First Build - DJB4

Hi everyone,

Very excited to be here with my first build! I’m classical musician (conductor) by profession, but the first instrument I ever bought myself was a steel string guitar at age 14. I’ve always wanted a bass after dabbling a lot at school, but never felt justified in forking out. Building seems like an awesome combination of getting an instrument plus my love of making stuff!

My 14yo stepson started teaching himself guitar during the first lockdown and bought a cheapy strat copy from cash converters to do a Van Halen paint job on it. This seemed like a fun opportunity to do a parallel project together.

I took the plunge and my kit arrived a couple of weeks ago. It took me that time to decide on the finish, and now I’m ready to get going.

The plan is for a somewhat Jaguar shape. This was drawn from a few plans I’ve seen online modding a J bass to a Jaguar shape. Keeping all the other components the same :)

Attachment 38295

Pickguard shape my own - It may change once I see the stain/grain combo. I’ve ordered a blank dark blue pearloid guard from Musiclily.

I really like the grain so decided to go with a stain for this first build.
Finish will be Dingotone Coolangatta gold and tru-oil.

Attachment 38296

Next steps:
Cut the body shape modifications and sand (and sand again)
Do dry build.

Question re: tools
Having not done much woodwork since high school - does anyone have recommendations for tools for the body mod? The body is ash. Could I do the shape above with a coping saw or would a jigsaw be better? Also, is it best to make a MDF template first and cut around that?

I also need to cut the Pickguard blank. Ideally a tool that could do both would be great!

Thanks in advance!

Big caveat. I am not a skilled luthier. So far I have made one solid body and its not finished yet. So bear that in mind.

Having said that I reckon the easiest and probably best way to do a body is to rough shape it with a band saw and fine tune the shape with a template, a router, and ball bearing guided bits. It's good for evenly rounding corners as well. However that's an expenditure in tools that easily, even vastly, exceeds the cost of the kit, so unless you are planning on doing lots of high end woodworking or your family is in the billionaire category you'll want an alternative.

I have become a big fan of wood rasps. Previously a tool I had little use for I bought a couple of cheap Chinese made rasps when I had to shape a neck, and I'm converted. Possibly even better, but which I don't have experience of, is a Japanese design tool I think called a saw rasp. They get good press. Either way I suggest getting the body thereabouts with whatever saw is handy, getting it right down to shape with a hand rasp, and then sand. For sanding drum and /or flap wheel attachments for a power drill can assist with the horrible end grain.

An idea that came up recently is to print the body shape on a laser printer, and then use a hot iron to iron some of the toner onto the body as a guide. Do that top and bottom and it seems to me it should help getting the sides parallel. The other thing I really recommend is a small modellers square. You can get stainless steel ones at moderate cost.

Hi Ingrid, and welcome.

Another Caveat here also. I build all my guitars using hand tools only, so my experience will be different than most of the folk here.

Ash is fairly easy to work with and a coping saw will definitely get the shape you want but it will be rather slow and tedious because of the small teeth. I agree with Jim in that I would use an ordinary saw, in my case a hand saw, and take off the big chunks that get you close to the shape/size you want and then use a rasp to get the final shape, then sand, sand, sand. I also agree with Jim about the Japanese Saw Rasp. I bought one several builds ago and it is by far the best tool I own, and highly recommended. Removes the wood very quickly without the ripping and tearing that you sometimes get with a course rasp.

It looks as though you have some sort of template there, so I would pencil around that and work back to that with saw, rasp, files and sandpaper.

I have also shaped several scratch plates and use a coping saw for that. Easy peazy.

Take your time and have fun with the build.

rob

Hi Ingrid. Mostly just a welcome message here as I have little to add to the previous advice: Saw/Rasp/Sand.

Further to the Japanese Saw Rasp, definitely will be adding at least one to my tool box. (Are you listening Santa?)
I've had a couple of jobs recently where one of those would have been just the ticket.

I'm seeing them between $48-$59 without shipping, so a very manageable amount for the value it could provide.
I think FrankenWashie uses them a lot.

Thanks so much everyone. Another option materialised today - taking it to the woodwork room at the school I teach at where I may be able to access a band saw and router. If that doesn’t work out I will definitely get the Japanese saw/rasp. I do like the idea of doing it by hand...

Welcome, Ingrid!

Thanks John!

Started shaping the body (cutting down the horns - is that what they're called?) after buying a jigsaw and file. I'm going for a more Jazzmaster shape but not as pointy. The file is very slow - I think it is too fine for getting big chunks off, but will be good for later steps.

Attachment 38357

I've got a few questions after the mock build.

#1 Neck pocket - Is it ok? - the fit is pretty snug. There isn't really much wiggle but there is a small visible gap. Is this a problem? Is it normal? Will I need to create a shim for this? It's very slim and I don't know how I'd do that.

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#2 - String Height / Bone Nut too high?

The strings seem super high. The neck has a very slight convex bend as it should. I haven't adjusted the truss rod. It looks like the bone nut is too tall? Any input on this appreciated...

At bone nut
Attachment 38361

More pictures of the string height issue...

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At bridge...I know the saddles are wonky. I was midway through adjusting them.

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Over fingerboard

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Any comments??

So the strings look great on the mock build. Parallel all the way up and down. But the gap between fingerboard and Low E is much wider than the gap between fingerboard and high E. Is this normal?

Attachment 38365

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Are the bridge holes pre drilled?

Actually, if you push the neck a bit to the left wouldn't that close the small gap up and also locate the strings a bit more centrally? Finishing on the neck will also add some thickness which will take up some of the gap, personally it doesn't look worth shimming.

Yes the nut looks too tall, but I'd wait until you are properly into setup before adjusting that. I would get everything else as close as possible, then set the nut height, then go back over and re-check relief/intonation etc. You will find that the strings will introduce quiet a bit more bow in the neck so you may actually have to wind the truss rod so it's slightly bent back wards when the strings are off to compensate. Again, something to be done during setup in small increments.

Yes Sonic Mountain, the Bridge Holes were pre-drilled. The scale length was spot on but obviously I could adjust the bridge position left to right if needed. Thanks for your advice about the bone nut and neck!

It's a bass, so you can use the end of a round needle file to deepen the slots. Just try and keep the slots the same width, so just use the tip for the thinner strings. Mask off both sides of the nut with tape to prevent marks if the file slips. I do one slot at a time with the other strings fitted and up to tension. Then loosen the strings, move the strings to the side of the neck (taping them out of the way here is easiest I find) then file the top of the nut down until the top of the nut is somewhere between half-way up the string to level with the top of the string (some personal preference here but I go level). Leave the nut too high and the outer edges of the nut are likely to break off in they catch on something - which means a new nut.

You can then use fine sandpaper and/or micromesh grits to smooth and polish the nut, finishing off with a metal polish or buffing compound for a good shine.

Nuts will almost always start off too tall and need work on lowering the slots height and overall nut height.

Ingrid,

Honestly get your design, stain, paint or finish done. Those measurements in your photos all look good to start and all can be set correctly afterwards.

I would suggest sanding....finish....align the neck/bridge/tuning machines for E and G strings. Look at you side gaps on the strings on the neck and lean on the neck a little as you screw the neck on. Check it again.

There is an order to your setup and it really has to be done in that order......

1. Remove your neck.....get a flat edge and adjust the truss rod so the neck is completely flat. Tape up the neck...leaving the frets exposed. Texta on the top of each fret....level the frets from top to bottom...then crown them again into a rounded shape. Then sand, buff and polish the frets.

2. Reattach your neck....pushing it over again as listed above.

3. String it up.....tune it to E,A,D,G.

4. Feeler gauges and Capo needed. Capo on the strings at the point of the crest of the first fret...right on top. Push a finger down at the point where the neck joins the body.....15th or 17th fret normally. Then using a 0.015 inch feeler gage at the fret halfway between the 1st fret and the one where your finger is.....slide it in....normally 8th or 9th fret. The feeler gauge needs to just slide under the string....use the fat E string. Just slides under. If you flattened the neck as above, it normally does not need much adjustment here. If it needs adjustment then use the truss rod key turn clockwise to tighten if the string is too high.....turn anti-clockwise if the string is too low.

5. I use imperial measurements.....sorry...so now we are looking at string height. Remove the capo.....you adjust the string height using the bridge height adjustment screws. Keep each segment of the bridge level not angled. Use a tiny Allen key...normally included with the kit to adjust the strings up and down away from the fretboard. A good starting point is 5/64ths of an inch between the top of the 17th fret and the bottom of each string. You will have to adjust and retune as you make changes....do this in tune and with the bass up on its side how it would be if played.

6. The height of the string at the first fret can heavily effect the note you play in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd frets. You need to get the strings down to about 0.022 inch above the first fret. This involves filing down the string slots. A set of nut files is helpful for this.....but you can just super glue an old section of string of the desired width to a paddle pop stick and use that as a file. Hold the file in such away the the neck side of the nut is high and you push down towards the tuners. Try rolling the files to the left and right a little to open up the fret slots to help with the string not binding.

7. Now we have intonation. The strings tuned again to EADG. Pluck the unfretted open E string....ensure it is in tune.....and then pluck the same string fretted at the 12th fret. If the note at the 12th fret is Sharper then the string length from the 12th fret to the bridge is too short and needs to be longer. So you then use, in most cases, a Phillips screwdriver and move the bridge saddle backwards by turning the screw clockwise. If the note is flat the string is too long and we turn the screw anti-clockwise. You will have to retune the open string as well as the fretted string as you go.

Intonation done correctly will give you accurate notes in the octave below the 12th fret and in the octave above the 12th fret by making sure the two sections of the string are the same length.

Then you are done. :)

Thanks ozzbike and Simon for your very informative replies. I will do all the finishing then return to the neck/nut/intonation sequence as described.

Met with a acoustic guitar builder friend who helped me out with rasp and spoke shave to round off the horns from my rough cuts.

Before

Attachment 38590

After

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Grain filled with walnut Timbermate.

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Did first stain coat of Dingotone Coolangatta Gold after sanding to 400. Take up on back a lot less than on front as you can see. Very strong penetration on the end grain on the sides.

First coat of Dingotone Gold.

Attachment 38595

Attachment 38596

Waited a week for Dingotone to dry in Melbourne weather. Back and front dry, sides (end grain) still getting yellow residue on fingers. Decided to do a second coat just on back and front - heavier on the back to even up the colour.

Attachment 38598

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Initially I wanted to go with a Peavey bass style headstock, but realised this wouldn't really go with the body shape. So I did this, which is pretty basic, but not exactly the same as a standard Fender. I just drew it by hand on paper. Cut with jigsaw, then lots of shaping with the shave and a LOT of sanding. Very happy with how it turned out shape wise and the sanding.

Finished the shaping up yesterday, then did the stain coat of colourless DT on the neck.

Attachment 38600

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I will post more complete pictures of the headstock shape once it's dry.

That's all "shaping up" nicely :o.

Good work.

Haha thanks McCreed! Now just waiting for finish to dry and eyeing off next build - hah! Idle hands...

Want a kind of 50s retro spacey vibe. I love the look of many builds by Harvester Guitars, Danelectro etc.

Here are a few I played with. The pickguard material is dark blue pearloid. I also made some two tone mock-ups where I considered reusing the original white material.

Attachment 38685

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Attachment 38687

I settled on the final design (but have plenty of spare material if it doesn’t work out or there’s some disaster).

Made a template with MDF, doing some high school maths with Pythagoras to work out the bevel to get the guard the right size as I was cutting from the bottom edge. It was very fiddly with the jigsaw.

Attachment 38688

I was chuffed with my baking paper template to get the pick up position. It may have been a terrible idea to cut this out now but we’ll see. There is wiggle room for the guard to get it lined up properly. Measurements were based on both the positions of the bridge pickup and the pickup placement in the original pick guard.

Attachment 38689

As you can see no expense is spared in my high tech operation! ;)

Quite happy with the final results...

Attachment 38690

Not the exact position but you get the idea...
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Will get a drill bit to do the screw holes later.

Two coats of intensifier and it’s looking great...

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Waiting for it to dry to start final coats. Itchy hands!!! There’s going to be a hot dry spell coming up in Melbourne here so hopefully I can squeeze two coats in in the next week or so...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IngridM

I settled on the final design (but have plenty of spare material if it doesn’t work out or there’s some disaster).

Made a template with MDF, doing some high school maths with Pythagoras to work out the bevel to get the guard the right size as I was cutting from the bottom edge. It was very fiddly with the jigsaw.

Attachment 38688

I was chuffed with my baking paper template to get the pick up position. It may have been a terrible idea to cut this out now but we’ll see. There is wiggle room for the guard to get it lined up properly. Measurements were based on both the positions of the bridge pickup and the pickup placement in the original pick guard.

Attachment 38689

As you can see no expense is spared in my high tech operation! ;)

Quite happy with the final results...

Attachment 38690

Not the exact position but you get the idea...
Attachment 38691

Will get a drill bit to do the screw holes later.

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Intriguing! Unusual in both shape and colour combination.

Thanks @Fretworn. It’s come out kind of Star Trek-like - which I don’t mind at all :)

Attachment 38727

First coat of final coat on. I was sure the last stain coat was super dry, however I got a bit of colour transfer when applying the clear. Fingers crossed it’s fine - maybe it came off with the steel wool-ing? Though I did wipe it with a micro fibre cloth and that was fine. I’ll just give this coat a long time to dry during this hot week and twiddle my thumbs...

Yeah cool, I love that 'jet-age' style stuff.

Quote:

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First coat of final coat on. I was sure the last stain coat was super dry, however I got a bit of colour transfer when applying the clear.

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That's not uncommon when doing a hand-applied top coat (whether poly, tru-oil etc). It may even happen with the first few coats until there is a sufficient layer of finish built up to allow a buffer between the the applicator (cloth, rag, pad) and the stained timber.

If you apply with light pressure so you're not rubbing the colour off or moving it around, you'll be fine.
Just watch to be sure you don't create streaks off the edges of you applicator (like windrows from a tractor or mower). If you keep it even, once it builds up and dries you'll be good to go.

Also, my approach with hand-applied finishes, is not to sand until it's started to develop enough build up that you can actually see an even coat across the surface (providing there isn't a major defect like a fingerprint or heavy debris).
With tru-oil or wipe-on poly, this may be 6 to 8 coats before I touch it with any abrasive.

Which leads me to caution you about using steel wool... I strongly discourage you from using it. Steel wool will leave tiny steel fibres that are just PITA to deal with in a top coat. I use synthetic sanding pads (sometimes referred to as "synthetic steel wool") but if you don't have or can't get those, a very fine grit sand paper will do for any between coat de-nibbing.

edit:
Forgot to say "Looking good!"

Thanks Sonic Mountain and McCreed.

Re: steel wool - yes I realised this issue with bits of it before reading your post. Will steer clear of it from now on it is a PITA!

Off on holidays tomorrow so my idle hands can’t interfere with drying for at least a few days!

What is your advice after final coats of DT? Where does Tru-Oil fit in the timeline of things? Before or after the final 2 week drying time prior to final cut & polish? I would appreciate your wisdom!

Used Tru Oil as the top coat over DT intensifier on my 1st & 2nd builds as i was having no end of dramas with DT products and not confident top clear coats would work.
That said, there are many other forum members who have done so successfully. Andy40 is one who has used DT the most and well worth checking out some of his build diaries.
Cheers Waz

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Well overall I'd have to say DT has not worked out the best for me. The colour looked good after the stain and intensifier coats, but has somehow faded while the final coat was drying. Or this may have been user error - perhaps they weren't fully dry when the final coat was added and some came off?

Either way, short of sanding all the way back, which I'm not willing to do, I decided to plow ahead with Tru-Oil after leaving the DT top coat for 4 weeks to dry.

Here's after the first coat of TO dried. Its much shinier than I anticipated but it's very easy to work with so that's a plus. I had an accident when applying TO to the neck and got some big drips on the fingerboard. As a result I ended up doing one very thin coat on the whole fingerboard to make a uniform appearance. I read on a bunch of other forums that others have done this. I won't do any more coats but it's definitely evened up the appearance and I'll wax it later.

Attachment 39228

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That has some really stunning grain patterns accentuated and looking good.
Not sure how wax over TO on a Rosewood fretboard will work out.
One of the rare occasions I would recommend using 0000 steel wool if you want or need to sand it off the fretboard.
Cheers Waz

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I've felt some light at the end of the tunnel this week as the Tru-Oil has really been building up and getting a good gloss. Now that I see it I think I'm going to go for a gloss rather than a satin finish. You can still see the grain really well and I'm just enjoying the process of applying the TO.

Wet Sanding
I've done about 15+ coats with a few sand backs with 600, 800 grit. I did try wet sanding with TO as the lubricant but did not find this working well. Using water has been much better - while protecting the screw holes/edges etc.

I just ordered some micromesh pads for the next sanding steps as nowhere has fine grit sandpaper locally at the moment.

TO Application Streaks
I was getting lots of streaks with the old-tshirt squares I was using, so switched to a lint-free microfibre cloth (for car interiors) from Supercheap Auto. I've got it wrapped around a milk bottle lid to give some structure and a flat surface. It's working OK so far - better than the tshirt. It seems to like heavier coats though. There is still a bit of streaking with thinner coats if I try to work it all the way in, which doesn't seem to work now. Maybe this is just the effect of the coats really building up? The grain bumps are almost completely gone, except for one spot on the body cut out where the grain is very accentuated.

You can see the swirl marks/streaks in the pics:

Attachment 39338

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Neck is looking and feeling nice:

Attachment 39340

I saw this video and really wanted to try to replicate this without dropping a lot of money on gold ink I'll use 5 drops of and never use again.

I tried out 2 markers with some test decal paper from Dr Decal Mr Hyde.

EXPERIMENT #1: Sharpie & Signo vs. Water & Tru Oil

Applying ink: both go on, no problem.
Sharpie ink = more dull appearance, similar to Fender decals
Signo = a lot more yellow in the tint

(Wish I took a photo of this)

Leave to dry, but Signo is being slow and I'm impatient ;)

Soak decal:
Sharpie - ink stays as is
Signo - ink goes haywire, but mostly only the spots that were thick/hadn't fully dried.

(Also no photo of this :( )

Allow decal to dry & apply TO over the top:
Sharpie - ink completely wipes off
Signo - not much change from original

Attachment 39341

Left = Sharpie permanent marker gold. Right = Signo gel pigment ink pen.

EXPERIMENT #2: Signo allowed to DRY vs. Water & Tru-Oil
This time I repeated with just signo but allowed to dry for hours before submerging.
Water: Ink messes up again
(Allow to dry)
Tru Oil: Looks like no change, but hard to tell...

This is after both steps:
Attachment 39342

Conclusion:
Sharpie is out because I can't TO over the top of it.
Signo - a possibility, but I'll have to apply it very carefully ON the guitar after the decal has dried. Leave it for AGES, hairdryer etc and pray it doesn't do something weird when I add TO.
Or just have a plain decal with no gold.

Thoughts people? Right now my neck's just sitting there waiting for some love (or more TO!)
Attachment 39343

(Back decal turned out great...)
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Quote:

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Originally Posted by IngridM

Thoughts people?

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I only use silver but they certainly do gold.
Small jar of Tamiya modelling paint.
Attachment 39345

Dries fairly quick (I only leave it for about 15 minutes)

cheers, Mark.

Legend - I found a shop nearby with stock! What kind of brush/nib do you use to apply it?
PS. Checked out your website - nice sax playing, fellow Melbournite :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IngridM

I've felt some light at the end of the tunnel this week as the Tru-Oil has really been building up and getting a good gloss. Now that I see it I think I'm going to go for a gloss rather than a satin finish. You can still see the grain really well and I'm just enjoying the process of applying the TO.

Wet Sanding
I've done about 15+ coats with a few sand backs with 600, 800 grit. I did try wet sanding with TO as the lubricant but did not find this working well. Using water has been much better - while protecting the screw holes/edges etc.

I just ordered some micromesh pads for the next sanding steps as nowhere has fine grit sandpaper locally at the moment.

TO Application Streaks
I was getting lots of streaks with the old-tshirt squares I was using, so switched to a lint-free microfibre cloth (for car interiors) from Supercheap Auto. I've got it wrapped around a milk bottle lid to give some structure and a flat surface. It's working OK so far - better than the tshirt. It seems to like heavier coats though. There is still a bit of streaking with thinner coats if I try to work it all the way in, which doesn't seem to work now. Maybe this is just the effect of the coats really building up? The grain bumps are almost completely gone, except for one spot on the body cut out where the grain is very accentuated.

You can see the swirl marks/streaks in the pics:

Attachment 39338

Attachment 39339

Neck is looking and feeling nice:

Attachment 39340

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Swirl marks could be from rubbing the fresh coat until almost dry? I have mostly applied as a slightly wet look and left to dry naturally.
Wet sand application of TO is tricky and through trial and error ended up with about 50mm square of 1200, 1500, or 2000 grit, added a few drops of TO onto the small square as you would on a rag, and then gently applied allowing the wet n dry paper to smooth things as the coat was applied. Some YT videos show people pouring it on the surface and then wet sanding which can end up very sticky and messy and also much harder to control.
Finer grit paper can be found at Auto stores such as Super Cheap or Auto Barn here in Oz.

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Did some more coats of Tru Oil and I’m now on day 12 of curing time before I polish. On the neck/headstock I ran out of steam and won’t be doing enough coats to bury the decal but I’m fine with that. Last night I added the pots to the pickguard while I was twiddling my thumbs. Counting down to polish and assembly.Attachment 39846