$33 Mystery Body

Here in Miami, while Covid-19 rages, the first named storm of the Atlantic Hurricane season is dropping so much rain on us that I am tempted to stop with the guitar stuff already and begin working on an ark. But my internet connection is stable at least, so I decided to do some other stupid thing instead: I purchased a $33 bass body on ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Unfinished-...72.m2749.l2648

There are a number of things wrong with this presentation, not least that the body is referred to in a number of places as a "barrel." The email that I sent to the seller resulted in no actual new information. Still, there were three things that attracted me to this body. First was the price. Hard to beat $33 with shipping from a US seller. 2nd, the weight, listed as 1150g. That could mean (3rd) that it is made of paulownia, which is what the photos look like.

Of course there is reason to doubt almost all of these things. When I wrote to the seller the email clearly came back from Shenzhen, which is an odd name for a city in New Jersey, which is where the ebay listing says it will ship from.

I think the photos are to show that the body might, or might not, have a fifth hole under the neck plate. What the photos show most clearly, however is that the body may not be accurately represented by the photos. Notice that the woodgrain pattern is identical on both face pics, the only difference being the hole. I have not figured out whether they photoshopped the hole in or out. Also, I get that they side view was to show that the body is 4 cm deep...but I am pretty sure that's a Telecaster body, rather than a p-bass.

Finally, in the description, it says that the body weighs 1150g. This seems close to the shipping weight of 1350g. It also says the body is maple. I am willing to bet that it's not maple. The only kind of wood I can think of that might be that light that has been used in guitars is paulownia. Of course both could be wrong. Or it might be sycamore or something like that that is sometimes sold as maple. But hardly anything would be that light.

Should have a better idea in about a week... it may be that I will be out some shipping charges to send it back.

balsa? It's nice and buoyant, so might be good in the ark.

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Originally Posted by jugglindan

balsa? It's nice and buoyant, so might be good in the ark.

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And barrels float too, right?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by fender3x

And barrels float too, right?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

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Sure do. So it should work out no matter what you get :)

1 kilo is going to be too light I reckon.

I'm currently building a guitar out of discarded parts.

The body is the one that featured my first 'Trem-King' attempt.
It only weighs 1.5 kg and would be neck-diving like crazy.

I went to Bunnings and got a 45cm square sheet of lead flashing.
Cut it up and fitted it into an extension of the tremolo cavity.

The body now weighs almost 3 kilo.

Not much you could do with a P bass body to increase the weight though.


cheers, Mark.

You could have bought 5 bodies and saved 2.4% on the bundle!

I also wonder how they manage to get all the bodies the same weight, when wood varies in weight considerably. If it weights 1101g or 1099g, can you get a refund?

The wood grain reminds me a lot of poplar.

You'll often find a hole in the neck pocket on quite a few guitars. Occasionally I've seen them go al the way through, but it's normally just one-sided. I think it's either where they drill a hole to mount a routing template, or to fix a rod to allow for spraying, especially if the same bodies are made in a factory where they produce finished guitars as well.

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

You could have bought 5 bodies and saved 2.4% on the bundle!

I also wonder how they manage to get all the bodies the same weight, when wood varies in weight considerably. If it weights 1101g or 1099g, can you get a refund?

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Ha! If it weighs 1099 I'll be very pleased, even if it has the dreaded neck dive as Mark suggests. Alas, I suspect that will not be the case. They give two different package weights in the ebay ad. One is 1300g the other is 1350g. This morning I got tracking info from Fedex and notice that that the reported packing weight was 3.75 Kg. The notice said FexEx had not yet picked it up, so I sent a message to the seller saying that I will just be sending it back to them if it is that heavy. I asked them to cancel it...but I suspect it is too late. If so, I will take a look at it, and then most likely send it back. eBay guarantees a refund if the item is different than what was ordered. I would say 3x the weight qualifies.

I agree with Joe, BTW, that it looks like poplar. I realized recently that I actually have some paulownia, because it is used in Taekwondo to make the thin breaking boards. My children have left quite a few of those boards, mostly in halves. They look a lot like poplar with two differences. Paulownia is MUCH more porous, and the streaks tend to be a bit more toward the gray end, and never yellow/green like you get with poplar. Poplar is, however, much more dense than paulownia...and might explain the weight...

If it comes, I'll report. In the meantime, I may take a look at some Youtube on chambering... maybe that's a better way to get the weight off... I have a week or so to think about it, anyway.

To chamber, you need a guitar made in two halves before the parts are stuck together (unless you want to saw it in half the difficult way). Or be prepared to remove a lot of wood, chamber it, then stick another bit back on.

Or you could simply cut round holes through it. I've seen a few Strat bodies modified that way. Russ Ballard (of Argent) had one.

Attachment 35216

Or simply rout/drill out wood that's covered by the pickguard.

The shipping weight is most likely due to a package that’s big but light. Because it takes up a lot of real estate for it’s weight (low density) the freight companies charge based on an equivalent weight - what they would expect a package of that size to weigh. I forget the industry term for this but it’s basically a billing weight.

For example, if you were to ship a gigantic empty box, they would still charge you a lot even though the weight is very low.

The difference between 1300g and 1350g is 50g, or less than 2 ounces, or less than 1/8 lb. That could be the difference in the way somebody is rounding (it might be between 1300g and 1350g), maybe a difference in packing material, or maybe the 1300g ‘package box’ was put inside another 50g ‘shipping box.’

I’m just curious - what’s the appeal of such a lightweight guitar body?

There is plenty of material that can be removed from that body without a cavity. You can extend the contour of the bevels and also add one near the upper horn to make the body thinner. You just have to watch thickness near the control cavity routing. As long as you don’t make it thinner between the neck pocket and wherever the strings mount, it should be fine structurally.

My most favorite guitar was neck heavy. I loved everything else about that guitar - the sound, the playability, the look, etc. But eventually I just couldn’t take the neck diving and sold it, and I don’t even regret it.

Some options to deal with a neck heavy guitar are: a) ultra-lightweight tuners ($125 usd) to save ~100 grams (this is based on guitar but they make them for bass, and I think the weight is similar because bass tuning machines are heavier), b) adding weight to the guitar body, c) using a harness instead of strap, d) using a grippy strap but ends up pulling your shirt all over the place, e) moving the strap buttons to awkward looking positions (probably the most effective and sensible solution, but also the strangest looking), f) attaching strap to neck instead of button, g) only playing sitting down, f) for just not giving an f.

The width of a P-bass is ~13 inches at the lower bout. If you take a 13x13x1.25 volume (211.25 in3 or 0.12 lb3) and multiply by the low limit of published density for Poplar (21 lb/ft3) you get a weight of 2.52lbs which is close to the 2.4 lbs they say this guitar body weighs.

I don’t really know what the actual volume of the guitar would be but 13 x 13 x 1.25 seems generous (small). Obviously they say thickness is closer to 1.5 inches and the guitar is longer than 13 inches but I tried to be generous with material removed for the bevels, control cavity, and around the horns and neck and stuff.

Using their dimensions you get 4.83 ft3 which would be 4.83 lbs if a solid block of lightweight Poplar. If somehow 50% of that solid block was removed to shape the guitar, then you’ve got the 2.4lbs advertised weight (assuming it’s Poplar).

I’m an engineer who just had a giant energy drink on the way to do some vehicle testing, and found out the vehicle is down for maintenance. I needed to burn off some of that engineering energy

I have never seen one that was in two halves. Mostly the way i have seen them is hogged out with a forstner bit or a router until either the top or the bottom looks sort of like Russ Ballard's (I am listening to Hold your Head Up as I write this). Then it is covered with thin wood. I could conceivably do this with some 1/8" ply that I have around here somewhere. I have seen a few without the skin as well...hmmm. Something to consider if it shows up. Still trying to cancel the order. so far they are blowing me off. Not answering my mail to them. Not cancelling. FedEx still hasn't picked it up. Not good signs.

I needed both headphones to hear the strat over that B3 organ ;-)

I can't fathom why you'd want it that light.

The Squier Bronco body weighs 2 kilo and with normal tuners it's a neck diving pain.

When you type 'P bass body weight' into Google, the first answer is '8.5 to 9.5lbs' 3.9 to 4.3 kilos.

cheers, Mark.

KC, The main reason that I want it light is to take strain off my back. I have a Jazz with P+J pups that I really like, but it's close to 9.5 lbs, and after a while my back starts to hurt. Neck dive could be an issue in a light bass, but I figured I might be able to use a sticky strap and light tuners and a relatively small headstock. Perhaps I have gone overboard on the weight thing?

JG, my wife is an engineer. Usually when she starts doing calculations it means I am going to have work to do...I think your calculations might not be far off if poplar weighs 21lbs per cubic ft. If it were that light, it would be fantastic, but I think it would be close to the weight of heavy paulownia. The wood database has poplar at 29 lbs per cubic ft. I have a poplar strat body blank, which weighs in at about 4.5 lbs. If you can believe GFS they say their paulownia bodies weigh in at about 3.5 lbs, and the wood database has paulownia at 18 lbs per cubic ft. I actually like poplar a lot, and if that's what it turns out to be...particularly if it's light, maybe I'll keep it. I am also intrigued by the idea of shaving parts of it to make it thinner. maybe sort of like an unbound Fender Aerodyne...

What worries me is that the package weight that the seller reported to FedEx is 8.3 lbs. Hard to imagine that there is a 3lb bass body with 5 lbs of packing material in that package...

Right now my favorite bass is my hybrid, which weighs around 7.5 lbs. That seems close to the Goldilocks weight. I was sort of hoping to get a p-bass around that weight or a little lower. The hybrid has no neck dive, but that could be partly the different geometry (it's an ES type) and the fact that it has Hipsot ultralight tuners.

If the weight is such a critical issue, have you considered a 30"?

The Bronco bass isn't much heavier than a guitar.

These are out of stock at the moment but I'm sure you could request a weight test when they are?

https://www.pitbullguitars.com/shop/...-kit-30-scale/


cheers, Mark.

A light body is certainly a case for a thinner jazz-style neck, lightweight tuners and a cut-down headstock shape. Fender once did something along those lines with their Aerodyne basses.

Don't forget that the body weight will be added to by the bridge, pickups and electrics. A heavy brass bridge would help to provide some balancing weight.

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Originally Posted by king casey

If the weight is such a critical issue, have you considered a 30"?

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Well, I have this 34" scale Jazz neck already...

Looks like they did not stop the shipment in New Jersey. The body should be making its way south down Interstate 95 to Miami...

Rocketing along, if it is as light as they say.

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

Rocketing along, if it is as light as they say.

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Ha! I saw that the FedEx office is right next to the I-95, which runs from Miami, so I am just assuming they'll send it by truck. To me, the best thing about driving on I-95 is that my stately minivan (MPV outside the US?) is every bit as fast as the Lamborghini in the next lane.

"minivan" is quite common here in Australia. more common than MPV.

Good to know. My minivan is nothing if not common ;-)

The body has arrived and the mystery has, I believe, been solved. Two mysteries, maybe. It was packed very poorly by PB standards. Just a super thin foam sleeve and a cardboard box without padding. Nevertheless, I saw no evidence of damage or dings.

It has been shaped, but will need quite a bit of sanding. That said, for $35 US, I would not expect perfection, and it actually looks pretty good.

Attachment 35332
Attachment 35333

Not exactly book matched and clearly four pieces...

Attachment 35334

...but the top and back look pretty good and you have to look hard to figure out where the seam is if you don't look at it from this last angle.

So what is it? Definitely not maple as the ebay seller suggested. I am almost certain it is Paulownia. For one thing it looks like Paulownia

Attachment 35335

This is a pic of it next to a small paulownia board.

It is also exceptionally light: 2.62 lbs / 1.19 kg. I really did not believe that it was going to be close to the weight advertised, and it is slightly heavier, but it is still the lightest solid body I have ever held.

It does have a bit of a flaw around the neck pocket...

Attachment 35336

But I think that can be repaired...which solves the second mystery about whether I'll keep it. I guess I will.

Will now need to start looking for ultra light tuners and a heavy bridge to balance it out a bit.

So, assuming that I am building this one, does it count as a PB build or a non-PB build? I know that a guitar does not need to be 100% stock to be a PB build. Mine will have a PB neck, and G-d-knows-who-brand body. So less than 50% PB. What do you think?

Congrats that it's not too heavy.

I have a Squier Tele (Affinity) that's fitted with a PitBull neck.
Does it qualify as a PB build?

I'd say not.

cheers, Mark.

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Originally Posted by king casey

Congrats that it's not too heavy.

I have a Squier Tele (Affinity) that's fitted with a PitBull neck.
Does it qualify as a PB build?

I'd say not.

cheers, Mark.

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Reading between the lines, are you saying "the body makes the build"? I don't know the answer, it's probably a moderator call.

No one will mind. Perhaps post the diary in the non pitbull area if you are worried about it. I think most of us come into the site and sort by 'New Posts' so it doesn't really matter where it is in the forum to get traffic.

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Originally Posted by Sonic Mountain

No one will mind. Perhaps post the diary in the non pitbull area if you are worried about it. I think most of us come into the site and sort by 'New Posts' so it doesn't really matter where it is in the forum to get traffic.

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I don't.

I generally read everything anyway.

I'd say non-PB build, as it really needs to be a full kit to qualify in my book.

Maybe we should start a part-PBG build section? ;)

Just to build on the earlier comment regarding how the size affects the weight charged.
The process is called 'Volumetric Weight Calculation'.
All airfreight is based on an assumption that a certain size of package will weigh at least 1 kg.
Any package is measured and then the mimumum 'weight' calculated using a 'Divisor'.
Currently DHL use a divisor of 5000.

So, if a package measures 100cm x 50cm x 10cm then the calculation is
( 100 x 50 x 10 ) / 5000 = 10kg

That is the minimum you will be charged.

Sorry for the verbage but I worked for DHL for 20 years in this very area.

I guess it is worth knowing if you are considering sending fairly light items (keep the packaging small).

Cheers
Ricky

I am very appreciative for all of the advice and counsel that I receive here, and don't much care which heading the build goes under. It was more a rumination than a serious question. I have some nut blanks, some knobs and a few pots. Those are clearly parts and not a build. When I got a neck, that was probably still not a build. Probably still just parts. But a neck is closer to a build than a nut blank.

On my last build I got the body from the Fretwire, and it was the only thing I acquired from them. A body is not much closer to a build than a neck, yet they posted pics of the bass I made from their body as one of "their builds" So maybe the quintessential part of build is the acquisition of the body? Or maybe parts are parts, but a neck only shows intention and a body shows that you have begun?

When do parts become a build? I figured it was a non-PB build, but it made me wonder where the line was. I, too, feel that a PB neck does not make it a PB build. But I don't feel it's quite rational. My satisfaction with the product usually has more to do with the neck than with anything else. It's also where most of the setup time and effort goes. So why does the body feel more like it's where the build begins? I realized when I dry-fit the neck with the body and decided "I am keeping this body" that the build had begun. Whose build is it? All we know is that it is a mating PB and obscure Sino-NewJersyian parentage....

Whereas Amazon work on the reverse principle and use the largest packaging they can find to send the smallest items.

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I think most of us come into the site and sort by 'New Posts' so it doesn't really matter where it is in the forum to get traffic.

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That's almost worthy of a poll in another forum!
I am definitely a "New Posts" guy.

This has taken an oddly philosophical turn. If I replace the tuners, pickups, or bridge on my guitar, is it the same guitar? What if I repaint it? What about replacing the neck? Or replacing the body but keeping everything else? At what point does it become a different guitar?

As for new posts, I like the condensed view that the forum home page gives of new posts, but it fails when there is more than one page.

When is a build not a build??? I guess it's a fine line that is open to interpretation.

To me, a "build" is when it begins with at least an unfinished body.
To others it may be buying a finished neck and separate finished body (say a Warmoth body and Fender neck) and adding the hardware.

Starting with an unfinished body means there will be sanding & shaping involved, preparation for finishing, and then finishing followed by all the assembly/set up etc. If you add an unfinished neck to the mix, all the above applies plus likely fret work, possibly even re-fret or re-radius work.

That, to me, is a fairly comprehensive process which is beyond what I would just consider "mods" and therefore worthy of the "build" moniker.

Of course with a "scratch build", there is no question...

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

Whereas Amazon work on the reverse principle and use the largest packaging they can find to send the smallest items.

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My wife is an environmental engineer and the incredible size of Amazon boxes for small, nearly worthless items drives her, as they say in German, "Ganz aus dem Häuschen." Fortunately this was from an eBay seller and the packing was minimal. There are even a couple of dents to prove it.

Ricky's explanation for the weight calculation is interesting, and would certainly explain the weight discrepancy between what FedEx showed on their website and what the package actually weighed. Another mystery solved!

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Originally Posted by jugglindan

MPV.

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MPV was the Mazda " Mega Priced Vehicle " when the letters first appeared here

I made a couple of discoveries.

I told the seller that I was keeping the body, but that I was not 100% happy. It was badly packed which resulted in some dents. It was also not "maple"...which I told them was fine with me, but they might have happier campers if they told people t he body was paulownia, which is getting more popular and for which the body was competitively priced. This would be better, I thought than to continue claiming that it is maple. I didn't ask them for anything, and I also told them I was not going to leave bad Their response was to give me an additional $3 off the price. That brings it to under $30 with shipping. Discovery one is that you should always tell an ebay seller if you are not 100% happy. I have made this discovery before, but for all the times I have been disappointed by the sellers response, I think there have been at least half again as many where I was pleasantly surprised.

Another discovery is that the old wet-rag-and-iron trick really does remove dents. There were a couple of pretty good sized dents in this thing, and I did not really think this would work. It did work, and amazingly well. Even on one that I thought might be a gouge. The only place it did not work may actually be nick from round-over routing that I am pretty sure I can sand out.

The third discovery, that will surprise no one, buying a finished paulownia body from Guitar Fetish for $54 US would have been cheaper if I had factored in the cost of the finish. I have already spent over $40 on dye stain and pore filler...and that's only enough if the top coat I have on hand will be sufficient, and my stock of sandpaper holds out. I am not sorry about that, but their can't be a completely rational reason why I am not sorry... which is probably the fourth discovery.

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Originally Posted by fender3x

The third discovery, that will surprise no one, buying a finished paulownia body from Guitar Fetish for $54 US would have been cheaper if I had factored in the cost of the finish. I have already spent over $40 on dye stain and pore filler...and that's only enough if the top coat I have on hand will be sufficient, and my stock of sandpaper holds out. I am not sorry about that, but their can't be a completely rational reason why I am not sorry... which is probably the fourth discovery.

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Effort Justification:

people sometimes come to love what they suffer to achieve

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Originally Posted by jugglindan

Effort Justification:

people sometimes come to love what they suffer to achieve

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I have no doubt that is part of it.