Hi guys,
I'm getting the ES-1Q when they come back into stock and was wondering whether to grain fill the top or not? It is a Quilted maple veneer. Just thinking sanding then grain fill and sanding again might rub through the quilt.
Thank guys..
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Hi guys,
I'm getting the ES-1Q when they come back into stock and was wondering whether to grain fill the top or not? It is a Quilted maple veneer. Just thinking sanding then grain fill and sanding again might rub through the quilt.
Thank guys..
I recently has similar concerns with a zebrawood veneer on a bass guitar build.
I looked for heaps of options....and settled on using C.A. glue to pore fill the veneer. I got the colour on mine in the spray polyurethane I used at the end.
It will be harder if you want to use a stain.
I did a bit of a summary down the page a little here. The finish is smooth like glass.
https://www.buildyourownguitar.com.a...t=10785&page=6
Yes I will be using a stain. I’m thinking of using black timber mate to grain fill and use a cobalt blue type stain.
I’m thinking of thinning the timber mate right down and wipe the excess off straight away there might not be to much sanding. Not sure of that too..
Thanks for the link and info Ozzbike. That was a interesting read.
It's not normal to 'grain fill' as maple has closed pores, as does the rest of the ply the kit body is built with. That's not to say the surface will be absolutely smooth, but technically there are no pores to fill. The mahogany body on Ozbike's kit is open pored, so that did need grain filling. What you'll benefit from is really a 'surface sealer'.
CA itself can be used as a finish, GluBoost promote their range of CA products as such https://gluboost.com/.
Beware that using CA on a large area can create a lot of very unpleasant fumes, so is best applied outside in small areas at a time.
You can get a very shiny finish without using CA, but CA is less prone to sinking in after application than many other finishes so will stay even once sanded. But like any finish, if theres not enough depth to it, you'll find it hard to sand it level without breaking through the finish.
A couple of applications of thin CA should seal the surface well enough to stop anything else applied on top from sinking into the wood, but it does mean that you will need to stain the finish first, as it will be locked-in once the CA goes on and you won't stain the wood through it. I wouldn't try to sand the thin CA flat at all after this as it won't be deep enough, just a light sanding to remove the most protuberant bits before using your main finish.
So you need to ensure your stain goes on well, which means doing all the normal checks for glue spots. One option is not to stain the wood at all, but use a tinted lacquer spray to provide transparent colour to the guitar (as Ozbike did to hide the glue spots on his bass). This is also useful for hiding the glue line where the veneer halves meet and which is very difficult to disguise or remove using a glue remover. The visibility of this line will vary from kit to kit.
Thanks for the info Simon. I really appreciate it as usual.
Suppose my main thing is wanting to highlight the quilt from dark to light. Would a light black stain work with a slight sanding?
Going for a cobalt blue colour
Personally I don't think you'll gain much by staining black and sanding back on a veneer, and the more you sand, the more there's an increased risk of sand-through. I would have a different opinion if it were a genuine maple cap.
If you want to get an idea of the contrast that will appear naturally, just wipe the top with a rag dampened with metho. It evaporates quickly, but you'll get an idea anyway. Also metho won't raise the grain much and will highlight any glue spots.
That’s a great tip thanks Mc Creed! I’ll do that for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
I suppose if there are any glue spots I could try sanding a bit more with 400 grit and see how it goes.
I would not try sanding any glue spots out - it is a recipe for sand-through.
Most people on here use Goof-off. It is an Acetone based product and will dissolve the glue which you then remove with a stiff brush (cheap tootbrush).
The veneer on these kits are 0.6mm thick at the most and the factory then sands them smooth. This means that the veneer could be as little as 0.3mm thick in places. You will know the thin places when you sand through!
As McCreed says, not much to be gained from black staining first.
If you apply the blue stain and rub most of it off then the quilt rings or ripples will absorb more dye than the whiter parts.
Go back with a second coat and the effect should be more pronounced.
Then keep going until you get the level of contrast that you are looking for.
Keep the sandpaper away until you get a few coats of lacquer on - I did on my ES-1GT.
Cheers
Ricky
I have done a quilt and flame veneer guitar. I agree with Ricky mostly.
I do a light sand with 400 grit then rub with metho looking very carefully for glue spots, A light sand on some glue spots may be necessary. GooOff will be needed.
The metho will raise the grain very slightly so need another 400 sand. Then as Ricky said thick dose of stain and wipe off most with metho. It will leave the quillt nice and dark. Can do it a couple of time if necessary. Then the recommended mix of stain. I do not use water.
You can see some of the issues I had with my guitars in the Build Dairy's in the signature block below.
I am still very much a learner but you will learn fast. Well worth the effort and take your time, search this forum incessantly. There are many very experienced members who have done it all before.
Thank you Greg and Ricky. I very much appreciate your info! I knew the veneer was thin but not .3mm thin..😳
Going to be a slow process with this one..
I have mentioned this ad nauseam on this and other forums, but I will say it again anyway...
On veneer, I don't actually use sandpaper. I use synthetic sanding pads (sometimes referred to as synthetic steel wool). I use them pre and post stain/dye and is also my go-to when smoothing between top coats like Tru Oil, shellac, wipe-on poly etc. (especially with hand applied finishes)
It comes in a variety of grits but less aggressive than their sand paper counterparts. They'restill effective but can help minimise dreaded sand-through.
Thanks again McCreed for another top tip..👍
Like these ones? https://www.bunnings.com.au/uni-pro-...-pack_p1560045
No. The ones I use are 3M (Scotchbrite) or Bear Tex. I think the only ones you can get at the BGS will be the green Scotchbrite and they're sold as scrubbers for cleaning. The green are more or less equivalent to P400.Quote:
Green Scotchbrite Pads at Bunnings
I get my other ones from The Sandpaper Man here.
Thanks Mc Creed. I’ll check them out..👍
Thanks for sharing such valuable info. Are you suggesting that Sruface sealer be added after the stain or the surface sealer used as a method of raising the grain?Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Barden
Sorry if the question is a bit ridiculous, but my knowledge of stains is limited to opening a can then adding or removing stain until I get a tone that I like.