don't think I need to shield the cavity for it, and if I do I can always wrap the exposed part with electrical tape.

Glued on? Who'd have thought it. At least it was just a small blob. Glad you managed to separate it without too much trauma!

The cover's plastic, so it's not doing any shielding itself, so copper foil shielding the cavity can only help, even if the pickup is humbucking. Because on any humbucker with two coils, the coils are physically separated, any noise signals they pick up will have slightly different amplitudes and phase. So the noise never cancels out 100%, though it can be greatly reduced.

Shielding and reducing the noise that gets to the pickups is always beneficial, especially if you are currently in an environment that is generally electrically low noise, so it seems very quiet, but then play somewhere else where there is more noise and some hum does become apparent.

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

Shielding and reducing the noise that gets to the pickups is always beneficial, especially if you are currently in an environment that is generally electrically low noise, so it seems very quiet, but then play somewhere else where there is more noise and some hum does become apparent.

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I'll probably shield it, just because I can, but at the end of the day , aside from just messing about, I'll probably never use it. It's there because Cliff put it there, but personally I'll probably be leaning on the hot stacked jazz pup mostly. I ordered another fake Mudbucker. Will be interesting to see how it sounds with an effect in my amp called Hesher :cool: . Still trying to track down a couple of 330k volume pots. I've seen 300k, but no 330k.

Personally I'd fit 500k pots. Various forums talk about the Ric 330k pot having a measured value that's normally just below 500k, so maybe their agreement with CTS was to badge up 500k pots that measured slightly below 500k with their '330k' part number (also to put people off mimicking their circuit, so copies using real 330k pots have a lower value than Ric use)?

It makes sense to me to use 500k pots because the way Ric wire their control circuits, the two volume pots are always in parallel and so the pickups always see a 250k resistance to ground. It's like wiring a 500k resistor across a 500k pot to get a 250k pot.

Real 330k pots would have an equivalent resistance of 165k ohms, which is low, even for a single coil, and would knock off a lot of treble.

I think I've said elsewhere that I fitted 1 Meg volume pots in a Ric 650D (mini humbuckers) that had 250k pots, and got all the missing jangle back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

Personally I'd fit 500k pots. Various forums talk about the Ric 330k pot having a measured value that's normally just below 500k, so maybe their agreement with CTS was to badge up 500k pots that measured slightly below 500k with their '330k' part number (also to put people off mimicking their circuit, so copies using real 330k pots have a lower value than Ric use)?

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yes, but, according to sources:

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

I've just read that the volume pots in Cliff's bass are 330k ones not 250k, which seems reasonable as they have used those value pots.

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My understanding of Rics is growing all the time. Although made by CTS, Ric pots have special Ric part numbers on, not standard CTS ones. So whilst he may have had pots fitted that had the code that Ric say indicated 330k, in reality the actual pot value, if measured, would probably have been in the 460k-490k range.

Most pots have a ±20% tolerance, so 330k could be in theory be anywhere between 264k to 396k, though most pots do read very close to the nominal value. But even 396k is still a long way from the 490k that people have measured on the '330k' pots. Without having his actual bass to measure the values from, we'll never know.

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

Without having his actual bass to measure the values from, we'll never know.

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Sounds like I will have to break boarder control, sneak onto a flight to 'merica and break into the rock'n'roll hall of fame with a multi metre ......

Ok, so I had orderd another Artec "Mudbucker" after the first one turned out to be completely out of spec and suspiciously dodgy. It came today, wrapped in bubble wrap, then alfoil, more bubble wrap, cloth, more foil, and finally foam. With that level of effort in packaging I was encouraged. What was under all that wrapping was a pickup that actually matched the picture in the add, and more importantly, has the correct impedance.. 30k not 1.2k! Again like the last one it only had two mags and not the 4 that I had seen on a dissection and "upgrade" post on another forum, but that's ok... I believe there are two models of the Artec sidewinder, so the mags may not be the same. Should sound "muddy", which is kinda the point. One more piece of the Cliffenbacker falls into place....

As the original has only two magnets, it should sound closer than the four-magnet version. DCR value sounds promising too. Onwards and upwards!

Well with another 2 weeks lock down I can't get to my neckthrough blank or wing timber, I still need to order pots and caps, and two of the tuners are still being manufactured. But I did get some paint to play with. I used some maple scrap to try stuff out:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds

Using a UV stabilised architectural grade water borne urethane clear :

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds

(don't get too excited Simon :p) I sealed the timber. The manufacturer claims it can be used as a primer. :

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds

As you can see it's nice and clear with very little if any yellowing.The idea was rather than stain I was going candy. I looked at the list of candies in the range of the manufacturer I was using, and couldn't find one the right colour. I figured I'd have to "coctail" as they say in the custom paint scene. I picked a red called Dirt Track Brown, and a Black which is more of a deep purple. This is what the advertised spray out of the Dirt Track Brown looks like:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds

and this is what I got on the Maple after 3 coats:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds

It was cleared using the same stuff I sealed with. If I was to sand and buff I could probably get a more candy like effect.I also discoverd I had already another red called Red Oxide. I don't know why I had this, but this is what the advertised spray out looks like:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds

And here is what I got after 3 coats :

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds

The over spray of the two one on top of the other looked promising, so I sprayed a 50:50 mix:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds

I did try a 5:1 mix of Dirt Track Brown to Black, but it was way too dark. Here's what I am aiming for:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds

That's the original at the Rock'n'Roll Hall of Fame. I'm thinking the Dirt Track Brown will be fine on it's own.

Interesting. Do you need a white or silver base to get the full candy effect?

The DTB looks to be a pretty good match for the colour in the photo.

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

Interesting. Do you need a white or silver base to get the full candy effect?

The DTB looks to be a pretty good match for the colour in the photo.

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Depending on the effect you want, a strait up candy requires no base. A metalic silver gives a nice effect:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albu...720&fit=bounds

A true candy apple effect (red or green) is shot over a gold base. True fire involves red candy over a orange base, then orange candy over an orange base, orange candy over a yellow base, and yellow candy over a yellow base :

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albu...720&fit=bounds

Blue fire is over white and blue, and green fire over white and yellow:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albu...720&fit=bounds

OK, so candy is basically a transparent tint and any metallic effect is obtained from a metallic base. So what effect do you get from it over a Metallica Bass? ;)

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

OK, so candy is basically a transparent tint and any metallic effect is obtained from a metallic base. So what effect do you get from it over a Metallica Bass? ;)

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Essentially the same as staining. These candies are not different to a stain, but in a pint system they are mixed with a clear carrier, in this case clear coat. The candies as are could probably be mixed with alcohol or the paint system's reducer and used as a stain. There are two main characteristics of a true candy. Like a stain they are transparent, and second, they get darker with each coat. A stain generally reaches saturation, candies just keep getting darker till they become basically black to the eye.

Did you paint those examples above???

And what is the blue box?
It looks like a tower hard drive.

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Originally Posted by McCreed

Did you paint those examples above???

And what is the blue box?
It looks like a tower hard drive.

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Yes I did paint those. and the Tower *case* contains a computer with two hard drives I was given the empty case and had to completely dismantle it, strip it back to bare metal, cold gal the inside, paint the outside, and re-riveted (all 90 of them).

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Originally Posted by Rabbit

Yes I did paint those. and the Tower *case* contains a computer with two hard drives I was given the empty case and had to completely dismantle it, strip it back to bare metal, cold gal the inside, paint the outside, and re-riveted (all 90 of them).

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Now that's dedication to a project!

Nice airbrushing. I never graduated beyond stick figures when comes to that sort of drawing/painting.

Can't get to my timber 'cause it's at the Men's Shed, which is closed due to Covid. Hardware is slowly trickling in. Fret wire came in yesterday. Here's what I have so far:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds

All that's left is for me to order some pick guard material, three 500k pots, a 500k push/pull pot, three caps (older Rics had 3 not 2 apparently), and a 3 way switch. Not sure if I should use log taper for all 4 pots or if I should use linear for the tone pots.. the Ric scematic doen''t specify.

Next week I'll attempt to make the bezel for what would normally be the bridge pickup out of 0.9mm stainless. Buying a bezel is way too expensive.

What am I missing? Why is there a strat pickup in a bass build?

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Originally Posted by McCreed

What am I missing? Why is there a strat pickup in a bass build?

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Because it's a copy of a Cliff Burton of Metallica bass that had a bridge Strat pickup added for an even brighter sound (and a neck mudbucker for an even duller one).

You can see the cover for it being sprayed in post #5

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

Because it's a copy of a Cliff Burton of Metallica bass that had a bridge Strat pickup added for an even brighter sound (and a neck mudbucker for an even duller one).

You can see the cover for it being sprayed in post #5

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Okay, well that's different! I know who Cliff Burton is (was) but I'm not a big Metallica fan.
Has anyone else ever done that, or was he the first?

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Originally Posted by McCreed

What am I missing? Why is there a strat pickup in a bass build?

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Because it's a Clifenbacker

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds

Since it's a copy of Cliff's Rickenbacker, it will be named Precipice :p .

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Since it's a copy of Cliff's Rickenbacker, it will be named Precipice

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Took me a minute, but I got it...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by McCreed

Took me a minute, but I got it...

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You've still got that edge...

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

You've still got that edge...

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or over it........

Yeah, over the edge is more like it!

I decided to make a fret board smoothing block. First attempts were not great:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds

With the pine block I was using a 50mm round bit and I guess I forgot to secure the depth. That 2 inch bit has a lot of mass and once it gets going its a bit of a wrecking ball. The second attempts I used some scrap from the neck blank, laminated some extra thickness to the bottom, got through the side routing ok, but didn't do a very good job securing the piece when doing the radius. The piece leaned into the bit and got spat out.

Third time lucky, one Rickenbacker smoothing block:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds

Ok technically not a Ric block, Ricks have a 10inch radius, and this is 12. Here we have Mapleglo:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds

and Burgundyglo:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds

It was a good opportunity to check the colour on a larger piece and see how it would look with the centre stripe, which is why I painted it rather than just clearing it.

Nice work Rabbit. (well, on the third one anyway... :p)

How long are those? They look shorter than commercially available ones I've seen.

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Originally Posted by McCreed

Nice work Rabbit. (well, on the third one anyway... :p)

How long are those? They look shorter than commercially available ones I've seen.

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Thanx :D . It's 150mm long and will have a velcro backing stuck to it so I can use 150mm ROS pads. What you have seen, the long ones are used for shaping the radius from a blank. Since I use a jig to machine the fret board radius, all I need is a curved block with a finer grit to smooth any machine marks. Doesn't even have to be curved, it could be flat and still do the job. I just went through the exercise because lockdown :p .

Longer is always better for levelling things out. That's why smoothing planes are the longest type of plane. If you can, I really would use a longer block.

yeh, smoothing, not levelling. 150mm is long enough and still nice and manageable for it's purpose, which is why I don't use a 150mm file instead of a 600mm levelling beam when levelling frets :p

And levelling. Same thing. You want to keep the surface flat and smooth and correctly shaped, you go as long as you can.

More goodies arrived.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds

That's about all the bits, except the truss rods ( I have the material for that, just need to make a jig to cut it to something usable.), and the jazz pickup bezel. I have the 0.9mm stainless sheet to make that from. Since I can't press the part I have to cut and weld pieces. Initial attempts were promising.