Neck worries (non PB Single Cut Style kit)

Hey Folks,

so, I got this cheap chinese single cut (L*s Paul style) kit from Amazon for around 112€ and I didn't expect much - which is actually exactly what I got, LOL... Not a big deal because it is a trial balloon for some finishing tests, still, I would be very happy if I can get it to a playable state, and here is also my biggest problem:

I have trouble properly seating the neck. It's snug with no wiggle room, which is good, but it somehow looks uneven.

There is a 1-2mm gap between the fretboard and the side of the binding, which is not right. On my other Les Paul style kit, and also all the other good builds I've seen so far, there is no gap, binding on binding so to say.

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The thing is, I can't really figure out where the problem is. I measured the routed cavity with the depth stop of my caliper and it has the same depth left and right. Also, the neck has the same height left and right. But it doesn't sit in it evenly.
The heel of the neck is also around 1mm overlapping the edge. it APPEARS the cavity is tilted, but my caliper says it's not.

I'm not quite sure what would be the best way to go:
- Sand the neck cavity on the left side down, so this side sits deeper, the space disappears and the heel sits flush? How can I make sure this will work with the strings other than installing the bridge posts now to see how it looks? If it requires installing the bridge posts, I'd have to do all the finishing first I guess.
- Or just glue it in and sand the side of the heel flush and live with the space under the fretboard?

If I would do the first option, would this change the neck angle? How do I even find out how the neck angle is and must be?
I'm sorry for all this questions, I have tried my luck on google and youtube but I haven't found that much, most probably because I lack the specific terms to search for I guess...

I know it's not a pretty kit.. and I know for most it wouldn't be even worth their time... But it keeps me busy between jobs and is a good way to test my new stains and varnishes without too many regrets (I don't want to mess up my "good" PB kit I'll do after this one).

My first move would be to clamp the neck in the pocket and see what gaps there are and how it sits once it's under pressure. You can often close up some gaps just using brute force. Any overhang at the side I'd sand off level with the body after it's finally glued up.

Neck angle needs to be tested against where the bridge will sit. Hard to do with clamps on, but if you can position them at the sides and leave a path down the middle of the neck, then you can still run a straight edge down it and see what height above the body you get at the bridge.

Just wrap tape around the bridge posts so that you can stand the bridge up in the holes without having to fit the inserts.

When set up, the bridge saddles will end up around 2-3mm higher than the intersection the straight edge makes with the bridge position. So if the bridge is sitting at a reasonable height with the bridge in that position, you should be fine.

Hey Simon,

as always, thank you very much for your good advice!

I forgot to write that I already had it clamped down, but the gap does remain. Very little changes under pressure.

So, it's not an actual problem with the gap, just a cosmetical issue IF the neck angle is ok?

I will measure it tomorrow with the tape trick and see what I get. Thank you so far :-)

Id start by wrapping the bridge and stop tail posts in tape, so there is enough tension on them to stay seated in the holes without having to install the bushings and won't affect your finish. You can then check for string travel, correct neck angle and scale length, as it is currently, before deciding to make any changes. You then know how much you have to play with IF required.

Too see what's going on in the pocket, you can rub chalk into each side and the bottom of the pocket. When you install the neck, seat it and take it back out again, you can see where the chalk marks are left on the neck heel to see where contact is it isn't being made. That may give an indication of there is anything able to be adjusted.

Les Paul kits often do have some form of gap(s) in the areas you are pointing out - some more or less than others. They usually require a little filler to help them look flush in one spot or another.

Do your tests first and let us know the outcomes, there may be something there for us provide guidance on.

I'd then suggest using chalk to coat the neck end, then when you put it in the pocket and remove it again, you can see the high points where its touching. sand those down, and repeat the procedure until it fits as best it can. As Bakersdozen says, you'll be very lucky to not have any small gaps. It is a cheap kit, not a high quality LP replica, so you can't really expect too much, or for it to be exactly like the real thing in all aspects of fit and dimensions.

I'm fully aware it's a cheap kit and I don't expect a perfect fit, but I would like to improve it as best as I can so it's actually playable. Unfortunately, my knowledge here is very limited, so that's why I'm asking :-)

I took some pictures of the neck clamped and the posts inserted with tape. Put in two tuners and set some string in place.

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I didn't have any washers to add to the posts so the actual height would probably be +1mm with the studs in place. It's hard to see with the clamp in place but the strings are not clashing against the neck.

I worry mainly about the big gap on the side of the fretboard. If it's just cosmetical, I can try to fill it with dark wood filler. But if it indicates a problem, I'd rather fix it =)

I don't mind the gaps at the neck heel. These are filled easily and with a few more coats of stain and varnish, they will hopefully blend in easily.

I will try the chalk method to see if the fit is good. But I will ask here again before doing any sanding on the neck or cavity if you don't mind =)

Looking at the pictures from your first post, there appears to be alternating gaps and contact along the bottom of the joint. Then, of course, there is that screaming gap at the treble side. Clearly, that neck was never properly fit to that body ... which is probably at least one reason the kit was so inexpensive. You're probably going to need to do some sanding to get things to sit right, either in the pocket or on the heal of the neck, or maybe both.

Also, when measuring the pocket depth and the neck, you might also check to make sure everything is square. Check the dimensions from the top to the bottom, and from the bottom of the pocket to the bottom. Then, if you have a builder's square or something you know is exactly 90°, make sure the pocket was cut square into the body. Do the same with a square on the heal of the neck.

I find a very useful thing to have is a small stainless steel square - this sort of thing
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https://www.newmodellersshop.co.uk/e...eel_square.htm
You will of course have local sources.Its an enormous help finding out which bit isn't quite square, and its also a handy small straight edge.

Rather than sanding, for this sort of thing I favour scraping with a Stanley knife blade held at 90degrees to the surface. My sanded surfaces have a distressing tendency to acquire a dome shape (more skill would presumably prevent this) and I find it much easier to keep the surface truly flat scraping - and also easier to square up the not quite square.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimC

Rather than sanding, for this sort of thing I favour scraping with a Stanley knife blade held at 90degrees to the surface. My sanded surfaces have a distressing tendency to acquire a dome shape (more skill would presumably prevent this) and I find it much easier to keep the surface truly flat scraping - and also easier to square up the not quite square.

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That's a great point, Jim. Scraping is how violin makers remove small amounts of material, rather than sanding.

I've just bought a set of scrapers, but have yet to use them in anger.

Just came back from the hardware store and got a card scraper - woooooow what a tool! I've been walking past these for a thousand times, always thinking they are some kind of spreader or something. Quickly toyed around with it on scrap wood and gosh, why haven't I bought one of these years ago? Thanks for the advice, guys!

Wanted to get one of these tiny metal square edges, but they all were too big. So I ordered some online but it will take 2 weeks. So I'm now scavenging through my Letterpress drawers to find something adequate, I think I'll have some filler or spacing material that will work out.

Also searching for chalk. I know I had some, but where... lol :D

Anyway, I hope I can make the neck fit better, looking forward to use those scrapers :)))

So, got some chalk, but.. I don't know if this is working?

Put the chalk in the routed cavity, put the neck in, but... almost no chalk on the neck.

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What does that mean? Do I have to flatten the parts where there is NO chalk or is the chalk just not transferring properly?

Oh and please don't mind the little block I attached to the end. It's just so I have more surface to glue. It is flat and small enough not to interfere with the fit. I didn't worsen the fit at least :D

You get the chalk where the pocket touches the neck, and those area are where the wood is a bit higher than the rest of the neck or pocket, and so stopping full contact.

The neck itself looks reasonably flat, but it's worth checking the faces with a straight edge and holding it up to a light to look for gaps to confirm that. If you can see gaps that appear in between the areas that you've got chalk marks on, then you know those chalk marked areas are high spots and can be sanded/scraped down. Once the neck edges are level, then I'd put the chalk on the neck (I'd use a darker colour if you've got one) and see where the marks on the pocket are, as they will be high spots that need reducing.

Wipe the chalk off each time, so you don't get get confused with what's old and what's new.

Hm, that's not working either. There is just almost no chalk transferred.... I guess I'm too dumb for this :confused:

As I still can't put my finger on where exactly the problem is, and I don't have much to lose anyway, I started scraping the backside of the neck with the card scraper to remove material evenly and bring it down in height a bit.
I'm not scraping the inside of the pocket because getting a new neck from China is easier than getting a new body (as I already put quite some work into the stain).... So far, it looks like it could work. I'm not a hundred percent sure the neck is even (meaning the strings on the bass and treble side are even across the fretboard) or if one side is higher. It's hard to say when it's clamped in and impossible to say if it isn't.
So I'm taking the risk, as I could still adjust a tiny bit on the bridge and with the nut shape.

I'll glue the neck this weekend maybe, so then I'll see if I totally screwed it :-)

What you might like to try is to cover the pocket with chalk and scrape very gently and see if the chalk comes off pretty evenly over large areas. or just on various small points. If the latter then the neck pocket is uneven, and no amount of treatment of the neck could help. And you could do the same thing to the neck of course.

I *think* I finally understood how the neck angle works. Better late than never I guess.

The neck pocket has the angle and it's routed like a "ramp". The neck itself should be dead flat, laying on the ramp, and therefore be slightly angled backwards. The neck itself should also be dead flat on the top, with the fretboard being rounded. This is all probably very obvious you will yawn, but I guess I'm a person that needs to take everything apart to understand how it works.

So what I did was completely measure every single bit of the neck heel, fretboard and "tongue", and then calculating the the height I would need to have it sit flat. In regards to my calculations, there was 1 mm too much on the side with the gap, so while the neck heel was dead flat, it was somewhat tilted. So I used my scraper to remove 1mm of wood (dayum, this was so fast with the scraper!) and still trying to have it very even with a 90° edge.

Then, I shimmed the most uneven side of the neck pocket with a piece of veneer and now the neck sits pretty snug. There is still a little overshoot in the corner but not too much.

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I can now live with the tiny gap under the fretboard that is left. Will test later if clamping it down already closes it up or if I need to adjust a tiny little bit.

I *think* the fretboard itself (and therefore the bass side of the neck) is still a tiny bit higher on the left but I don't know if this is probably even intentional? Or if it would even be noticeable when playing?

It won't be intentional but it happens a lot with these kit guitars. Often the main part of the neck is flat but the fingerboard itself is either slightly angled or it's been radiused unevenly, so one side is lower than the other.

A vert small angle is not something you notice when playing, as it's just like having the guitar body angled very slightly differently when you play.

It's hard to get rid of that small gap without attacking the top of the neck join, but that would move the neck back a bit too far to allow the edge of the pickup ring to sit on the forward edge of the pickup rout.