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Howdie all.
I’ve done (I think) about a dozen coats of tru oil on my body so far.
What is the best way to finish from here? I see some people buff with a cutting compound.. is that the best way?
If yes which product is good for that?
And one more question.. sorry I’m a noob... should I also buff with a wax to finish?
I’m working on an ES-5v
Peter
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There are a number of ways to finish TO, and it really boils down to personal preference.
Some will say that you shouldn't need any polishing - your final coat of TO should be good enough as is. You might find that applying some thinned (50/50 TO/turps) final coats helps to achieve a glossy finish. Personally, I find that I'm incapable of applying TO and achieving a perfectly level finish without irregularities creeping in (like dust etc.) so I do polish. I wet sand with 1200 grit, being careful not to get any water into bridge post holes etc, and also avoiding edges and the dreaded sand through, and then use Maguires auto polish (Scratch X / Ultimate).
I do also use wax. If you do, it's best to steer clear of anything with silicone in it. I've read that wax can attract dirt, so again, YMMV.
Thanks Jon
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I never bother going to that extent with my guitars. I tend to give it a final sand with a piece of A4 printer paper and this works for me. But I’m never after a glass finish (I think they just show up fingerprints I’ll be constantly wanting to rub off and this will distract from playing). So as Jon said, first you have to decide what finish you want - high gloss or satin.
Keep going. With some things, less is more. In this case more is better. In the end you'll glad you did the extra coats.Quote:
I’ve done (I think) about a dozen coats of tru oil on my body so far.
I've said this in many posts here but, 24 coats is my minimum with Tru Oil. Even at 24, this does not give a thick-looking poly/nitro appearance. It looks great, but is still ultra thin compared to many other finishes.
Tru Oil is not very different than any other finish when it comes to polishing. It should be allowed to cure a minimum of 7-14 days. Then it can wet sanded or polished. I prefer wet sanding with 3M Micro-mesh, followed by polishing with 3M Micro-Gloss polish (all by hand).Quote:
What is the best way to finish from here? I see some people buff with a cutting compound.. is that the best way?
Those are just the products I like and not the ones you have to use. There are many paths to achieving the same result, so what is "best" is what works best for you.
I will add that, generally speaking, hand applied top coats (Tru Oil, wipe-on poly etc) are pretty flat to begin with so I will start with a fairly fine grit paper/sanding cloth. Maybe as fine as 1200, but will go down in grit if needed, then work up. Hand-applied top coats don't get orange peel like sprayed finishes are prone to, so surface defects are usually minimal.
TO coats are usually quite thin hence why so many are required to get to a level that you might be happy with. On builds 5 & 6 I reckon they would have more than 40 or possibly even 50 coats as I experimented a lot with diluting it down with turps, 50:50 initially from around coats 16 - 24 or higher. On my last build I got lazy and needed to speed things up and went with just a few drops of turps which I reckon gave me 90:10 or maybe 80:20 ratio which was just enough to thin it out to make it spread a bit better as full strength can misbehave once things get really shiny.
Another trick I used was applying TO with 800 or 1200 (and sometimes 1500) grit wet & dry paper rather than a small cotton square as that did both a wet sand and coat application in the same process, and wow, did it come up way smoother so much quicker.
It pays to experiment, allow enough time for coats to cure and fully dry before any form of sanding and polishing, and if you make a mistake it is only a solid wet sanding session away from getting back on track.
Cheers, Waz
@McCreed
So, you're saying you can take up to a year to apply sufficient Truoil finishes?
That's incredible patience - I'm struggling to wait a few weeks to start playing a newly built guitar! Also, I like Satin, so i definitely wouldn't be applying more than a handful of top coats.
My patience to actually get started on a build, though - that's another story....:rolleyes:
No, not at all.Quote:
So, you're saying you can take up to a year to apply sufficient Truoil finishes?
In good conditions (temperature & humidity) I get 4-5 coats per day on. So simple maths is 7 days for 28 coats. My minimum time to cure before wet sanding is 10-14 days. So at the outset, the total time from start to finish is 3 weeks.
Of course, that is in a perfect world and doesn't account for outside influences (like life, work, family, weather).
Just like wine or whisky they need time to mature and come good, same deal with guitar finish.
Poor quality of a rushed job will continually eat away at you long after you complete a fast finish.
Best to take a little bit of extra time and have some patience to help you feel proud of what you have created.
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@McCreed:
I misunderstood, and took the curing time, to be the wait between coats....
You can tell I've done lots of work on guitar finishing - lol...
@wazkelly:
My first build was a Tele Thinline clone, made with (I think) Radiata back, and King Billy Pine top, and I just applied a few coats of Feast n Watson Scandinavian Oil, and then sprayed a couple layers of Cabot's Cabothane Clear Satin. It's super thin, as you'd imagine, and already the dings and marks are appearing where I have accidentally dropped it, but is sounds incredibly resonant, and I don't want to mess with that. I'm fine with a guitar that's got battle-scars (my yardstick is my naturally battle-scarred 1970 Strat), so the Tele has a very long way to go...
[QUOTE=I'm fine with a guitar that's got battle-scars (my yardstick is my naturally battle-scarred 1970 Strat), so the Tele has a very long way to go...[/QUOTE]
Agree, they are to be played more than looked at and as you add your own dings and scratches that all adds to the character of the build.
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I have never used more than 3 coats of any finish on a guitar and still comes up like glass. Hiding a poor technique by using too many coats of finish is allowed but seeing as some finishes are hard to come by and some are expensive I don't see why I would throw money away and waste time when I would rather be playing. I sand to 240 as I have found anything over this is not needed as I then fill with a sanding sealer, my favourite is Feast Watson. I put the coat on so it looks wet using a sponge rubber brush and then when dry I rub over with a very fine Scotch Brite. I then apply, if needed, a second coat and repeat the rub with the Scotch Brite. I then give it a coat of Tru oil and again make it look wet, if you rub it in so it looks dry then the coat is too thin. A very fine rub with the Scotch Brite, don't rub hard enough to go through the finish. I then repeat and see if it needs a third coat but normally it doesn't. I have used it on 3 guitars and found not a real big fan as on the neck I have found once my hand starts to get sweaty it doesn't slide along the neck as well as on the guitars I have finished with poly. I normally use a slightly coarser grade Scotch Brite on the neck to give it a slight matt finish as I have found it allows my hand to slide easier than if it was highly polished. I never wet sand with water I just use the Scotch Brite and polish by hand with a automotive cutting compound. I went over to the Scotch Brite as using water to sand has caused problems in the past with swelling and I like to apply my finish on my guitar before I route or drill any holes. Once you get your technique right you will find the amount of finish needed will get less and cheaper. Get a piece of cheap pine and use it to practice on and you will find out how to do the finish that matches your skill base. Much better to use a practice piece to make you mistakes on than repeatedly sanding your guitar.
@ Dikkybee007
Cheers - good to hear alternate ways to finish.
That last piece of info, I'm taking and running with it. Particularly, as finishing is such a new thing to me.
I believe the mantra "measure twice, cut once", so this "Much better to use a practice piece to make you mistakes on than repeatedly sanding your guitar. " will join it, in my workshop self-talk.
Thanks for all the advice in this thread. Does anyone have any suggestions for getting more of a satin finish with tru-oil? What would be the finishing procedure after, say, 20 coats?
I believe if you wet sand up to 2000 (800 > 1200 > 1500 > 2000), then stop there and don't use any polishing compound, you should get a fairly satin look. That's where my current project is at.
Sounds about right.
2000 grit wet sanded will allow for a super smooth finish but not glossy. That comes after using cutting compounds and lots of polishing.
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Waz, just confirming - the cutting compound/polishing is what creates the glossy look, so if I'm not after that just don't do that?
Thanks for the instructions dozymuppet. :)
Tru Oil will have a glossy finish even without polishing just like a gloss polyurethane (allegedly one of TO's ingredients). Wet sanding and polishing with a polishing compound simply enhances what's already there.Quote:
...the cutting compound/polishing is what creates the glossy look, so if I'm not after that just don't do that?
By just wet sanding and not taking it to the next level, you're actually de-glossing it. I prefer gloss on my body finishes so have not attempted going for a "satin", however, IME 2000 can start to get a very noticeable sheen to it, so you might want to evaluate with each grade and decide if it's what you're looking for. 2000 might be too shiny for you. YMMV.
Also worth mentioning that the process laid out above does not really create a satin finish. It is really just a de-glossed finish as I said previously. It will feel different to a gloss, but a true satin finish starts with the material being applied. In basic terms, a satin poly has added solids to change the way light is refracted by it when dry. The solid content also changes the physical feel of its surface (which I like on necks).
I'm loving all the information, expertise and science. Thank you - it's all super useful McCreed and Waz.