Cort Semi Hollow

Hey brains trust,

So I've just had a guy drop off a rather battle worn Cort semi hollow body guitar. I think it's a copy of an ES-335?

Anyway, he's finding that it flexes a lot when he plays it. I've had a bit of a play and it certainly does seem kind of soft, you can certainly de-tune it by pulling back on the neck a bit.

I'm just wondering if anyone else has come across this and thoughts on a fix?

There is certainly a bit of cracking around the neck joint, but it doesn't appear to get worse when I manipulate the neck, but I guess that's the obvious point that might be causing problems.

Does anyone know what the neck joint actually looks like where it attaches? Would it be a dove tail?

It also looks like the board has dried out and the frets are attempting to push through the binding.

Some pics, just after any thoughts people might have. Not entirely sure it's worth the effort to try and fix, but it's been left here indefinitely to see if I can do anything with it...

https://i.imgur.com/2alEfPl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/5BZ48Pl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/pNOlrZD.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/a7iiVhz.jpg

Couple more pics for general interest.

Appears to have genuine Gibson pickups.

https://i.imgur.com/ebjjEk6.jpg?1

It's a tenon joint... so that answers that question. Seems to be ok.. was kind of expecting cracks

https://i.imgur.com/mHYUkHq.jpg

Mega fret wear

https://i.imgur.com/MEo1t6B.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/pTAF5ZG.jpg

Looks like its been hot.

https://i.imgur.com/aHSgArW.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/UoyRBcb.jpg

mmm corrosion

https://i.imgur.com/qFGly3X.jpg

Definitely a 335 copy and looking at the photos I'd expect the neck joint would be the same or similar to Gibson and Epiphone. My approach would be to first get the neck pickup out so I can see more of the join and look for damage.

The question of whether it's worth it to fix is a bit subjective as you know. Does the bloke have any attachment to it? How much work does it need to be a nice playing guitar again?

Me personally, I'd probably have a go at fixing it up because I have a bit of a soft spot for 335 style guitars.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Haha beat me to it sonic. Great minds and all.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Yeah he really likes the guitar and wants to use it for gigging, but you are right, potentially a lot of work involved if the neck has to come off. From inside the cavity the join looks solid. The cracking in the finish isn't unusual either from what I've been able to find.

I'm wondering is some general flex is normal? I have worked on one of these guitars previously installing a roller bridge and I don't recall it flexing, but then again, I'm not going to be applying those kinds of forces to a customer guitar... so I don't know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Woltz

Haha beat me to it sonic. Great minds and all.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

---

Hah ha. All good, any info is good info, even if it's only confirmation.

I'd be worried about the flexing. It it's an ES-335 it should have a center block so it would not flex any more than an SG or LP...which is to say, not much. Gibson ES-330's did not have center blocks. My experience hollow thinlines is that they are pretty sensitive to temperature and moisture, and go out of tune easily, but they should not have more flex than any other acoustic guitar.

So if there is much flex, there may be some breakage or cracking internally? If the joint has not come a bit loose, then my next guess would be the wood is somehow loosing it's integrity. If that's the case, it might be less work to replace then neck than to fix it.

If it's just the neck that's being referred to, then the only real remedy I can think of is to take off the fingerboard and inlay some carbon fibre strengthening either side of the truss rod. Or fit a thicker replacement neck (or maybe a maple rather than mahogany one).

But it does look like there's been movement around the front of the neck joint, so it may not be as tightly glued in as it should be. Which really means neck removal and re-gluing. It's obvious got very hot at some point to bend the plastics that much, and that could have softened the glue enough for string tension to have pulled up the front of the joint slightly.

I suppose you could remove the strings, clamp the joint area and see how bendy the neck is then. If it's a lot firmer, then the joint is to blame. If it's the same, it's just the neck. In which case it's then either living with it (like a lot of SG owners had to with their skinny SG necks), or else going for the strengthening option.

Something along these lines:

http://youtu.be/Uozzynq9hPg

Ya gotta love Dan!

I had a Columbus semi hollow copy back in the 80s that bent like that and kept going out of tune... Felt very guilty about selling it, but I didn't hide that there was a problem. It had no centreblock and I suspected it was the body but had no real idea how to diagnose it. I'm not sure, actually, if I have many more ideas now without a lot of very technical measuring kit. Simon's idea of clamping the neck has a lot going for it... I wonder if you could clamp the body down to a solid surface and have a reference point/scale against the end of the headstock and see how much it bent against a standard load with or without the neck joint clamped.
If it was genuine scrap it would be a good thing to take apart and try and mend because you could learn so much, but seems as if its better than that.

Thanks for the replies guys.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fender3x

I'd be worried about the flexing. It it's an ES-335 it should have a center block so it would not flex any more than an SG or LP...which is to say, not much. Gibson ES-330's did not have center blocks. My experience hollow thinlines is that they are pretty sensitive to temperature and moisture, and go out of tune easily, but they should not have more flex than any other acoustic guitar.

So if there is much flex, there may be some breakage or cracking internally? If the joint has not come a bit loose, then my next guess would be the wood is somehow loosing it's integrity. If that's the case, it might be less work to replace then neck than to fix it.

---

It definitley has a centre block which appears to be solid from what I can see of it. I am starting to wonder if it's the neck itself due to some extreme heat (as the guitar appears to have been very hot at times) so you may be right that a total replacement might be the best option.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Simon Barden

If it's just the neck that's being referred to, then the only real remedy I can think of is to take off the fingerboard and inlay some carbon fibre strengthening either side of the truss rod. Or fit a thicker replacement neck (or maybe a maple rather than mahogany one).

But it does look like there's been movement around the front of the neck joint, so it may not be as tightly glued in as it should be. Which really means neck removal and re-gluing. It's obvious got very hot at some point to bend the plastics that much, and that could have softened the glue enough for string tension to have pulled up the front of the joint slightly.

I suppose you could remove the strings, clamp the joint area and see how bendy the neck is then. If it's a lot firmer, then the joint is to blame. If it's the same, it's just the neck. In which case it's then either living with it (like a lot of SG owners had to with their skinny SG necks), or else going for the strengthening option.

---

Cheers Simon, you've confirmed my thinking about possible fixes for the neck. I think the next step will be clamping and trying to isolate whether its the neck or the join itself, that's a good idea before I do anything drastic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JimC

I had a Columbus semi hollow copy back in the 80s that bent like that and kept going out of tune... Felt very guilty about selling it, but I didn't hide that there was a problem. It had no centreblock and I suspected it was the body but had no real idea how to diagnose it. I'm not sure, actually, if I have many more ideas now without a lot of very technical measuring kit. Simon's idea of clamping the neck has a lot going for it... I wonder if you could clamp the body down to a solid surface and have a reference point/scale against the end of the headstock and see how much it bent against a standard load with or without the neck joint clamped.
If it was genuine scrap it would be a good thing to take apart and try and mend because you could learn so much, but seems as if its better than that.

---

Yep, worst case scenario it has good electronics and pickups, so we might be able to salvage some of it. He's coming to pickup a coupel of others I've been working on today so I'll have a chat with him then and keep you all updated.

Thanks again everyone for the input, so good to have you all to bounce this stuff off.

The body looks really nice, electronics are good. It's definitely worth doing something with!

Bit more messing around with the one. So the neck itself definitely flexs if I brace one hand on the heel end and push back on the headstock. I know that this is generally possible with all guitars, but this one does feel a bit softer than you'd expect. I'm not sure that's the whole story tho as if I brace the guitar body and push back on the head stock I can see the whole area here flexing:

https://i.imgur.com/PV4FA44.jpg

The joint it'self looks solid, there's no cracking or anything from the inside and the cracks around the heel on the finish don't appear to move or anything. The finish where the fretboard touches the body is also in good condition with no cracking so I don't think it's moving at the join as such, rather that whole area is flexing.

I've been searching around and came across a few stories of SG's moving as Simon mentioned above, but nothing so far like this.

I think it's either always been like that, or it getting hot at some point has somehow softened the wood. It's pretty odd.

If it got that hot there is another possible thing that I can think of with these guitars. When you flex the neck does it feel like the back or top shift or move in any way?

I'm wondering whether the sides, back or top are no longer properly adhered to the centre block by the original glue because of the heat exposure.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

That was one of my first thoughts when I picked it up and played it, that maybe the centre block had come away. It's very difficult to see in through the F holes, but it looks like it's still glued solidly to the back. But the way it's moving around the neck join is also pretty weird, so if in there is damaged or loose that might make sense. Wish I had one of those little cameras on a probe I could put in and look around with.

Might try with my phone.

EDIT: Got a couple of pics, but its hard to point it in the direction of the neck join, which is the area I'm most interested in. What I can see looks fine, no evidence of it coming away.

Ok, so we've had a chat and elected to keep researching options, one of which may be building up a kit using these electronics and putting the kit ones in this so it can be a complete wall hanger.

Does anyone have any idea where I'd find a suitable replacement neck? I can only seem to find them with an offset kind of joint.....

I've floated the idea of putting carbon fibre rods in as well, but obviously that's a bit of a mission and will require nearly as much mucking around finishing as just replacing the neck. I figure if I can get the neck off I can see better if there is anything amiss in the pocket and try and reinforce it as well if needed.

The body movement worries me. Do you have available a known good guitar you can give the same treatment to compare? But cracks in the finish must mean movement has occurred in the past, no way round that. The whole business of putting a damn great hole at the end of the neck for the pickup is structurally dubious for sure.

It seems to me that if the joint has let go on the underside but is still good on top then maybe that would match the symptoms, but I'm just guessing without the experience to make a judgement... I certainly wouldn't trust my opinion on this. You need someone who has seen 335 neck joint failures and can talk with a bit more confidence.

Yeah, it's all a bit strange. Cracking at joins isn't all that unusual though and doesn't necessarily mean the joint has failed.

At that end I don't think I'll know the full story until I get go ahead to remove the neck, which may or may not happen, depending on the course of action we decide on.