First Timer in the UK - DMS-1

I've been looking for some time for a kit to be my first guitar build; I wanted a short-scale instrument and also something a bit different to the usual trio of ST-, TL- and LP-types. I'd have gone for a Jaguar-style if I'd been able to find one, but Mustang-like will be fine.

Back-ordered in the depths of UK lockdown, it arrived a few days ago, (impressive time once it was at Pit Bull HQ to arrive here my house in the UK, by the way - 5 days end to end) and I've been trying to work out how to get photos into this Forum ever since! I found various different options mentioned in various different posts, and I'm sure I'll find a better way to do it, as I progress with this build.

Anyway, to the guitar diary. DMS-1 unpacked, all the parts seem to be present and correct, including the upgrades to a bone nut and Grover tuners. Two-piece ash body, maple fingerboard

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No major dents or damage to the body or neck as far as I can see, but there are a few niggles to overcome; I'd be interested to hear if these are common on Pit Bull kits.

1. A couple of wiring niggles; the wire to the selector switch only just reaches from the volume pot to its location, pulling tight on the cavity corners, so I'll be re-wiring that to give a bit of slack, and there's a joint in both wires on one of the pick-ups for no apparent reason, other than possibly wanting to make use of every last scrap of wire on a roll! Again, I'll re-wire that to avoid all unnecessary joints.

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2. The neck isn't exactly loose in the neck pocket, but it isn't what I'd call a snug fit either; the neck drops in with no pressure whatsoever. I think a couple of plane shavings off a scrap bit of maple might be called for.

3. The pre-drilled holes for the bridge aren't all aligned - maybe the template was for a different bridge. The front two and the middle rear one look OK, so I'll think about plugging and re-drilling the other two - I hate screws that go in crooked!

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4. It looks like the router took two passes at the nut slot, and didn't get them aligned. I wouldn't have worried if the extra gap was at the back, but at the front it may allow the nut to twist. Maybe another sliver of maple...

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Next up, hunting for glue blobs, and trying to work out why I appear only to be able to have five pictures per post!

Hi Allthesethings.

Best to scrutinise builds that have gone before to witness possible stumbling blocks.

I have done this one already along with OliSam so precedents have been set.

Firstly I would definitely discard the screws that hold the bridge down.
Probably slightly bigger ones would be handy.
I found the bridge required moving backwards a few millimetres as the bass saddle is way back.

Full disclosure is available from here:

https://www.buildyourownguitar.com.a...ad.php?t=10609

cheers, Mark.

Hello, and welcome.

Unfortunately most (if not all) kits will have small defects that require overcoming. Fortunately, nothing in yours seems insurmountable from what I can see.
Whilst those wiring bits aren't critical, the joined pickup leads is pretty ordinary IMO. That said, if you're an experienced player, you may not be satisfied with the kit pickups anyway and consider upgrading to something you know you like.

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...the neck drops in with no pressure whatsoever.

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Sounds perfect to me! With screw-fixed necks that is exactly what I want. 1) it allows for finish build-up on the edge of the pocket. 2) allows for proper neck alignment without risk of damaging the finish on the edge of the pocket. 3) it allows for seasonal/environmental expansion/contraction of the timber. The fit of the sides of the heel and neck pocket are less important than the mating of the two bottoms IMO.

The bridge mounting holes are definitely a little sloppy, but as Mark said, it may require relocating to achieve proper intonation anyway. This is a common occurrence with kits. Dowelling and re-drilling is the way to go and if you're planning on a string-through setup, you will need to drill those holes anyway.

The nut slot issue is unfortunate but fixable. It looks like the nut is square with the fretboard so that's in your favour.
Presuming that extra gap goes all the way to the bottom of the nut slot, I would use some maple veneer (or other similarly light coloured timber). I'd shape it and sand it to fit, then use CA to glue it into place.

I'm sure McCreed meant use CA to glue the veneer into place. But that's a very small gap to fill with veneer, which will need to be wafer thin. For the nut itself, PVA or Titebond to glue the whole length of the nut. If you use CA, then just a couple of small drops on the bottom of the nut. Too much, and you won't get it out if it needs replacing.

But you'll probably find that any nut you get will be too tall to start with. They really are designed to have the slots cut down to height with nut files and then the excess height above the slots filed off and sanded smooth. But good nut files are really expensive, so the normal kit method is to keep sanding away at the bottom of the nut until the slots are at the right height. So don't glue the nut in straight away otherwise you'll be right back where you were. String tension will keep the nut in place when setting up, so don't glue the nut in until you are happy with the neck relief, string action and string height at the first fret.

There isn't a one-size fits all solution for nut slot height, as it all depends on how much neck relief you like and what action you like as to how high/low the slots will need to be above the fretboard to give sufficient clearance at the first fret. And if you set the guitar up for slide, you'll probably want a higher nut slot height to avoid the slide pressure fretting the stings over the first couple of frets.

The pre-built forum software sets a maximum limit of five hosted pictures per post (and one embedded video link). If you want more, then you'll need to host elsewhere (say Flickr) and link to them. I use a mixture of site hosted and remote hosted pics. Note that if remote hosting, the link needs to be of the image itself (so the link should end with .jpg or .png), and not of the page the image is hosted on, which won't display anything.

Otherwise, all as the two posts above.

Thank you every for your replies on the various topics I raised!

My aim for this first build was to go with everything stock, but making it as good as possible first time round, then think about upgrading various components (or maybe do another build, having made many mistakes first time round!).

I am blessed with a stack of solid maple ex-kitchen cupboard doors, donated by a friend who was having a kitchen replaced, so I was proposing taking a hand-plane to a scrap to make slivers for the nut slot and neck pocket, rather than proper veneer. Although after McReed's comments, maybe I'll leave the neck pocket alone!

I did read somewhere about someone having some screws snap off in the body, so in common with most screws I get bundled with something (which are usually made of something resembling lead alloy), I tend to throw them in the bin and use quality brand screws of the same size and type. I'll be off to my favourite engineering fixings shop to replace all the screws in the kit!

With regard to Simon's helpful comments about the nut, I must admit that set-up is my biggest worry - I can and have rewired guitars before, and I can cope with intonation, and even neck relief, but string height adjustment has always seemed like black magic.. we'll see how I cope with it later in the build.

More posts when I get a bit more done.

If you are ever up Reading way, I'm always happy to do your nut/setup for you and show you how I do it.

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I'm sure McCreed meant use CA to glue the veneer into place.

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YES!!! NOT for the nut! Thanks for pointing that out Simon.

FWIW, the veneer I get is roughly .6-.7mm thick and I have sanded down to as thin as .4mm before with little effort. That gap in the nut slot looks about .4 to me, but a good plane shaving of maple will work well too.

As for kit screws, yes, they're pretty rubbish. However, if someone is stuck having to use the kit ones, good practise (even with better quality screws) is: appropriately sized pilot holes and a bit of wax on the threads before turning the screws in. (I use bee's wax)

Got the plane out to create some shavings. I decided to do the neck pocket after all as it gave me a manageable sized chunk of wood to practice with. CA glue, as advised by all you knowledgeable chaps!

Attachment 37742

I've got a bit of final sanding to do to get the tops of the shavings absolutely flush, but the neck is nicely snug now.

Nut slot next; you can see in the first photo where the router slipped, then the fillet of shaving in place.

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And now there's virtually no gap with the nut in place.

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Again, a bit of final cleaning up to do.

Next up is slightly enlarging the neck screw holes on the body so the screws seat properly, then screw the neck on to confirm my suspicions, from just clamping the neck, that the bridge holes are in the wrong place. The holes certainly aren't on the centre line, (about 1mm north of the join in the body) and it looks like about 2-3mm too far forward, as Mark forecast!

Seeing those pics, I really think you'll need a new neck. That truss rod access hole is far from central. I don't know whether you've looked to see if the truss rod is offset inside (if it's been fitted centrally) or whether you can see the end of the truss rod centred in the hole. But apart from the visual aspect you'll ether not be able to adjust the truss rod or else the rod has been fitted at an angle and is likely to twist the neck when used.

That neck shouldn't have left the factory at all. Email Pit Bull with the photos and you should have a new neck on its way to you ASAP.

Simon,

Thank you indeed for drawing my newbie attention to this! I'll get onto Pit Bull now and see what they have to say.

Thanks again.

Wow, that is the worst truss rod access I've ever seen. I'd be super curious to see what it looks like with the fretboard off.

Well spotted Simon.
Given that 24" necks don't appear in the Pitbull 'Necks' page, I guess a replacement would have to come from another kit.

I was considering a 24" replacement for my DMS at some stage.
This one was a serious contender, however the truss rod is adjustable from the butt end...so I decided no.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/24inch-M...frcectupt=true

Be interested in how this issue pans out.

cheers, Mark.

Good news and Bad news on the neck;

Good news; Pitbull have agreed that the neck needs to be replaced. Thank you, PBG, very grateful :)

Bad news; They don't have any maple short scale necks in stock and will have to order some up from the factory - 6 to 8 week delay. To be fair, they offered me a rosewood one now, but I'm really taken with the maple neck on what I plan to be a natural finish body. Not entirely a traditional approach for a Mustang, but I've seen a few pictures done like that and they look good to me.

So, while I'm waiting for the new neck, I can get on with some sanding. Then some more sanding....

So, various bits and bobs ordered to work on the body while I wait for the new neck to arrive, including a new random orbital sander (how on earth did that get in the order, dammit?) and body sanded to 240 then grain filler applied. It's now drying overnight when I'll find out if I've applied enough or have to go back for a second attempt.

Having read various articles here and elsewhere on t'internet, I was torn between just applying several coats of polyurethane with lots of sanding, or the much advocated grain filler followed by loads of coats of Tru-oil. Eventually, I decided to go for grain filler and oil, mostly because I've never used these things before and I wanted to see how it would work. Got the grain filler, but no Tru-oil in my local old-fashioned hardware shop, despite them having more wood finishing products than I've seen anywhere, ever. So I've bought some Danish oil which, various discussion articles conclude, might be more or less the same thing but maybe with less varnish in it. I'm anticipating howls of 'You idiot !" from forum members...

For future reference tru oil comes from your local gun shop.

...or Amazon/ebay/online (which Jim doesn't do).

You'll need at least two grain filler applications with ash, maybe three. It will always shrink a bit after application as the water or oil evaporates, best to let the first application dry well before sanding back, and then leave it a day or so to allow for further shrinkage before the next application. Not like you're racing to get it all done at once!

So whilst I'm waiting for the neck to show up, I decided to get going on the body finish and the electrics. Not the ideal order of tasks, I suspect, but better than watching TV....

Body grain-filled three times then sanded to 240 grit with a machine, then hand-sanded to 360. First coat of Danish oil applied, only (insert large number here) more coats to go...but it does feel very smooth already.

Attachment 37965


Then I got on with loading the scratch-plate. As you will recall, the wire from the switch to the volume control on the pre-wired harness was a touch too short for comfort so I've replaced it. I also replaced the rather tatty masking tape that covered the join in the bridge pick-up cable with heat-shrink tubing, after redoing the joint. Copper screening applied, although just the scratch-plate took all of the pack that I bought with the kit, so I'll need some more to do inside the body.

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Soooo...after waiting nearly three months, it turns out that the factory can't supply Pit Bull with replacement necks for DMS-1 kits (24" scale length). That's a bit of a blow and something of a hole in the whole selling and servicing of kits chain, in my view. Anyway, Ben agreed to refund some of the cost, which will go some way towards buying a new neck myself - which I've done. Without going to bespoke companies or top-end suppliers of licensed neck, I found a 24" scale neck from a seller on eBay, in the UK. Undoubtedly made in China at the price, but supplied from the UK in only a few days. The fretboard isn't maple, as I'd wanted, but it's the only one I could find, so it'll have to do.

It is fractionally small than the Pit Bull neck, so I've moved up to veneer to pack out the neck pocket, then sanded it down slightly for a snug fit.

Here's the neck, embellished with my proposed logo. It's an épée, a fencing sword, a big thing in my past.

Attachment 39026

I've drilled the holes for the tuners, and after a bit of trepidation, and a couple of clamps, drilled the holes for the neck screws.

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Having got the neck fitted, I took to a bit of repeated measuring to work out exactly where the bridge should go, front to back, and used bits of thin string running over the nut to work out where it should go, left to right (or up and down, depending on your view) to get the strings equidistant from each side of the neck. And forgot to take any pictures before drilling the bridge holes. The cheap plastic nut that came with the neck has now gone, and will be replaced by the bone one I ordered with the original Pit Bull neck. I'll see if it needs any modification later on.

Next up, neck out and fret levelling. Made the neck flat with a notched edge, then loads of masking tape on the fretboard, sharpie marking on the frets, and 360 grit on a long piece of known flat hardwood. Once they were all level, repeat very gently with 600 grit. As you can see in the photo, there was quite a difference between the highest frets and the lowest. Hopefully fret crowning will still be OK, given that some frets are only just flat on the top and some are very flat...we'll see when the newly ordered fret-crowning file arrives!

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Originally Posted by AllTheseThings

Soooo...after waiting nearly three months, it turns out that the factory can't supply Pit Bull with replacement necks for DMS-1 kits (24" scale length).

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That's a blow. Probably the reason why the DMS kits have disappeared.
At least your replacement is proper rosewood...the DMS one's were 'engineered' rosewood.

cheers, Mark.

Fret crowning file arrived so, rather nervously, started the filing. I don't know if I've done it properly, or enough, and I guess I won't know until I get it strung up and try to play it. I decided that i'd rather file the frets too little at this stage, rather than too much...

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I did make a rookie error with the masking, as I discovered after taking the neck to the polishing wheel....fortunatley it came off with some 600 grit sandpaper, which I will have to do all over before applying Danish oil to the neck.

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After about half a dozen coats of Danish oil all over, and a few more on the headstock, this is what we have.

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Next came shielding the control cavities in the body - I'd already done the back of the scratch plate, whilst I was waiting for the neck to arrive. Since I'd used up the entire roll of tape bought from Pit Bull on the back of the scratch plate, I found the cheapest source was a garden shop; slug tape, normally used to go round flower pots to keep slugs and snails off your prized blooms, but hopefully it'll work here. It's a bit more fiddly than the stuff from Pit Bull, as it is thinner and more prone to splitting at awkward corners, but it seems to do the job.

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Then on with the scratch plate - Yes, I had tested that it made sound and all the controls worked before putting it! I discovered that this had to go on next, as there wasn't room to manoeuvre it in once the neck was in place. Maybe if I'd routed out the cavities a bit, it would give the option of getting the neck and the scratch plate with electronics on or off, independently of each other. Something to think about for next time.

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Finally, on with the neck, which thankfully all lined up again, and tuners onto that.

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Next time, stringing up and all the set-up to do.

Nicely done ATT, nice and clean. I think the rapier makes a very effective brand for your headstock.

Thanks, FrankenWashie!

I've just had a go at stringing up, and as Simon Barden predicted, the nut is WAY too tall. I've just popped back to see what Simon suggests to fix it, so that's next.

Oh and one of the cheap strings provided along with the Ernie Balls set, snapped as I tuned it up. Oh well....

If your nut is too tall your options are to cut your nut slots deeper, or remove it and very carefully sand o r file the bottom of it to reduce the overall height. You need to be careful to keep it square across its width and front to back if you do so.

Any easy way to keep your nut sanding job square is to pencil mark the amount you want to take off, mount your belt sander upside down and kiss your finger tips goodbye. I like to wear gloves when I’m performing this procedure.

I've discovered how laborious sanding/filing the bottom of the nut is, although I was doing it by hand, rather than DarkMark's belt sander trick!

I've started on the cheap plastic nut that came with the neck, to get a bit of practice in before trying on the bone nut upgrade I bought with the PB kit. Makes me think that nut files are the way to go...except for the £70-odd for a decent set. There seem to be some at around £5-6, then various prices up to about £20 before getting to Hosco sets at £70.

Has anyone tried these cheap sets? Are they so horrible as to be worthless?

That finish looks great, nice work!

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...mount your belt sander upside down and kiss your finger tips goodbye. I like to wear gloves when I’m performing this procedure.

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One way to do this more safely is holding the nut with a Hand Vise or Sheet Metal Vise-grips

Gloves are still not a bad idea though. With the hand vise shown, you can epoxy or hot glue some pieces of plastic milk bottle onto the jaws so the teeth don't mar the nut.

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There seem to be some at around £5-6, then various prices up to about £20 before getting to Hosco sets at £70.
Has anyone tried these cheap sets? Are they so horrible as to be worthless?

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IMO, nut files (and fret files) are not an area to cheap out. I'd be willing to bet if you got the Hosco, you'd use them on your other guitars or a likely next build :o.

I use the same method for sanding saxophone reeds flat.

A blob of blue-tack.

cheers, Mark.

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Originally Posted by AllTheseThings

Thanks, FrankenWashie!

I've just had a go at stringing up, and as Simon Barden predicted, the nut is WAY too tall. I've just popped back to see what Simon suggests to fix it, so that's next.

Oh and one of the cheap strings provided along with the Ernie Balls set, snapped as I tuned it up. Oh well....

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Very common for the nut to be too tall and also the cheapy strings are notoriously terrible. Good for ballparking the first setup but that's about it.

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Originally Posted by DarkMark

Any easy way to keep your nut sanding job square is to pencil mark the amount you want to take off, mount your belt sander upside down and kiss your finger tips goodbye. I like to wear gloves when I’m performing this procedure.

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Yikes, gloves on any machine with turning parts is a no-no DM. Potential to kiss more than your fingertips goodbye.