TL-1A electronic upgrade question

I recently purchased a TL-1A kit and it arrived with a 5 way switch instead of the 3 way switch on the listing. This led to me finding out about the "Bill Lawrence mod" which seemed interesting so I decided to try it out. Then I was considering upgrading the electronics on the kit. I roughly measured the control cavity on the TL-1A. The width was ~23mm so looks like for pots I'm stuck with minis because I don't want to do any extra routing, easy enough. The depth I got for the cavity was ~35mm and when I was looking at the CRL 5 way switch the specs said it had a depth of 33mm with the switch in the kit only going ~29mm deep. I'm probably just being a bit overcautious because of a lack of experience but it seems to me that once it's all wired up it could be a bit of a snug fit.

Has anyone wired their TL style kit up this way and have they run into any sort of clearance issues or did everything fit fine?

Hi Malpas,

I have not done this wiring but I have put a CRL switch in my TLA. I did have to CAREFULLY rout out the bottom of the control cavity a little bit to fit the depth of the switch especially taking into account wire clearance once wires were soldered on.

I did not have a plunge router at the time so I used a drill in reverse, a small chisel and sandpaper. You don't have to take much material out but there's not a lot of wood between the bottom of the cavity and the back of the guitar body...so little by little checking the depth with the switch fixed to the control plate.

Also if you decide to shield the cavity with copper tape you will most likley need to put electrical tape where the bottom of the switch touches the bottom of the cavity to prevent shorting or a unnecessary connection.

Andy40 pretty much answered your question, but yes, a CRL or Oak Grigsby switch will def require deepening the control cavity.
Though he is a much braver man than I, using his "routing" method! :)

I will add that unless the 5-way "import" switch isn't working or faulty in some way; do you have to replace it?

At the risk of heresy, a switch is a switch and while import switches get a bad rap, the electrons passing through the switch don't care how they get from here to there.

The import switches use a small PCB with traces to direct the signal instead of metal contacts riveted onto a phenolic wafer in a CRL.
At the end of the day, all switches will eventually fail. How long one will last over the other, IMO, is largely dependant on the user.

Are you a mad switcher? (rapidly switching back & forth through the pickups for an effect ala Hendrix/SRV? do you just switch from neck to bridge for rhythm and solos?)
Are you overall an aggressive player? How you play/treat your instrument will directly affect the longevity/dependability of any of its parts. I have worked on older guitars (higher & lower end Ibanez for example) that have import switches and they still work just fine. They are little more fiddly to clean, but completely doable.

I have also been guilty of buying into the "mojo factor" of switches; cap type; full size pots etc (pot size is a whole other debate) but if your current set up sounds good to your ears, I'm very confident that upgrading the switch & pots is not going to make it "even better".

A big part of wanting to upgrade was for the experience of doing it. The CRL style switches also seemed liked they’d probably be easier to position and solder things. I haven’t connected it up and tested the sound at all because I’m still gathering things and in the prep and planning stage. The switch I have does feel pretty solid so as long as I don’t mess up so bad that I ruin a trace soldering it should be fine.

It does mean I’d need to find out how to wire up the circuit for this switch though instead of just copying what others have done with the CRL switch.

So I did up a quick diagram of how it's wired with the CRL switch and how I assume it'd be wired with the switch that came with the kit. With the CRL switch having 1-3-5-0 on the left side of the diagram and 0-1-3-5 on the right side then I'm assuming the switch that came in the kit is 1-3-5-0-1-3-5. Is this correct or are the terminals on the switch I have wired differently?

Your ‘1-3-5-0-1-3-5’ for the kit’s switch is correct, however...

The CRL style switch has two separate poles, one each side of the wafer, each with its own common ‘0’ lug. The kit ‘import’ style 7 lug switch has a single shared common ‘0’ in the centre for the two halves of the switch, so it’s not really a two pole layout. This works fine for standard wiring, but can’t be used when you need separate poles. That is, where you need a different connection to each of the two common ‘0’ lugs like the wiring you’re wanting to use.

You will need to use a CRL/Grigsby 2 pole, or an 8 lug ‘import’ (that has two common lugs 1-3-5-0-0-1-3-5).

Sorry I missed your latest post, but WierdBits is definitely the man for this kind of question!

I'm also not clear on what the 5 switching options you're trying to achieve are, but like WB said, 2 commons would be needed. Your diagram of the 7 lug switch can't have the volume pot and the ground together, it would just create a short.

Here's a couple of other switch diagrams that might be helpful. I still have to refer to these even after doing this stuff for a while...:o


Attachment 33678

Attachment 33679
NOTE - the 7 lug switch shown above is only for standard 5-way Strat wiring!

Thanks for the replies guys. I haven't really messed around with circuits any time in the last 10+ years so I thought having the ground and volume together might cause problems but I wasn't sure. Looks like I'll be grabbing a gotoh ym-50 switch then. It's an import style switch with 8 lugs and is about the same size as the one included in the kit so I won't need to modify the body.

McCreed the 5 options for the wiring according to the article I was looking at are meant to be 1. neck, 2. neck + bridge parallel, 3. bridge, 4. neck and bridge parallel half out of phase and 5. neck with 10% less low end.

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McCreed the 5 options for the wiring according to the article I was looking at are meant to be 1. neck, 2. neck + bridge parallel, 3. bridge, 4. neck and bridge parallel half out of phase and 5. neck with 10% less low end.

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Ah, ok. So that's a capacitor off to the side in you diagrams, yes?
I thought that might be the case.

I think you'll be fine with the Gotoh YM-50. If you're going to use an import switch, at least Gotoh makes good stuff.

The only thing I personally don't like on import switches, is the lever is a bit longer than a CRL/Grigsby, so with the addition of the switch tip the whole thing sticks out more as well. It's literally only about 2mm, but I can feel it.

I've been silly enough to take the time & effort to cut back the lever and modify it to get the tip lower. It's probably just part of my self-diagnosed OCD! I'm sure 99% of players wouldn't even care...

With the switch shaft length I think it largely just comes down to what you're used to. If you're used to the other switches then it being longer will just feel wrong to you and a lot of playing an instrument relies on the feel. It's not as extreme as if someone changed the scale length or neck profile on your guitar but it'll still feel wrong if it's not what you're expecting. I've only really played the one guitar so far and it's a les paul style guitar so it's not going to just feel like something is off to me.

Yeah that's a cap in the diagram. I probably should've labeled it for clarity.

I've seen on some threads that when upgrading the pots they had to enlarge the holes for the pots to fit. So I've been wondering about upgrading the pots and if they'll fit the existing holes in the control panel. Seems like it'd be a pain to deal with enlarging holes on the metal control panel. Are there mini pots from any of the go to companies like cts, bourns, gotoh, etc. that just fit in the existing holes? Or would I be better say getting a pair of gotoh pots and a gotoh control panel to avoid the hassle of enlarging the holes?

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I've seen on some threads that when upgrading the pots they had to enlarge the holes for the pots to fit.

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If you want to with 24mm pots, the control cavity will require widening. From memory, it's only about 1.5mm (.75mm each side)
but it wants to be done with at least some accuracy to avoid creating a visible gap at the edge of the control plate.

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Seems like it'd be a pain to deal with enlarging holes on the metal control panel.

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Or would I be better say getting a pair of gotoh pots and a gotoh control panel to avoid the hassle of enlarging the holes?

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FWIW, you would only need to enlarge the control plate holes if going to pots with Imperial size bushes (CTS, Bourns). Gotoh pots would have metric bushes, but again, if you want "full size" (24mm) pots, the cavity becomes the issue as mentioned above.

It's completely doable with a variable speed hand drill AND using good sharp drill bits! Dull dodgy drill bits will end badly with this job. This can also be done with a step drill.
Securely holding the plate whilst drilling is important. Don't just hold it down on a table/bench by hand. Whilst it can be done in situ, I prefer doing it off the guitar, but that's just me.

The biggest risk is lifting or chipping the nickel/chrome plating. Drill from the shiny side and don't drill the hole to the full desired diameter all at once. Start with the smallest bit needed and increase by .5mm increments.

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Are there mini pots from any of the go to companies like cts, bourns, gotoh, etc. that just fit in the existing holes?

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Yes, definitely CTS & Bourns, not sure about Gotoh. Contrary to popular belief, Alpha actually make decent pots for guitar (Taiwan). They also make crap ones like you'll get from Jaycar. You just need to look at the right suppliers to get them, like proper guitar parts supply stores.

edit: Just had a thought - I'm not sure the US mini pots bushes will fit a metric control plate hole. Probably close, but worth looking into.

2nd edit: A quick search revealed the CTS mini pots have 3/8" (9.5mm) bushing, same as the full size pots.

Looks like I’ll be getting the gotoh mini pots then. Seems like the easiest option to deal with. I think that’s pretty much all the questions I had about upgrading the electronics dealt with now. Should be able to order what I need and get everything together now. Gonna be a while before everything is assembled though.

I have Bourns minis on both of my Tele's and they needed control plate holes enlarged.

Best way I found was to run the drill in reverse and use the correct sized drill bit to match desired hole diameter. Running in reverse prevents drill bit from biting and wanting to rotate the job or causing other sorts of damage.

Also done the 4 way switch mod and that require a bit of depth taken out of control cavity floor. 4 way does same as standard 3 way but adds both in series (humbucker mode) in last position. Sonds great when it works but both of mine only working on 2 positions and need to find time to diagnose and rectify the fault.

Tele control plates with full-sized holes aren't expensive if you do want to use full-sized pots.

I have found control plate holes easy to open with these. Attachment 33769

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