Jon's 2nd build: GSM-1

Hello all,

Having (nearly) finished my 335, it's time to start my next build, a GSM-1.

I received the kit this week, and I'm very happy with it. It's a two-piece mahogany body, and the pieces are nicely matched. The neck is a very snug fit. I haven't made any measurements yet, but the neck pocket will require some sanding to allow the fretboard to clear the neck pickup route.

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At the moment, I've got something in mind like this:

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I think that finish is called Transparent Black. That's obviously on a maple top, so I won't quite get there. My plan is along the lines of:

1. Grain fill with ebony timbermate
2. Lots of sanding
3. Black stain with FW Black Japan
4. Tru Oil on top.

I'd like to get a warmer tone, and I recall seeing photos where people have used another stain underneath/on top of the black, but I can't find them at the moment. The sort of finish that looks black in dull light, but reveals the colour when it catches the light.

I'm planning on getting some Tonerider Rocksongs and chrome surrounds. I might pimp the electronics a bit with push-pull pots to split the coils.

Cheers,

Jon

'Grain fill with Timbermate' Somebody may call around and put you on the barby.

I used it to highlight the grain but not necessarily fill it.

cheers, Mark.

Ah, OK. Didn't mean to start a religious war! I mean "fill in the pores" on the mahogany.

When staining I’ve had no issues grain filling with Timbermate. If you are spraying solid colour it doesn’t do the job though. I will be testing that theory again in the near future though.......

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Originally Posted by jonwhitear

I haven't made any measurements yet, but the neck pocket will require some sanding to allow the fretboard to clear the neck pickup route.

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Not quite sure what you're saying here. The pocket, or the end of the fretboard? On mine I just fitted the neck so the end of the fretboard was just back from the edge of the pickup rout. The end of the tenon doesn't butt up against the back of the rout.

With TruOil on the black, it will be more of a very dark brown colour. But you may not get that much differentiation between the wood and the figure and you may just get pretty much all black, unless you use a very weak stain. The mahogany is relatively dark to start with, which doesn't help.

The finish in the photo will have been done with a black tinted lacquer over a stained and sanded maple top, with clear coat on top of that. It really is hard to translate a finish on a light wood to a finish on a very different wood.

Simon, yes I didn't really put that into words very well ;-) What I meant was, when I installed the neck, the fretboard was protruding into the pickup route somewhat, and I hadn't done any measurements to see if the scale length was correct in that position. I still haven't done the measurements, but with a little more force pushing on the tenon (i.e. to move the nut away from the bridge) I can get it to the point where the end of the fretboard lines up with the pickup route. In other words, it seems to be a perfect fit.

I hear what you're saying about the finish. Do you think that, with ebony coloured pore filler and then a black stain, that I'll still get some of the wood grain showing through? I'm having a bit of trouble finding another piece of mahogany to try the finish out on. Would you raise the grain with water before applying the timbermate? If not, is it just a matter of filling, sanding flat, and then staining?

Oh yes, still no hole for the bridge grounding wire on these. I haven't knocked the plastic nut off yet, but it looks like it's in the right place, so I'm hopeful there's no spurious pin underneath it.

Cheers,

Jon

Not having done it, it's hard to know. It depends how dark the black stain is. You may see some from close up but from further away, it could just look black, or it may look a dark grey.

Reading around the web, Minwax Jacobean stain over a black grain filler was recommended to give a black grain and slightly lighter body finish on mahogany. But Minwax seems to be US centred, so I don't know if that's an option for you, and I don't know if there are similar alternatives available. The black leather dyes are reported to just go solid black.

AA rub down with water first is generally recommended to raise the loosest grains so they can be sanded off.

But you really need to sand the body flat first, then grain fill, sand that back, then stain. If you sand back the body fully flat and level after grain filling, then you're likely to sand off grain-filled areas and end up with unfilled pores.

Now the guitars had a week to acclimatise, I've tested the neck fit with the scale length measured. Looks good to me. It does, however, leave the heal protruding from the body quite a long way. Would it be safe to shave this down? If so, any tips on how to do it other than go at it with a rasp?!

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Originally Posted by jonwhitear

Now the guitars had a week to acclimatise, I've tested the neck fit with the scale length measured. Looks good to me. It does, however, leave the heal protruding from the body quite a long way. Would it be safe to shave this down? If so, any tips on how to do it other than go at it with a rasp?!

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With mine I had to move the neck out about 6mm to get the intonation right. Would had been a lot further if I had stuck with the original bridge. Bought a Gotoh bridge that has more adjustment. I made up a shim to go between the body and the neck heel so when I went to glue it I knew I had the right measurement for the intonation.
The bridge and tail piece holes where out about 2.5mm as well. Plus there was no earth wire hole to the bridge. The fretboard needed a few cracks filled plus 2 frets needed gluing down. Other then that it went well.

I used a Dremel with a drum sander attachment to reduce the step on my neck heel. I didn't remove it completely, in order to benefit form some extra neck rigidity, but moved the flat heel curve back by about 2cm and modified the neck/heel transition curve to suit so it was a much more gentle one.

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Originally Posted by Rodc

The bridge and tail piece holes where out about 2.5mm as well. Plus there was no earth wire hole to the bridge. The fretboard needed a few cracks filled plus 2 frets needed gluing down. Other then that it went well.

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Ouch, sounds like an uphill battle! I'm happy with my kit - it all measures up well. I've found a couple of small dings, but I have a feeling they've been made by me ;-)

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

I used a Dremel with a drum sander attachment to reduce the step on my neck heel. I didn't remove it completely, in order to benefit form some extra neck rigidity, but moved the flat heel curve back by about 2cm and modified the neck/heel transition curve to suit so it was a much more gentle one.

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Simon, thanks for your advice on both the finish and the heal.

Finish wise, I've been trying to find some mahogany offcuts to try a few things out on, but I'm struggling. I can get mahogany knife blanks on eBay at a reasonable price, but postage is expensive and/or slow. In Sydney, it seems the timber suppliers who carry mahogany are well outside town. I might just have to go ahead without testing it, on the basis that if it all turns to custard, I can sand it back and start again.

I think I'm going to try your approach with the heal, i.e. not remove it completely, just move the step back towards the body and gently transition it from there. No Dremel for me, so rasp to is ;-)

I did start off using a rasp, it's just a bit slower.

Here's what I ended up with:

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I've had a chance to spend quite a lot of time on this build over the last couple of days. I got the headstock shaped, the heal shaped, the timber mate on, and a few coats of stain. Here are the results. I can't decide whether I like the striped effect from the stain being taken up unevenly, or whether I hate it. I might have to put a coat of oil on before I decide.

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I was aiming for a mahogany / black burst, and I think the black burst part of that worked OK. The mahogany has come out rather pink though. I started with two coats of Feat Watson Mahogany, diluted 1 part stain to 2 parts colour reducer. Then I went around the edges with Feast Watson Black diluted 1 part stain to 3 parts colour reducer, working it in with a separate swab of cloth.

I might add another coat of mahogany tomorrow, and see how it looks then.

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

I did start off using a rasp, it's just a bit slower.

Here's what I ended up with:

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That looks good. You've made a much neater job of it than I did. I love that finish as well.

Thanks. It's still not sanded flat or polished yet.

I've made some more progress on the finish. Here are a few photos. Lots of coats of Tru Oil, and I've just wet sanded w/ 1200 grit. I think I'l leave it for a week or so now before polishing. The finish isn't perfect by a long way but I'm scared of sanding through again.

I can't decide whether I'll fit the scratch plate or not. At the moment, I'm leaning towards "not". I also have some chrome pickup rings on their way. I haven't set the neck yet - these photos are a mock build.

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Looking good. I like the subtleness of the burst.

Very unusual and interesting. Nice job.
I think the scratchplate would be a bit too much black. Your chrome rings sound like a good idea.

As you’ll have chrome rings, I’d stick with the original general idea and don’t use a scratchplate. But I’d get some silver knobs and a chrome switch tip as well (you may have to buy a new switch that comes with one to guarantee a good fit).

Downside of no scratchplate is that the body will get scratched. So it’s important to wait a good while for the finish to cure and harden properly to minimise the effects if playing on the finish. Alternatively you coukd see if you can get a clear or mirrored scratchplate that will compliment the overall look.

Thanks guys.

As is happens, the chrome pickup rings arrived today. Unfortunately I received a set suitable for an arch top, rather than flat. Anyway, I don't really like them. Here they are along with a couple of telecaster-type chrome knobs I had lying around.

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The actually look better with the pick guard, I think. Now I'm just confused.

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Anyway, I think I might get some plain chrome rings, and some transparent or silver speed knobs, and see how that goes.

Its the pattern on those rings I think that complicates it. I agree that plain chrome rings are well worth trying. I like the plated knobs in principle, but a lower and wider knob, speed knob sized say, would be preferable to my eyes.

Plain chrome for me as well, and I'd look for some knobs like the silver ones ones on this page (somewhere a bit more local to you) https://www.axesrus.co.uk/4-x-Gibson...s-p/bknobs.htm

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I've bought some that may or may not go on my EX-1 (it's a choice between silver or black as I've got both available).

Yes, I wasn't really sure about the pattern on those pickup rings when I ordered them, but they were the only ones I could get that are actually chrome plated metal. All the plain ones I could find (on ebay) were plastic, although there shouldn't be anything wrong with that.

I might source a couple of styles of knob, and see what works best. The idea of shorter, fatter chrome plated knobs sounds good, as does the silver speed knob.

I shall see what I can get. I(n the meantime, I decided to give the finish another wet sand to try to get rid of the orange peel. That's worked really well, and I now have a much more even finish. So even, I can even see bare wood through it on one edge ;-(

I think 'sand through' must be my middle names.

Chrome covered plastic should be fine, at least until you can source metal ones. The standard rings are plastic after all. But if metal, they'd need to be brass or nickel underneath, something non-magnetic to stop them affecting the pickup.

Since we're adding our own 2 cents worth... I actually prefer the original black p/up rings.

I think more chrome is too much. I do like the look of no scratch plate, but would be also concerned about scratching the finish, so a clear one would be ideal.

My scheme would be:
Black rings; clear scratch plate and either chrome dome top knobs or possibly amber top hat knobs.

I like the black scratch plate, but I'd probably trim the shape a bit to the form of the body, maybe even enough to see the start of the fade.

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I also like the black pickup rings. Too bad the hog stain didn’t work out, in the photos I thought it looked good. The final finish looking just as good.

I've received my Tonerider Alnico IIs, and have been working on the electronics. I ended up going for a push/pull on each volume control to switch between parallel and series coils, and another push/pull on each tone pot to select a bypass, i.e. when pulled, the output of the pickup goes directly to the switch, and bypasses the tone and volume pots. That makes a surprising difference to the tone. Unfortunately, even after testing this during assembly (and this was the fiddliest soldering I've done for a while), when I'd put everything together, my bridge pickup output is very low - a problem for another day.

I'm a bit confused about which way round Tonerider neck pickups should be installed. The instructions say "screws outwards" but a search around here suggested that would result in phase issues, so I've installed them with screws nearest to bridge.

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I'm a bit confused about which way round Tonerider neck pickups should be installed. The instructions say "screws outwards" but a search around here suggested that would result in phase issues, so I've installed them with screws nearest to bridge.

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Looks great Jon, good work!

Typically (or traditionally) the slug coils are both on the "inside" IYKWIM.
Phase issues are a result of how the pickups are physically wired, not their orientation.

There is some argument as to the tone difference between slug coil vs screw coil when splitting due to added capacitance of the nickel cover. So theoretically, there could be a difference tonally depending on which coil you split to in the neck, but nothing to do with phase.

Personally I think the tonal difference between the two coils is mostly anecdotal, but people are funny about tone...

Screw orientation doesn't make any difference at all to the signal polarity. Gibson decided that screws outwards looked best, so that's how they got installed on Gibsons and everyone else with that style of humbucker copied them. The only difference to the signal polarity is made when connecting up the pickups in reverse or the magnet is rotated 180° along its long axis. So you can happily rotate the neck pickup if you want to.

What you will find is that different manufacturers have a different standard output signal polarity, so for example Seymour Duncan pickups have a different output polarity to Iron Gear pickups and you'll have to swap the connections over on one of the pickups if you mix them for the 'both pickups' on position to be fully in phase. Fine with 4-wire pickups but not easy if both single wire pickups (where flipping a magnet on one of them is probably the easiest solution).

Your wiring appears (from what I can see on the photos) to depend on the copper foil providing the ground link to all the pots via the selector switch. I'd look at installing a dedicated ground wire to the pots, which may help with the output issue.

You aren't doing any coil splitting here, but I'd suggest that if you were, the physical position of the selected coil makes more difference than the slug/screw selection. The nearer the bridge the coil, the brighter the sound, the nearer the neck, the bassier it will be. Bit also, screw poles will be physically nearer the strings than the slug poles, if only by a couple of mm, so should have have a slightly stronger output with more low end compared with the pickup rotated and the split coils in the same position.

How different are the pickup outputs and what are the respective pickup heights like? The bridge will often need to be set fairly high, and the neck quite low. It can also be misleading guessing levels when listening to the sound because the extra bass from the neck pickup will always make it seem louder, even though the bridge output signal voltage can be hotter.