Advice on pickups for my TL-1TH

Although I am initially using the stock pickups in my TL-1TH, I am planning to upgrade them at some point. One of my goals for this guitar is to have a different sonic palette to my G&L HSS, so I will start with the G&L pickups:

• Dimarzio True Velvet neck: 6.21k
• Dimarzio True Velvet middle: 6.21k
• DiMarzio PAF 36th Anniversary Bridge: 8.6k

I am most looking at the Tonerider Rocksongs (Neck 7.9k / Bridge 11.8k, Alnico 2) or Generators (Neck 7.8k / Bridge 15.7k, Alnico 5). Both are higher output than my DiMarzio set, the Generators much more so. Unfortunately I haven't heard or played either of these so I don't know which will be closer to my goals.

I am looking for versatility. I play a lot of cleanish fingerpicked stuff, rhythm, and am expanding my improvised soloing abilities. Mostly blues and indy, with some classic rock. I have 5 or 6 overdrive pedals but no distortions, which indicates where my preferences lie. These pickups will not be used for metal or high-gain distortion.

Given all that, I am leaning towards the Rocksongs, or maybe a combination, but I am open to advice.

Go the Toneriders you wont regret it. Much better price and they are great pups with easy resale if you upgrade later.

Personally, I'd wind them myself.

Thanks Andy. I am definitely going with Toneriders, just not sure whether to go with Rocksongs or Generators. The DiMarzio pickups are currently in my G&L. I listed those because I specifically want something different to that. I don't want to build a new guitar only to try to make it sound the same.

While winding my own is intriguing, I won't be going down that path. I would be open to swapping a to-order handbuilt pedal for pickups, but you build your own pedals anyway :)

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Originally Posted by jugglindan

Although I am initially using the stock pickups in my TL-1TH, I am planning to upgrade them at some point. One of my goals for this guitar is to have a different sonic palette to my G&L HSS, so I will start with the G&L pickups:

• Dimarzio True Velvet neck: 6.21k
• Dimarzio True Velvet middle: 6.21k
• DiMarzio PAF 36th Anniversary Bridge: 8.6k

I am most looking at the Tonerider Rocksongs (Neck 7.9k / Bridge 11.8k, Alnico 2) or Generators (Neck 7.8k / Bridge 15.7k, Alnico 5). Both are higher output than my DiMarzio set, the Generators much more so. Unfortunately I haven't heard or played either of these so I don't know which will be closer to my goals.

I am looking for versatility. I play a lot of cleanish fingerpicked stuff, rhythm, and am expanding my improvised soloing abilities. Mostly blues and indy, with some classic rock. I have 5 or 6 overdrive pedals but no distortions, which indicates where my preferences lie. These pickups will not be used for metal or high-gain distortion.

Given all that, I am leaning towards the Rocksongs, or maybe a combination, but I am open to advice.

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I'm far from an expert but for me the Generator bridge would probably be too hot for my taste particularly for the type of playing you've listed. If it was between those two sets then I'd be getting the Rocksongs personally.

I have to say that for my number one choice off the shelf at the moment, I really like the Seymour Duncan Pearly Gates (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4uA74373-A this Custom FMT HH Tele has a Pearly Gates Bridge) but you have to have pretty deep pockets. Having said that given I've delved into winding my own pickups I would aim to wind something very similar. They are Alnico 2, lower output (8.1k Bridge/7.3k Neck) and they give you a sweet bluesy tone when clean.

Also in regards to flexibility, consider that there are loads of wiring options for guitars, you could have push pulls to split both humbuckers, or phase change or both if you want variety.

Pickup selection is very much a personal thing though. For example all of my favourite pickups happen to have Alnico 2 magnets and so the Rick Toasters I just wound are Alnico 2, the Strat Pickups I'm about to wind are Alnico 2 and I'm going to wind a set of Alnico 2 humbuckers (hopefully similar to the Pearly Gates) for the next build after I've finished my current ones.

Don't take the DCR as an absolute measure of output. You also need to know the wire gauge used and the magnet type. Alnico 2 is less powerful than Alnico 5 (and which are both a lot less powerful than ceramics or neodymium magnets).

Smaller wire (higher wire gauge value) means that you can fit more turns on the same bobbin, and it's the number of turns that along with the magnet power, determines the output signal strength. Moving down from 42 AWG (typical standard coil wire size) to 43 AWG, the resistance per unit length of the wire goes up by approx 29%. So for the same number of turns, the 43 AWG winds will have roughly a 29% higher DCR. But you use 43AWG to fit more turns on, so the output goes up, but the longer length of wire also pushes up the resistance. So you really need to know the magnet and the wire gauge to really judge output levels. An 11.8k 43AWG pickup won't have 30% more output than an 8.6k 42 AWG one, as most of that will be taken up simply by the increased wire resistance.

I know the DiMarzio PAF will use 42 AWG, but Tonerider don't say what gauge is used on the Rocksong bridge unit, but I am guessing that it is 42 AWG, though the Alnico 2s will reduce the output compared to Alnico 4 or 5.

The Rocksongs are marketed as "our perfect hybrid-vintage set", so would seem to be emulating the classic Seymour Duncan JB bridge and Jazz neck combination.

Unless you are playing a lot of rock, then to me, JB s really don't make sense. I've fitted one to a LP copy, and removed it because it sounded far too thick and loud, with not a huge amount of dynamics. Difficult to get a clean sound without pushing the amp into overdrive. I've also fitted an IronGear JB-alike to a friend's guitar, and I didn't like that either (though they were happy).

It's hard to recommend different pickups when your style of playing really asks for a PAF style pickup. Now I'm sure the Tonerider Alnico 2 or Alnico 4 bridge pickup would sound different to the DiMarzio PAF, but I don't know if it would sound different enough for you.

The Generators are out-and-out rock machines, and I really don't think that's what you're after.

If you can get them the new Tonerider Birmingham set would be worth considering, with a 5% underwound neck and 5% overwound bridge with Alnico V magnets, so a reasonably powerful bridge and a cleaner sounding neck, but without going over the top. https://tonerider.com/product/birmingham/

Or maybe you could consider something very different and go for standard humbucker sized Gretch-style pickups. Clean and twang but still with enough power for a decent overdriven sound.

The Tele isn't a totally different style of guitar to your G&L, but there will still be some differences imparted on tone even if using the same pickups. So it is very hard indeed to say what a pickup I know about will sound like in your Tele. The chamber won't make it sound like a semi-acoustic (you'd need a much different construction method to achieve that), it just makes the guitar lighter, so sound-wise it would be just like a standard Tele.

FWIW. I love playing blues and rock like yourself. I don't use alot of distortion but love a good overdrive. So as Les Paul used to say "if you have a good clean signal, you can take it from there" (paraphrased of course). I have a '71 Les Paul Recording with very low impedance single coils. Just like Les used to play. Lovely clean sound and great with a tube screamer at 100w! Point is that sometimes you don't need the high output PUPs to get what you want. Rocksongs or AC2's would be fine. I love Toneriders ( got some in a Tele I built and they are great ) and I'm sure that whatever you get will be brilliant. So just to throw the cat in, what about a Rebel90 in one of the positions for something different. Anyway, hope that confuses you more. But like I said, I'm suer whichever way you go it will be fantastic. Good Luck

Thanks for the advice everyone. I will look into the Tonerider Birmingham pickups as well. I do like the idea of a hotter bridge and sweeter neck pickup. I would probably also wire up separately switchable coil splits for more options.

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

It's hard to recommend different pickups when your style of playing really asks for a PAF style pickup. Now I'm sure the Tonerider Alnico 2 or Alnico 4 bridge pickup would sound different to the DiMarzio PAF, but I don't know if it would sound different enough for you.

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That's a good point Simon. I went through a similar exercise in 2013 when replacing the Schaller active pickups in my G&L (goodbye 90s hair metal tone), and it's no accident I ended up with the DiMarzio PAF.

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Originally Posted by ILRGuitars

FWIW. I love playing blues and rock like yourself. I don't use alot of distortion but love a good overdrive. So as Les Paul used to say "if you have a good clean signal, you can take it from there" (paraphrased of course). I have a '71 Les Paul Recording with very low impedance single coils. Just like Les used to play. Lovely clean sound and great with a tube screamer at 100w! Point is that sometimes you don't need the high output PUPs to get what you want. Rocksongs or AC2's would be fine. I love Toneriders ( got some in a Tele I built and they are great ) and I'm sure that whatever you get will be brilliant. So just to throw the cat in, what about a Rebel90 in one of the positions for something different. Anyway, hope that confuses you more. But like I said, I'm suer whichever way you go it will be fantastic. Good Luck

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Unfortunately the Tonerider P-90s don't come in Fender spacing. But a P-90 H combo is something else to think about.

I love this part. All the research and possibilities :)

I just watched this comparison of Tonerider AC2 vs AC4. I have to say I preferred the AC2 nearly every time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGfHYUZUOrQ

I know you've had heaps of good advice here already, but I'll throw in my 2 cents anyway.

I definitely agree lower output HB's is the best choice given your description of music you like to play.
I feel you can always get more out of lower output buckers than trying trying to tame hotter ones. And I reckon lower just have better definition and clarity.

And FWIW, i prefer open-coil HB's to covered. I think the extra capacitance of covers takes away just that bit of high end that doesn't do it for me. (especially a neck HB)

I must confess I'm more of a single coil player myself, and as far as HB's go, I like mini HB's the best. I feel they're a little closer to single coils in their tone.

You typically only need Fender spacing for the bridge pickup, so a P90 in the neck would be fine (which IMO is normally the best place for one). I've just measured a P90 against the neck position of one of my Teles and it's spot-on, whilst at the bridge position it's about 2mm too narrow.

Simon is absolutely correct in what he says above with respect to the wire gauges and resistance etc.

Maybe these are what you really want - https://www.seymourduncan.com/pickup/p-rails-set

Another left field suggestion but you could always put Toasters or Filtertrons in it? That'll give you something different.