My first build: DTL-1

Hi all!

I've just ordered the kit for my first-ever guitar build, a DTL-1. Planning on a natural wood finish, something like this beauty. Space already reserved on the guitar wall...

Attachment 33330

I do have a few questions, though -- any guidance would be much appreciated!

What tools will I need to get the job done? I have the normal set of DIY stuff, plus a Dremel, hex keys, soldering kit, small files, and some veneering stuff for some custom computer cases I've made in the past.

I've watched a fair few YouTube videos (always dangerous), and it does seem that spending time getting the neck and the fretboard just right is worth the effort. So on that basis it sounds like it might be a good plan to get:

• A notched straight edge
• A fret rocker
• Something for filing down the frets (or would regular wet and dry on a sanding block do the job just as well given that I'm not planning to take this up professionally ;-)

Is there anything I'm missing? Or, on the other hand, am I going tool-crazy and planning to buy stuff I won't need?

Next question -- which grades of sandpaper would you recommend I get?

The last question is about the finish. I'm considering linseed oil to bring out the grain pattern out after sanding; would nitrocellulose work well on top of that (assuming it's boiled linseed and I give it a few weeks to fully cure first)?

Any thoughts much appreciated!

Ahah! Looks like I should have read more of these forums before posting the tool questions, it looks like that's all covered thoroughly. Sorry for taking up bandwidth on that :-)

No worries, the search function is a bit cumbersome, but it does pay off to look at others build diaries of your type of guitar. It gives you an idea of the problems you might run into and perhaps some inspiration too!

I tried to stay tool light too and gathered for my build:
Sanding paper (good quality, its def. worth it) <80-120-240-400-600-800-1200-2000>
Sanding block
Notched straight edge
Long and short ruler <300-600mm>
Fret file
Level with sandpaper applied for leveling frets
Drill
Soldering iron
coping saw (for headstock)

I guess that's it besides the finishings.

Regarding the finishing: I don't have experience with linseedoil, I have used Timbermate Ebony to bring out the flame and fill the grain. Don't sand before grain filling, this way you'll be able to get more into the grain and get a "better" result.

Have fun!

Thanks, Rolf! That's very useful; if I go with a toolset like yours then I just need to get the notched straight edge and the fret file -- I'm pretty sure I have the rest knocking around (though the coping saw is probably lurking somewhere in a box in the attic).

And many thanks for the advice about the forums -- I've now got a bunch of ideas to pick through for the finish. Really looking forward to getting the kit :-)

A notched straight edge is pretty easy and cheap to make yourself from a strip of aluminium.

Quote:

---

A notched straight edge is pretty easy and cheap to make yourself from a strip of aluminium.

---

Or a 36" steel rule. It needs to be cut shorter, but the edges are quite accurate as far as being square and flat.
They are a little flexible side to side, but still work fine.

You can cut 25.5" scale on one side and a 24.75" on the other.

A fret rocker isn't particularly important if you already plan to level and reprofile the frets. It's only purpose is to help determine if you have proud or low frets in the first place (and you can get a good idea about this with a standard steel rule). But they are cheap, and you can normally get them from Amazon or eBay as part of a set that contains a stainless steel fret profiling file, which is a far more important item if you want to level the frets. Though cheap, The profiling file does a pretty good job as long as the frets are quite tall. The profile cut-out is a bit too deep IMO, and with lower height frets, the two sides end up on the board whilst the top of the fret is clear of the cutting edge. But standard kit frets are tall enough for this without going for a more specialised diamond profiling file.

You'll still need to sand the frets smooth with sand paper, but then I'd also add to the list a set of Micromesh pads or papers, which are really good for polishing almost any item and take over in fine grits where wet and dry leaves off. Realy smooth frets make so much of a difference to the feel of a neck.

I used to use straight edge files for levelling frets but have found recently that I've got far better results using a radius block with P240 paper stuck on with double sided tape. You'll need a block that suits the radius of the board, but all the kit necks have a 12" radius (as do Gibson guitars), so that's the one to go for first.

The nut is an item that can really make a difference to the playability of a guitar. Which ideally means nut files, as the default nut slot height is always far too high (unless you want action suitable for playing slide guitar). Unfortunately these files are expensive. A great investment if you have several guitars or plan on making more kits, but for one guitar it is a bit OTT.

One alternative is to remove the nut and file the bottom of the nut down until the slots are low enough. The other is to get the nut slots cut professionally.

DarkMark, McCreed -- thanks! I assume you're talking about just getting out the Dremel and grinding/cutting out the notches? Sounds pretty doable, but OTOH it looks like I can pick up a ready-made one for about a tenner so it might not be worth the effort? -- eg. this one on eBay.

Simon -- also many thanks for the advice! Sounds like I should spend some time on eBay and see what I can find -- perhaps just search for general luthiery kits plus a 12" radius sanding block and then post back here what I've found (both in case anyone wants to offer advice, and for historical reasons in case anyone else in the UK is looking for them in the future).

I've gone with the bone nut upgrade for the kit -- from what I've read, it sounds like it's also likely to be a tad high, and so it will need to be adjusted to get it to the right height, like you say. I remember watching a Crimson Guitars video where Ben used a neat trick -- I forget exactly what, but I'm sure I'll be able to find it again -- to draw a line on the nut that was the same height as the first fret (after levelling, I assume). Then IIRC he filed the slots in the nut down to that height. Perhaps I could do something similar, but instead I would draw the line, and then use the distance from there to the bottom of the slots as an indication of how much to take off the bottom of the nut. Obviously it would be the kind of thing where I'd do a bit, put it in place and check (and perhaps re-draw the line), then repeat, rather than trying to do it all in one go -- but it sounds like it might work. In my head, anyway...

BTW I see you're in Reading -- I grew up just down the road in Peppard. Small world!

It is a small world, though I actually grew up in Woking. Worked in Reading and commuted from Woking, then when I moved to Reading I worked in London.

Quote:

---

...OTOH it looks like I can pick up a ready-made one for about a tenner so it might not be worth the effort? -- eg. this one on eBay.

---

That's a good price, and less effort! I say spend the doe.
Once you acquire these tools, you'll be amazed how much you will use them. IMO, tools are always a good investment.

Thanks to everyone for the help!

So I've put together a combined list based on the PBG instructions and the advice in this thread so far:

• File or fine rasp
• Sandpaper <80-120-240-400-600-800-1200-2000>
• Steel wool (0000 grade)
• Coping saw
• Electric Drill
• Drill bits, 1mm, 1.5mm, 2mm, and 3mm
• G Clamps
• Screw drivers, both Phillips (sizes small 0 med 1 and large 2) and flat head
• Long straightedges (600mm and 300mm rules) and tape measure
• Soldering iron
• Electronic solder
• Clean rags
• Pencil
• Eye protection
• Flat sanding block
• Notched straight edge
• Fret file or profiling tool
• Level to tape sandpaper to for leveling frets, or alternatively a 12" radius sanding block
• Something for polishing frets eg. micromesh

If I can get them cheaply (or "free" as part of a kit that contains necessary stuff, it might be worth getting a fret rocker or nut files.

Lots of standard DIY stuff there, so it's over to eBay for the rest...

So I won't list the bog-standard stuff that I'm buying because I'm sure no-one needs to know where I'm buying sandpaper :-)

But here are some of the more guitar-specific things I've found, linked to in case anyone else in the UK finds them useful:

• A notched straight edge, able to handle all normal scales.
• A 12" radius sanding block
• A fret polishing kit with appropriate sandpaper, micromesh and so on for using after shaping the frets.

Shaping/crowning the frets has turned out to be a deeper topic than I realised -- Simon Barden hinted at this in his post on the previous page, and I found that this video from StewMac clarified a few things for me nicely (though their summary that the best tool is their one that costs over US$100 made me whimper a bit). Anyway, what I've written below is how I understand things from that video and from reading around a bit, but if any experts want to correct me I'd be very glad to know what I've got wrong! (In particular I bet there's some terminology I'm missing...)

The regulars on this forum won't need reminding of this, but for fellow newbies: there are two main kinds of tools for shaping frets. The goal is to make a rounded shape in cross-section so that there's a nice clear point in the middle of the fret where the string is in contact. so that you get good intonation -- the string should be stopped right in the middle of the fret wire.

One kind of tool is basically a normal flat file (or sometimes a tool with a triangular cross-section, with files on each side) and you file across the fret. The other is some kind of tool with a notch in it, the notch being designed to have the right cross-section for a fret to have, and abrasive on its sides; you fit it over the fret and move it back and forth a few times.

The advantage of the flat file is that you have complete control over the shape of the frets so you can shape them nicely. The disadvantage is that you have complete control over the shape of the frets, which if you're a beginner sounds like it could go horribly wrong.

The advantage of the notched tools is that the shape is "dialed in" -- you just rub it over the fret and it shapes it to the shape of the notch, which is already a sensible shape. The disadvantage, which (if I'm understanding him correctly) Simon was talking about in his previous post, is that if the fret wire is too flat -- that is, not very proud from the fretboard -- then the notch will be too deep, and you won't be shaping the fret properly -- nothing will be abrading the top. So you need to get the right size for your frets.

Here are some examples that I've found:

• A flat file that comes with a fret rocker and a few other bits and bobs
• A three-edged file, with blunt edges to avoid damaging the fretboard when you use it.
• A notched file -- note that it comes in three different sizes, which I think must be for different sizes of fret wire (any experts want to chime in?)
• A fancier notched file -- also available in different sizes, and the seller also has a different tool where you can fit files with different kinds of notches.

TBH I'm unsure what kind to get. I must admit that I'm very tempted by the last one -- not only does it come with the sandpaper and protector, but also I'm a complete sucker for the whole "artisanally made in our workshop from English oak" thing ;-) But then I'd need to get the right size -- are the PBG fret wires 2, 2.5 or 3mm?

Oh, and one more question -- is it worth getting nut files like these? Simon said earlier that good nut files are a sensible investment if you're planning of making multiple guitars, which makes me think that good ones are expensive. The fact that these cost GBP3.69 for a set of 13 makes me think that either they're crap that's not worth wasting money on, or that they're a completely different kind of tool and I've got confused...

For the PBG kits, the 2.5mm notched fret file is perfect. In fact it 2.5mm will be fine for almost all guitars unless they have vintage frets (where 2mm is better) or extra wide frets (where 3mm is better). I have a 2.5mm one of the fancy notched files and a set of the other files but with a proper handle https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fret-Crow....c100008.m2219

There really isn't any difference between them in term of operation or effectiveness.

But for the slightly wider frets, and any stainless steel ones, I find I use this file first https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and then finish off with the slightly finer diamond files. despite being diamond, they don't work well on stainless frets, whilst that Amazon file makes them only about 2x the effort of normal steel frets, not 10x.

I'm going to get one of the triangular files as well.

P240 grit Wet and Dry is my most used paper for polishing the frets. Sanding the frets level leaves lots of cross-fret scratches. Unless these are removed, the frets will feel terrible and very 'scratchy'. You can drag an off-cut from a top E across each fret. If the scratches haven't gone you'll feel it catch. Once it doesn't, you can then move up the grits and then onto the Micromesh. I try and use the same number of sanding strokes per fret, in order to keep the fret heights the same. So maybe 50-100 of the P240 depending on how deep the scratches were (using a diamond levelling file leaves deeper scratches than P240 on a radius block), then 20 strokes of the other grits.

Thanks, Simon! I think I'll go for the fancy-looking notched file in 2.5mm, then.

I'd love to hear what you think of the nut files I linked in my second post, BTW.

[edit] third post, I mean -- the one immediately before yours.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gpjt

If I can get them cheaply (or "free" as part of a kit that contains necessary stuff, it might be worth getting a fret rocker or nut files.

---

Unless you insist on spending for gear, otherwise...

These do the job just as well (I keep all 3 in a plastic bag)
Attachment 33379

cheers, Mark.

Those 'nut' files are apparently just repurposed welding gear cleaning rods. You'd really need to double check the sizes with digital calipers (something else for the list if you haven't got any as I now use mine for millions of things). They won't last long - well, the thin ones won't - but they are better than nothing and may do a couple of nuts. They are also not quite the right size for some strings.

0.3 = 0.012"
0.4 = 0.016"
0.5 =0.020"
0.6 = 0.024"
0.7 = 0.028"
0.8 = 0.031"
0.9 = 0.035"
1.0 = 0.039"
1.1 = 0.043"
1.2 = 0.047"
1.4 = 0.055"

I've rounded the figures to 3 decimal places and there will undoubtedly some variation in the actual size of the product. So some slots will be a bit bigger than ideal, and some slots will be slightly narrower than wanted unless you sand the slot wider or step up a file size. But even a pro nut file set is often a bit of a compromise dependent on your chosen string gauge.

A small excess of slot width doesn't matter. What you really don't want is the slot too small, so that the string sticks in it. You also don't want the slot to be too wide, so that it can vibrate from side to side and buzz. So the same width slot as the string size or just slightly larger is ideal.

If you went for a set of 0.009"s, then the top E slot would be 0.012" wide, which as a percentage is significantly wider than the string. And you'd use the same file for the B string, which would be just right. But change to .0010"s and the top E slot would be closer, whilst a 0.013" B would either be in a wide 0.016" slot, or you'd have to try and widen a 0.012" slot with sandpaper (being careful not to deepen it at the same time).

So you make more work for yourself, but you offset that fact by the fact they are very cheap.

I'm really surprised that you can't get a cheap set of proper nut files these days. Maybe not the demand for them based on the price of current sets, but if they were £10-£15, then I'm sure a lot of guitarists would get them (and there are a lot of guitarists).

Well you've certainly generated a comprehensive list of tools there! And obviously been doing you homework too!

Here's my comments on some of the tools:
Level/levelling bar/radiused sanding block -
I think it was a good choice going with the radiused sanding block for your first job. However I also think that you will eventually you will graduate to a levelling bar, presuming you continue on this DIY journey.
If you get to that point, I recommend a proper levelling bar vs a spirit level. a good levelling bar is about 500% heavier than an aluminium spirit level so the weight of the bar does [most of] the work, not downward pressure from your arm.

D'oh! Simon beat me to it on this one!

Nut file set shown - Those are actually tip cleaners for welding torches being sold as "nut files". Whilst I've never used then, I'm still inclined to get purpose-made nut files. I posted a link to set in another thread recently which I will try to find again. I think they were under 100GBP with shipping from Japan.

edit to add:
I've cut & pasted my previous post re: nut files -

Quote:

---

I use Uo-Chikyu (Hiroshima)(Made In Japan) and they're excellent. You can get a .010" to .046" set for 70 USD (approx 54GBP). That is without shipping & VAT, but I'd bet it still falls well below 120GBP.

Uo-Chikyu by Hiroshima Nut Files

With a 10-46 set you can comfortably do nuts to suit up to a .052 gauge set of strings (after learning proper technique).

Even if this TL kit is the only one you ever build, presumably you have other guitars, and with owning your own nut files, you can greatly improve their playability with proper nut action. Most factory nut set-ups are done on the conservative side to minimise possible buzz issues, not necessarily optimum playability.

Just my 2 cents. (that's 1.1 cents in GBP )

---

I think that a radius block is better than a levelling bar, as you can't guarantee with a levelling bar that you are taking the same amount off the frets all over their length(or should that be width?). I re-did a board that I'd previously done with a levelling file, and found that the sides of the frets were a lot lower than the middle. This was down to the person who had originally replaced the frets on this neck, but the result was that the frets had the wrong radius for the board.

Enjoy the experience mate, and DONT RUSH IT!

Hi there, if it helps I have been looking at frets and asked similar Q's to you but not so comprehensively.
These are the cheapest Hosco but files I have found in the UK.
https://www.gluedtomusic.com/product...ic-guitar-set/

Have a read through my build log which may help you.
The boys answering your Q's are very knowledgeable, helpful and friendly !
Cheers, FB (ex Reading resident also).

Those Hosco files are quite good for acoustics, but with the smallest file at 0.016", are really too big for electrics unless you are using really heavy strings and down-tuning (or have a baritone neck).

Thanks again for the advice, everyone! I hope that this build goes well, but if it doesn't there will only be my own ham-fistedness to blame :-)

I wound up getting the 2.5mm version of the crowning file that Simon linked -- it's from the same maker as the one I found, and the extra GBP3 sounds like a worthwhile investment given that it can have the other size files added if necessary later on if I find myself doing a build with a different fret size.

Thanks also for the thoughts on those "nut files", Simon and McCreed -- I suspected they might be too cheap to be the real thing. I think I'll just try sanding the bottom of the bone nut to get it to the right height -- if the worst comes to the worst and I take too much off, a replacement is easy enough to get.

It's obvious now, but I'd never really considered the fact that different string widths need different nut slots. Possibly I will want to get some proper files in the future -- the G on my LPJ sticks a little, and while a quick pull on the string when downtuning or a tap between the nut and the headtuner when tuning upwards is enough to work around it, there clearly is a bit of an issue there (though maybe just a tad more pencil lead next string change is all that's needed). Also, Japanese-made precision files (thanks, McCreed!) trigger my Tool Acquisition Syndrome even more than it's already been set off by the other bits. Just a small matter of negotiating more tool space from the other half...

Anyway, all other tools also bought and on their way. The kit itself is apparently in customs in the UK, so waiting for the card from the delivery company telling me how much I need to pay in import duty...

Also probably time to start thinking seriously about the finish...

Quote:

---

I think that a radius block is better than a levelling bar, as you can't guarantee with a levelling bar that you are taking the same amount off the frets all over their length(or should that be width?).

---

Fair enough. To each his own etc.
I find I have more control with an 8" levelling bar (not a file btw).
What I find with radius blocks is that you can end up taking more off of the frets than is really necessary (especially on the ends).

IMO this can lead to premature replacement. What I mean is you might only get 2 full levels out the lifespan of the frets, where otherwise you might get 3 before having pull & replace.

Also, fretboards are rarely a perfect 9.5", 12" or whatever, so using a bar can compensate for those little imperfections.
Then there's compound radius necks...

I'm not saying definitively that one is better than the other, just that my preference is the bar.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Simon Barden

Those Hosco files are quite good for acoustics, but with the smallest file at 0.016", are really too big for electrics unless you are using really heavy strings and down-tuning (or have a baritone neck).

---

Aargh !
Simon, yes you are correct.
Meant to link these, same price but leccy guitar set.
https://www.gluedtomusic.com/product...ic-guitar-set/

I've not used those files, but I think they cut a more "V" shaped slot as opposed to a perpendicular one like edge-cut files do.

Like everything, it's personal preference. There are arguments for and against V'ed slots vs straight and I'm not going to open a debate on it, but it's worth pointing out so you can make your own decision. (after you've done your head in with exhaustive interweb research ;))

All the action (see what I did there) happens at the bottom of the slot. Certainly once you get above the height of the string, it doesn't matter what width the rest of the slot is. But a V-shaped notch won't offer quite as much resistance to sideways string bends as a straight-sided notch. Obviously, the shallower the 'V', the less resistance there will be.

There is a strong argument for filing down the top of the nut so that the depth of the nut slots is minimal. I've seen just half the string height given as optimal, but to me, it's too easy to push the string out of the slot when bending near the nut. So I opt for the full string height, or just over. Leaving the nut high with deep nut slots means that the two ends of the nut are vulnerable to breaking off if you catch them (I've done this so I know). The two end slots only have half the width (or less) of nut material on the outside compared to in-between the other string slots, so are already comparatively weaker. If this end bit of nut is 3mm high (above the bottom of the slot) compared to say 1mm high, then you'll get 3x the leverage force on the material at the base of the slot if you catch it or knock it, making it far more likely for the end to snap off.

Filing the top of the nut down will also mean that cosmetically, the difference between straight and V slots will be minimal.

Quote:

---

There is a strong argument for filing down the top of the nut so that the depth of the nut slots is minimal.

Filing the top of the nut down will also mean that cosmetically, the difference between straight and V slots will be minimal.

---

I agree with Simon on filing the top of the nut, but have a slightly different approach.

I file and shape the top of the nut so the E-A-D strings are about 80-90% down in the nut slots, the G is JUST a bee's dick above the nut, and the top of the B-E strings are just even with the top of the nut.

Two alternative nut flie strategies are -

1) use feeler gauges that you have files notches into down one edge (this idea comes from Will Kelly or Hard Knock guitars). I find this works best for the thinner strings. If you use imperial feelers gauges rather than metric it is easy to work out what size you need for each groove. I tend to use one gauge up, eg a .010 gauge for a .009 e string etc.

2) glue pieces of old wound strings to pieces of dowel and use these a nut files for the wound strings (this idea courtesy of the Dan Erlewine himself)

It has arrived :-) The package turned up at my office today, will open when I get it home. Two weeks from order to receipt, of which most of the time was waiting in customs. Not at all bad for a big package from Australia to the UK!

Attachment 33543

OK! So get buildin'!!!
:)

Even though it's a bolt-on neck, I'd still wait a week before doing any serious work on it to let the wood settle down. It's come from a very hot climate to a cold one via airfreight, and that can mess with the wood quite a bit.

I got four boxes delivered today.

Attachment 33549

However they aren't as exciting as they first look. Just two bass cases and two guitar cases for my guitars without them. Thomann do the cheapest good quality ABS cases that I could find, so it was import from Germany time. Except that I miscounted and I still need two hard electric guitar cases and probably a padded gig bag for a classical. So I'll get those next month.

Not much time this evening, but I was able to unbox it and try a very rough dry fit:

Attachment 33547

Lovely grain pattern on the body, and while the neck is less heavily figured, I suspect it'll come up nicely with a bit of oil.

Attachment 33548

It came with some decent Ernie Ball strings, and what look like some not-so-great ones, so the latter will be helpful for setup.

Attachment 33550

The way the flat part of the fret wire is visible here looks a little ugly, I think because it's so similar to the colour of the wood -- the same effect on the black fretboard of my LPJ looks fine. Probably won't be a problem when I've oiled the fretboard.

The neck is lovely and straight -- no curve visible at all when I use the notched straight edge, which actually kind of surprised me. Presumably it will bow inwards slightly when under tension, but I can sort that out then.

As I'm not planning on any customisations for this guitar, I'm planning to put it together, put on the cheap strings, and give it a play before disassembling it all again in order to sand and finish it properly. That means that if (for example) the tuners are rubbish, I can get new ones before the final assembly.

Is that going to cause me any problems down the line?

Looks like some posts crossed in the, erm, post there :-)

Good point about letting it adjust to the local climate, Simon. The holes for the neck (which I should say appears to fit perfectly!) are pre-drilled, so I'm thinking that bolting it on this weekend should be OK, so long as I leave fret dressing and finishing for -- say -- the week after next?

Sorry to keep spamming the forums with questions, but I've come up with another one... I'm planning to use Wudtone to finish the guitar; probably their honey on the body and their maple neck specific aged vintage yellow on the neck. If I understand correctly, I just put the neck finishing oil over the fretboard as well as the back of the neck -- is that right?

Quote:

---

The way the flat part of the fret wire is visible here looks a little ugly...

---

Yes, the colour matching is not the greatest I've seen, however, I think (not real clear in the pic) that a lot of it is excess filler on either side of the fret slot on top of the neck wood.
Once you hit it with some light sanding, only the fret slot should have the filler left in it and will be way less noticeable.

Regarding fret dressing:
With a maple/maple neck, I would recommend not doing any fret levelling until you have got your finish on there.
When you apply your finish, it will be going right over the frets and will need to be removed. Best to do the finish removal and levelling/dressing at the same time. Otherwise, you may risk scratching a newly levelled & polished fret when cleaning off the finish.

See my last post.

Looks like we're on a similar schedule despite opposite sides of the equator!

Thanks! Yup, I'm kind of a night owl -- I suspect that most of this build will be happening in the small hours...

Thinking about the headstock. Here's the shape I'm planning -- a fairly classic T-style, I think:

Attachment 33562

I do keep my guitars hanging on the wall, so I'm a little uncertain about the "flat" treble side, but the Hercules hangers I've got do swivel, and the Internet tells me that should make it all fine. And who am I to doubt the wisdom of the Internet :D

I've decided to upgrade the tuners; just bought a set of Hipshot open locking tuners in nickle, which basically adds 50% to the cost of the guitar... but should look nice.

Unfortunately the headstock already has guide holes drilled for the screws for the stock tuners, and they're offset to the treble side of the holes for the tuners:

Attachment 33563

So I'll have to work out some way to fill them that won't be too obvious. Once I've cut the excess from the headstock, there will be a good amount of matching maple to use, so perhaps I can use some of that as plugs, then fill any gaps around the edge with sanding dust and glue. Not sure what glue to use if I don't want to stop the finish from adhering, but if the worst comes to the worst, the tuners come with a mounting plate that could be used to hide a multitude of sins...