Okay, thanks! Smart! I will steal this method :)
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Okay, thanks! Smart! I will steal this method :)
Well today has been a mixture of progress and complete PITA.
Having tidied up the finish from yesterday I pulled it all together, and initially it looked ok:
https://i.imgur.com/7F81yl9.jpeg
But then I noticed a little mark between the bridge and the pick-up. "No worries," I thought, "I'll just give a quick polish." And, it turns out, go straight through the bloody finish. :(
https://i.imgur.com/t44Xpfk.jpeg
So I've sanded it back a bit and now trying to rebuild it to sand smooth again.
Cracking on, because I'm now just sick of this build, I took it inside for the soldering and realised I wasn't quite sure how to proceed.
Simon B kindly found me this wiring diagram a while back: https://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-co...pot%202017.pdf
So I've soldered the basics on the pots, output and bridge cable and checked connectivity, but I'm looking at the wires from the pick-up and not sure how to combine these?
https://i.imgur.com/SypeU4m.jpeg
Unfortunately that's a rather naff photo but each pickup has a red and white wire twisted together, a single black wire, then a green wire and an unshielded wire twisted together.
I'm guessing I need to solder the green and unshielded and the black to the ground and then the red and white to the middle tab on the pot?
Oh yes, and because I haven't ballsed things up enough I manage to spat hot solder onto the front.
https://i.imgur.com/jvhWsFo.jpeg
it appears to have melted itself into the finish and I have no flippin' idea how I'm going to deal with that.
Red and white aren't connected unless you want a coil tap, so ideally heatshrink the end or wrap it in insulating tape. Black = signal hot and goes to the pot middle tab, bare and green are ground and go to the back of a pot. As the bare wire is wrapped around the green, and so exposed along its length, best to heatshrink or tape up most of it to stop it touching a signal wire or connection.
You'll probably find that the solder will fall off after a while. I've done that before and it seems to stick at first, but releases itself after a while, probably leaving just the barest mark that only needs a polish to remove. Otherwise still wait a few hours, and then use a small sharp blade to prise it off, something like a scalpel.
Thank you and thank you.
Don't give up on this build. Well all have issues with each build...and sometimes something that you hate but can't fix or work around appears. I can think of something on nearly all of mine. We always mark ourselves the hardest.Quote:
Originally Posted by blinddrew
Trim your work expectation for each day. Sometimes we try to get too much done in each session.....and you can't hurry this stuff unless you have industrial dryers/heaters, spray tools etc.
You however can do two things at once.....sanding and pore-fill the body....then let it hang....and at the same time solder up the wiring harness.
I always make my harness external to the guitar...usually using a piece of cardboard that I have either held over the body and pushed holes into.....or measured and orientated the holes to roughly meet those on the body.
Then when ready to attach jack socket and pickups....I lay a number of rags around the surface of the guitar.
I clear clutter between the soldering iron rest and the work space...and anything that could catch the soldering iron lead from machine to the hot tip.
Since I did exactly the same and dropped hot lead onto a surface, I have used these two processes and have had no issue since.
Use at least two layers of rag or cloth if using microfibre or synthetic cloths. I use the bum and legs of a cut up old pair of jeans. No tears but....just the seams cut.
Also each time you solder clean the tip before you bring it over to the work space.....and repeat the process as you put the iron back on the rest. Less chance of excess solder on the tip and this dropping off.
Picked the guitar up this evening to finish the soldering and felt a slight sucking as it came off the stand.
Thought this kind of thing only happened with nitro finishes:
https://i.imgur.com/jCaOGjc.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/xadmNRN.jpeg
And to cap it all I'm getting no signal at all.
Ho hum.
Whoa, that sucks. I've not encountered that with poly.
What kind of stand do you have, and what kind of rubber are the pads made out of?
How long did the clear coat set before wet sanding?
Sorry for all the questions. Just trying to understand what might have happened.
ADD:
I'm sure the finish and wiring issues are both an easy fix. Just unfortunate and frustrating.
Any photos of the wiring?
Ho no hum surely?
I thought it, but wasn't going to say it...:oQuote:
Originally Posted by Simon Barden
I have no self-restraint in matters like these.
As you may have guessed by now!
Soon as you drive them out of the showroom.
cheers, Mark.
I took some photos of the electrics in situ but I don't think they're clear enough for diagnostics.
My first thought, based on your previous control cavity photo, would be possibly a solder lug (or something else) shorting against the shielding. Sometimes it's the simplest reason for a fault like this.Quote:
I took some photos of the electrics in situ but I don't think they're clear enough for diagnostics.
The stand is a pretty generic Fender one, had it for years, no idea what kind of rubber it is though. Clear coat had about 3 weeks curing time since the last coat.Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
Ok a few wiring pics. First pic is trying to capture everything in one shot whilst still showing all the connections, then we go from front to back looking at each pot and then the output jack:
https://i.imgur.com/2J7CsT6.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/kFaf4go.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/oFzwx01.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/G4hoLIL.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/gQxmNQS.jpeg
And we have a winner! Just tested it outside the cavity with the old screwdriver trick and getting thumps from both pickups.Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
Thank you
[EDIT] But if anyone spots anything else wrong, please shout! :)
You have had some real challenges with this build with Murphy working to frustrate you at every turn but you have persevered and are nearly there. Great work!
The finish post is in sight!
Cheers
Ricky
Yeah, I'm probably going to have to learn how to play bass just to justify it! ;)
Well, the electrics are (I think) sorted and I've managed to pop out the blob of solder, so it's back out to the garage to fix that, the gap between the pick-up and bridge and then these new marks.
Think next time I might just go back to Tru-oil...
Before going back to Tru-Oil, think of what you have learned about poly (ie. Make sure it is not water based next time!).
I may be old fashioned but I have never had a good experience with water based finishes - even household gloss and satin paints.
The finish is just not as good as oil based paints IMHO!
Although, having said that, you have got a good shine on yours!
Cheers
Ricky
Glad you got it working!
Just a curious question re: the heat-shrinked wires. I presume the red heat shrink are the green & bare wires and the black heat shrink are the white & red?
My brain always goes "black - ground, red - hot" even when a HB positive lead is black. I understand your logic though.
Ricky, yes, I think the water-based poly was the beginning of the downhill on this one! I'm now a bit concerned that the finish is going to react with my other guitar rack (where this will live) but I have only one way of finding out!
McCreed, yep, your assumption is correct but the colouring was driven by what heatshrink I had available in appropriate sizes rather than any particular logic. :)
So, as I can't currently put it on a rack, I left it lying on its back last night on a cotton t-shirt, as I have many times so far in this build. The same T-shirt that has proven an effective bed even when applying a fair bit of sand-and-polish pressure to the front.
And as I lifted it up this morning, up came the t-shirt as well.
Head. Desk. Interface.
https://i.imgur.com/0xk4DHE.jpg
I don't know if it's the heat or what but I think I'm just going to pop the neck off again and leave it hanging for a month.
I can build up the solder divot and the polish through, and the stand marks, in the meantime but I'm not going to let it touch ANYTHING until the end of September!
Even though I have very little experience compared to all of you guys, I can only second the comment about water based finishes (poly, varnish, lacquer...) - tried it, not good.
But my experiences with oil based poly were very good. I started with Rustin's polyurethan varnish (which is great but too amber for my taste), I am now happy with MinWax fast drying polyurethan. This stuff is easy to work with (just thin and wipe on), dries fast and very durable. I think Tru Oil itself is boiled linseed oil with a good shot of poly mixed in.
Edit: A SHIRT shouldn't be a problem to cured poly! How come it doesn't feel sticky if it is still that soft? No wonder you polished through, that's not poor technique, that's poor poly. What kind of poly was this, if I'm allowed to ask?
Just wondering, because water based poly's do dry much faster than oil based poly's, and with the current weather, I can wipe on a coat and it dries in front of my eyes so I can touch it 10 minutes later... Can't imagine this happen to poly that's older than an hour..?
I'm sure you posted this info earlier, but I didn't know you were using water based poly.
My question is: did you use actual "wipe-on" water based poly or a water based poly that you thinned (presumably with water) to wipe on?
I only ask because with the latter, TTBOMK they don't recommend thinning, and if you do, it shouldn't be thinned more than 10%.
Just for the record I used a few coats of water based wipe on poly for the travel guitar. Goodness knows how old it was as it was already in the house I moved into. It turned out quite acceptable with no issues. Having said that I would use oil based poly every time.... I only used the water based poly as it was the thrifty option and I hadn’t invested much in the guitar emotionally or financially. Oil based feels better to me.
Hopefully it cures nice and hard 😬
The water-based stuff was thinned but only about 10% (probably a bit less actually).
I have pretty much concluded, at this point, that Loki is taking a vacation in York...
Well, Tom Hiddleston may be staying local to you for a holiday as he can't easily go abroad.
His influence is still being felt. Went through the whole process again on the patch between the bridge and pick-up. Unfortunately that process also included tearing a huge strip out on the first pass with the polish.
Think I'm basically down to two options now: finish putting it together and just live with it, or remove the whole top-coat on the front and start again.
As frustrating as it may be, I think the option of refinishing will leave you feeling better with the project in the end.
With my most recent finish debacle, my attitude turned around immediately once I made the decision to redo and got the new primer on.
Was hoping to spray the new base coat tomorrow, but I think Mother Nature may conspire against me. Will see what morning brings...
You could always put the body in the post to me and I can swear at it instead.
Maybe you should ask the audience what to do. Do a poll perhaps?
I vote sanding it down and refinishing it again. But not with water based poly. Anyone else?
I've had one final go at fixing it and will now leave it hanging for a month before touching it with anything.
Right, I'm calling it done for now:
https://i.imgur.com/kAq2QRW.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/cbGkZhv.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/TKBKYG8.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/Pi1brFI.jpeg
But here's the 'honesty' shot:
https://i.imgur.com/pRxEn81.jpeg
I'm sure I could probably sand and polish a bit more, but frankly I'm scared of polishing through the finish completely and ballsing it up again.
And a quick audio demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ4UUuq4buM
There's some noise coming from somewhere, tomorrow I'll have a look to see if it's the amp or the guitar.
Some perseverance has gone into this build. I was actually in agreement with Stuart D in starting over...I just didn’t want to say it. That water based poly sure has a different feel about it, not necessarily unpleasant. All’s well that ends well. Good looking colour contrast. How does it sound? Look forward to seeing/hearing it in action.
Will do a better demo once I've figured out where the noise is coming from.
Congratulations on crossing the finish line! (puns intended :p)
However, it's good you used the phrase "done for now". I've done very little new building of late, but have "re-visited" at least two previous builds just recently. It just happens...
I've got another thing built, it's a kit guitar with an amplifier built in, but I never did the finishing on it. So when I redo that I'll redo the top finish on this at the same time I reckon and get it nice and flat.
A bit of distance from any build is usually a good thing, but more so if it has been a problematic one.
How do I know this??? Been there, done that!
Love the colour scheme. Looks great.