AG-1 Second build

Well this G-type seems somewhat more involved than the ST I build last year. And looking at forum posts and the photo gallery, I'm feeling like rather a dummy. So I may become a pest, here with a lot of simplistic questions. But first. Doing the mock build. When the neck (set neck type) is fully inserted into the neck pocket, there is insufficient room in the pickup rout for the pickup. When I pull the neck out to accommodate the pickup, the scale length, 12th fret to bridge, is now about 4 mm longer than nut to 12th. Do I have a problem? thanks.

With these set neck kits, you don't necessarily need the neck pushed into the body as far as it will go. If your post holes are already drilled (which it sounds like they are) then that guides where the neck needs to sit. If you look at the fret calculator on the Stew Mac site, it will tell you how far the nut should be from the bridge for your scale length.

Can you post some pictures?

Assuming your AG1 has a 24.75" scale length, the distance from nut to the centre of the high E post should be 24.811" (± 0.030") (~630mm) which might account for a couple of mm of that difference.

Many thanks, jonwhitear. I was using the old saw about nut to 12th fret distance equaling 12th to bridge distance. StewMac now tells me I am on the high edge of OK. Your second post makes it even more comfortable.
Visited your beautiful country a couple of years ago from Utah, USA. Sydney, Snowy Mtns, Melbourne, Adelaide. Loved every minute.

That's good to hear. Hopefully it won't be too much longer before we can all travel again!

There is lots of discussion on the forum pertaining to set-neck builds, locating the bridge etc.

One thing you'll commonly read is focusing on the overall scale length not the nut to 12th fret x 2.

There is also a handy PDF Building Guide: http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content...s%20Manual.pdf

The guide also describes how to temporarily mount the TOM bridge posts/bridge specifically for finding the correct scale length.

At the risk of sounding like a smart-arse, if all else fails, read the instructions :o

Thanks for the advice, McCreed. I see so much talent and creativity in these posts, and I'm one who kinda needs to be walked through it. But we'll get there at the last.

Next question - there is a slight ding on the rosewood fretboard, between 14 and 15, and I'd like to mask it with something that will match the original color. Any suggestions. Also, the manual suggests finishing the fretboard simply with lemon oil. I can't get Dingotone stuff up here. Is that the best approach? Thanks again.

Damp cloth and a heat source.
I have a soldering iron so I use that.
https://youtu.be/IbxXFRvo8tA

Thanks. Cliff. That should be great for the dent. What about the color, which shows up lighter than the rest of the board?

Lemon oil may solve that, as it will make the board appear darker. You can also use mineral oil of the type thats sold for seasoning chopping boards (same stuff without the lemon scent). But that area may just look lighter just because it is dented and reflecting light in a different way. So steam it first and see if you can remove it, and see what it looks like afterwards.

Thanks, Simon. Been away for a while dressing and polishing frets. Pitbull manual suggests simply lemon oil on a rosewood fretboard. Is that the best approach?

Lemon oil is the standard method (Fender, Gibson, etc.).

Some people do lacquer their rosewood boards (as Rickenbacker do for example), but you need to really like lacquered fretboards to do so.

Thanks, Simon. Been away from this for a while, dressing and polishing frets. Is lemon oil the best way to finish the fretboard?

Also, how deep is the wood grain on the basswood body, compared to, say, ash or maple? I may go with a nitro finish, as there seems to be a wider selection of paint colors.

So a plan is coming together. Neck will be stained a little darker than natural, followed by about 15 coats of TruOil, then wipe-on poly, and finally, Meguiar's. Body finished in Pelham Blue with Gracey's, sealer, color and clear coat. Maguiars' again to polish. I have high hopes.

I'll try to add a couple of photos of the ST semi-hollow I built last year. Attachment 38392 Didn't work. I'll try something else.

OK, did work after all. So hers is the back. Attachment 38393

Sanding question. I intend to paint. Pitbull Instruction Manual, p. 18, says do not sand above 220 to leave some "tooth." In the Pitbull Sanding video, Phil uses wet-dry paper starting at 240, then 600, working up to 1200. Can someone please advise?

I wouldn't have thought you would need poly over Tru Oil. Enough coats of TO will give you a nice smooth gloss finish. I'm no expert on finishing, but if you're talking about sanding _before_ applying any finish, you shouldn't need really fine grit.

The poly over Tru Oil caught my attention also. AFAIK, they are compatible, but I'm not sure what advantage there is to doing it.

I concur with jonwhitear about the sanding. Typically 240 minimum pre-paint, finer grades for wet sanding clear coat after it's sufficiently set.

FWIW, when wet sanding hand applied top coats like Tru Oil or Polyurethane, I find I can start with a fairly fine grade (eg:1000-1200) because they (typically) don't have very deep imperfections like orange peel that can occur from spraying. YMMV.

Edit:
I just had a look at the video XP referenced in post #16 and I'm not quite sure why the instructor is going to 1200 on unfinished timber.
That's not common practise IMO/E. There was a "debate" recently about "how fine is too fine" and my opinion (and practise) is minimum 240 if painting, 400 if I'm staining/dying. My 400 statement is what was debated by some, but I won't go there again now.

However for all intents and purposes, the general consensus is 240.

A lot comes down to technique and how hard you press the sandpaper. A light rub with P400 gives a very different result to using it strongly pushed into the wood. Too much pressure with fine sandpaper and you can squash-up the ends of the wood fibres, making it harder for stain to penetrate and giving a patchy appearance. It can also vary by the type of body wood.

It is far more important for the surface to be level than for the surface to be ultra-smooth at this stage.

Thanks all three for the sound advice. Going forward with the neck stained with maple stain, now receiving about 15 coats of Tru Oil, with light sanding after every 5. Word to the wise (or to the careless like me), keep your fingers off the rosewood fretboard when applying Tru Oil to the neck. I'm also sanding the body at 220. Hope everyone had a great Christmas celebration.

Here is the neck with about 20 coats of TruOil. When cured, it will be polished with Maguires. Attachment 38728Attachment 38729

Well, here is the body. Obviously not trying for anything fancy, here. But as you can see from the dark areas (glare spot not withstanding), I did not get the finish I want. So a little more sanding and a couple more coats of paint. A new can of Gracey's Clear Coat has been ordered. Attachment 38753

Note the large C-clamp. With the set-neck AG, you cannot use the board bolted in place of the neck as shown in the manual p.19, and the output jack hole is in the front, so you can't use the dowel method shown on p.20. A tightly attached C-clamp may give you a handle to manipulate the body. And the dowel stuck thru the pick-up wiring hole allows me to clamp it to something and stand the body on its head while the spray coats dry. Someone may find this useful.

Mess up, sand back, paint again. Mess up, sand back, paint again. The paint goes on with minimal trouble, but the clear coat can be a real bear. Fourth try, and I think I am satisfied.

Looking ahead, a question. Pickguard and hardware are all black. During initial inventory, I noticed a new black nut in the package. Looking at it now, it is plastic, just like the one I just took off the neck. I also ordered a bone nut, which is white. Does anyone have experience or ideas on dying a white bone nut to match the rosewood fretboard, or the black tuning machines? Thanks in advance.

I guess no one has tried to dye a white bone nut. I found a black TUSQ nut at Musicians' Friend that I hope I can modify to fit.

Next questions: The neck has a little play when fitted into the pocket. How do I set it in the right position, leading straight out? Next, what is the best way to fill the small spaces between neck and body? Third, I have stained and TruOiled a little too much of the neck heel. How much do I have to do to rough it up so the glue will take?

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The paint goes on with minimal trouble, but the clear coat can be a real bear.

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Just curious what problems you were having. Also what finish did you apply?

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Does anyone have experience or ideas on dying a white bone nut to match the rosewood fretboard, or the black tuning machines?

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From what I've read, there have been varying results with dying bone, and there seems to be minimal absorption into the bone. A lot of people that have tried it, wound up buying a black nut (corian or graphtech) or nut blank. Alcohol based leather dye was a common product used.

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How do I set it in the right position, leading straight out?

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Pages 9-13 in the PBG Manuel discuss temporary bridge installation, scale length and neck alignment. Fairly straight forward procedure. You can always ask questions on specific aspects if you get stuck.

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Next, what is the best way to fill the small spaces between neck and body?

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Typically the gaps with a set neck are quite narrow because it requires a tight fit in order for glue to adhere to both surfaces adequately.
Therefore most gaps will be filled when the final clear coat is applied. This may require some extra thought if you have two different top coats on the body and neck (Tru Oil on neck, ???? on body). I think using the same clear on both body & neck is more common.

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Third, I have stained and TruOiled a little too much of the neck heel. How much do I have to do to rough it up so the glue will take?

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You should sand the heel back to bare wood* at any areas where it will contact in the pocket. You can sand it back within a few mm short of where the edge of the pocket stops (ie: where the neck becomes visible out of the pocket).

*A little bit of stain left shouldn't be an issue, but definitely remove the Tru Oil.

Thanks, McCreed. This forum is invaluable to us plodders. I feel sometimes like I'm trying to dance a ballet in my irrigating boots.

Anyway. The neck is finished with maple stain, then TruOil. Body sprayed with Gracey's metallic blue nitro, then two cans of Gracey's nitro clear coat spray. (You can't get Gracey's downunder, I think, as we cannot get Dingotone up here.) Paint went on nice and even (second try), but the clear coat insisted on producing little droplets instead of spray mist. I warmed the can (don't apply below 70 F.), shook it constantly, turned the nozzle to prevent clogging, still got droplets (fourth try). I sanded to 2000 before polishing with Meguires, but not wishing to risk sanding thru the clear coat, I still have a slight orange-peel texture. But it's an even texture, and it did polish to a pretty nice shine. I kind of like it. Front is a little better than the back. Your suggestion of same clear on body and neck is definitely useful advice for a future build. I found a black graphtech nut at Musicians' Friend, which I hope will work with some sanding. I'll post a photo when I get some help.

Got brave enough last night to try my first set neck glue job. Set the neck pickup in and measure the spacing, 12th fret to bridge saddles. Put the E-strings on to check neck alignment, then loosen strings, remove pickup, smear on glue, and clamp it. Spacing can be re-measured with the clamp in place, but if I re-tighten the strings enough to check the alignment, I'm afraid the tension will pull the neck forward and mess the spacing. Much wringing of the hands. But what do ya know, this morning it looks like it held quite well. Whew.
Now on to soldering.

Looking forward to seeing updated pictures!

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk

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Spacing can be re-measured with the clamp in place, but if I re-tighten the strings enough to check the alignment, I'm afraid the tension will pull the neck forward and mess the spacing.

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The neck alignment can be checked and adjusted without having the strings on by using a long steel rule held against the side of the neck (edge of the fretboard). It gives you the same information just from a different point.

If you picture the steel rule as an extension of the neck running through the body, you can measure the relationship between the steel rule edge and the bridge, E saddles or even the bridge post holes.

Also, if aligning with strings, they don't require any more tension than to take out the slack. You can even use fishing line or baking twine for this purpose. In fact, as a quick check, I've done it simply by holding a string with my fingers across the E nut slots and the E saddles.

Here's the next step. Thanks to you both for your interest. McCreed, I'd like to have you on speed-dial before each operation. Maybe if I stay with this long enough, I'll learn enough to do it right. But in the meantime....
The surface is gently rippled, and if someone asks, I might tell them it was intentional. If I've learned on thing from this forum, it is that there are no rules. Anyone is likely to do anything.
Dozymuppet, just rattling around the build diary stack, and I came across your re-do of the TC-59. Mind if I ask for more detail on how you got that color. Black edges with deep brown wood-grained body? Wow!Attachment 39063Attachment 39064Attachment 39065Attachment 39066

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Originally Posted by XP Rider

Dozymuppet, just rattling around the build diary stack, and I came across your re-do of the TC-59. Mind if I ask for more detail on how you got that color. Black edges with deep brown wood-grained body? Wow!

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Thanks. it's kinda one of those things where the project takes you where it wants to. I was keen on a grey/black stain look, intending it to be a cooler tone than the warm tone it turned into, but I embraced it and moved on. I also experimented with a hand-applied burst, so the edges were stained darker at that point. When I sanded back the aborted burst idea, I left the edges stained. Then, when re-staining the rest of the body, I reapplied stain to the edges, which gives it that final effect.

Looking good XP rider. Love the blue body.

Thanks, Trevor. The cherry red on your AG is spectacular. Mine has a basswood body, so I didn't have the luscious wood grain that you have.

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Originally Posted by XP Rider

Thanks, Trevor. The cherry red on your AG is spectacular. Mine has a basswood body, so I didn't have the luscious wood grain that you have.

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Thanks XP Rider. The AG-2 is basswood - but I was lucky with the grain.

Quick question. Following the PBG wiring diagram for 2 humbuckers, 4 pots and a 3-way, it looks like it will put the volume knobs on the outside, tone knobs inside in line with the 3-way and output. Is there any convention on this, an preferred way, or a matter of personal preference?

Hi XP Rider,
I don't look at the wiring diagram as being diagrammatically correct - I just follow the wire links. On the Pitbull diagram the 3-way switch does appear to be on the wrong side (and should be on the pup side of the diagram). I definitely have the volumes on the inside and the tones on the outside.
The picture below shows my circuit for the AG-2 kit (I will use the terminal strip to join the pups without any soldering (just my weird way)). This is also the wiring setup for my FBM-1.

Thanks a bunch. I hope that gives me what I need. I've printed both photos, and am trying to decipher, lots of dark wires and also shadows. I'll see what I can do. Seems like the main thing is to have power to the points that need power, and ground to the points that need grounding.

Dang lot of intense soldering, and too many places for mistakes and bad connections.
Next question - the lugs on the volume pots are not long enough to fold back onto the ground, as shown in most diagrams (Seymour Duncan shows them soldered). Is that a problem?

Using a short length of wire to link the ground lug to the back of the pot is standard practise for shorter lugs, and is commonly used even when the lugs are long enough. Either use some stripped insulated wire or, more often, the stiff leg off-cuts from capacitors or resistors.

You need that lug connected to ground for the volume pot to work correctly, otherwise it will not turn the volume down fully.

Thanks for setting me straight, WierdBits. You know there is a tremendous learning curve for unhandy dudes like me. But working on these builds is rather addicting, so hopefully I'll keep going and use all this handy information. Forum is invaluable.