I can't think straight unless my workspace is cluttered. Everyone I've ever lived with has hated it, but I dunno, it just worksQuote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Mountain
I can't think straight unless my workspace is cluttered. Everyone I've ever lived with has hated it, but I dunno, it just worksQuote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Mountain
It's the opposite for me. When working, I get only the tools I need from the toolbox, and put them all back when finished. I can't think straight unless I know that everything is in it's correct place. The job ain't done until it's all packed away!Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnH
It's interesting how everyone works differently. I have to say though, when I was managing the studio at Megalo I wanted everything spotless and tidy, but it's different because it's communal, so everyone has to be able to access tools and facilities. At home I just kind of know where I left stuff, and the piles of junk somehow get my creativity goingQuote:
Originally Posted by jugglindan
It's getting a little gloss now.
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After the front had a week of rest, I saw that some spots in the veneer sunk in. Hm. Not sure if I want to spend another week filling and sanding the dips, so they will probably stay that way.
I'm the same when I'm building I usually have 2-3 kits on the go, I have stuff everywhere, my missus always cleans up and I can never find anything anymore, she a real nuisance I have short term memory loss which pretty bad smacked my head into the windscreen at 90ks lol I can go get something in another room and forget why I went in there for 🤯Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnH
This happens to me without a major head injury.Quote:
Originally Posted by phrozin
Yep, same here.
It's about crossing the threshold into another space (room).Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Mountain
I learned it from watching Q.I.
cheers, Mark
Yep, and the weird thing is that if you walk back to the room where you first thought of something you have a good chance of remembering again.Quote:
Originally Posted by king casey
Still not done here. I noticed one spot on the rim of the veneer expands and sinks in when the weather changes. When it's wet, it's swollen, when it's dry, it's a dip. As I wasn't sure how to fix this, I started to fill it up a bit more with tru oil and make sure the edge is sealed so it doesn't take in any moisture. However, the tru oil isn't inclined to properly harden there. I don't know why, but it stays soft and jelly like, even after days. So sanding it flat is a no no right now.
I found an old book about restoring wood furniture which explains a method of filling the grain with shellac and pumice powder. So that is exactly what I'm trying to do now, except I'm using tru oil instead of shellac. Will report back how it turns out.
So yeah, after almost 2 months to the day, I put it together yesterday. I had a lot of trouble with the tru oil in one specific part of the guitar, where tiny spots would break out again when gently sanding or even when accidentally scraping it lightly with my finger nail. I got around it by filling these spots with super glue and then adding tru oil on top. I think the tru oil didn't like the glue that was used to fix a broken spot in the veneer, but as it was done by the factory, I have no idea what glue that is...
I also noticed that spot "lives" and changes with humidity. Funny, but in the end I decided not to make this particular spot perfectly level to avoid any more break outs. You can see it in the first picture, the reflection highlights the spots. They are mostly concealed by the pickguard anyway.
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So, what can I say? I learned a lot with this (first) build. Is it worth the money, especially since I paid less than 100 Euros? Absolutely! Besides some dodgy Chinese filler on the bottom and the spot in the veneer that doesn't like tru oil too much, the quality is really nice.
But who builds a first guitar kit without any problems? Nobody! So here is the problem that I still need to solve:
I bought a TusQ Telecaster nut and shimmed it to what I thought would be a good height.. But it's not. It's too low on the higher strings. So I have really bad fret buzz on the first fret low E (but only there). I'm not sure if I either didn't level that fret well enough or if the nut is really too low. Will check after a few weeks of settling in. In retrospective, I should have shimmed it a little higher and then deepen the string slots if too high. Now, I probably have to remove the nut again with the potential of destroying it or damaging the neck.
You can see it in this picture:
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The wiring was pretty much already done by the factory, you just have to wire the pickups to the switch and then solder on the jack. Oh and I didn't drill a hole for the bridge ground, I soldered the cable to a bit of copper tape and stuck it right under the bridge so it was still in the cavity. Checked for continuity with a multimeter.
Talking about the bridge, there is not much wiggle room for intonation left. They could have routed the cavity one centimeter closer to the neck, that would have been perfect. I still got it right but it's at the end of the screw.
I'm actually a bit proud how the neck turned out, the combination of tru oil and wood wax has made it incredibly smooth and beautiful to touch... I really LOVE how it feels. But here is the bad news: It's a freaking baseball bat. No, really... I mean it!
I never had a Telecaster before (and also never played one before) and after recovering from the shock how it sounds (LOL), I realized I can't comfortably play it with my small hands. Bummer :(
I'll try getting used to it, but I had pain in my hand from only 30 minutes yesterday, when I can play 4 hours straight with my "standard" Ibanez.... So it's probably more a "man's guitar", or more political correct: You sure do need some big hands for that thing.
Oh, and 2 small and a half medium bottle of tru oil went into this thing... If you ever plan to build a burl veneer top guitar - for the love of small puppies, use a grain filler before tru oiling it! You will thank me later! ;)
Nice job.
Not all Telecaster necks are tree trunks, and I don't doubt it would be possible to carve some of that neck away. How much is safe, though, I have no idea how to find out.
There are, I think, less drastic solutions than complete replacement for the nut, but let's have someone who's actually done it explain...
Bridge too far from neck is definitely preferable to bridge too close, and you could always source some longer machine screws.
It's certainly a great looking guitar. Well done on that.
Comparing the position of the neck join to a real Telecaster, the neck pocket does seem to be a few mm shorter than a real Tele. had the neck pocket been routed that bit longer, and the neck pickup cavity moved back slightly, then the bridge would be in a better overall position with regards to the intonation and screw length. As Jim says, you can always get some longer intonation screws for the saddles if necessary.
Looking at the relative heights of the bridge saddles, and the other photos showing the end of the neck, it does appear that the top of the neck isn't that parallel with the body and is lower on the treble side than the bass side. Not a lot you can do about that.
Personally I'd just fit a new nut and not bother about a shim. But to do it properly you really need nut files, and a good set isn't cheap. Even if you fit a shim (I'd just cut a small length of maple veneer to size and stick it in the bottom of the slot) you'd really need to cut the slots down to get the best action and to ensure they are the right shape.
This video shows how nut shots should be shaped. Most pre-cut nuts are simply notched flat and are far from ideal.
http://youtu.be/yfWvL2WwwGs
The general set-up looks like it could be better. You've got the low-E string higher than the A string, and given the neck radius, it really shouldn't be. So you could have another go at setting up the guitar. I like low actions and find that as long as the action is low, I can get on with most neck depths (though never a PRS wide-fat shape - I just can't use those).
You can certainly have a go at thinning down the neck shape. I'd try and take measurements from necks that you can cope with. I find that the necks I struggle with have deep straight 'shoulders', so are more like a stretched 'D' than a "C" in profile. I cut down the neck on a Jap Strat of mine because I found the shoulders too square. I just used a random orbital sander and then sandpaper until it felt right. You can get very technical and draw up profiles for different parts of the neck, and sand down (or use a spoke-shave) until you achieve those profiles but I just sanded away as evenly as possible and just used how it felt in my hand to tell me where to take more off from. But certainly, getting the edges of the neck more rounded, removing those few mm of straight shoulder, helped a lot with the feel.
And you can just Tru Oil the sanded areas as it will blend in well.
Hey guys,
thank you very much, very helpful replies as always!
I'm trying to get used to the neck before shaving wood away, but it was definitely a learning experience, as in THEORY, I was aware that different neck shapes exist, but this was the first time I actually really "felt" it. Same with the Telecaster sound. Yep, you read about the "twang" here and there, but you really need to play it to actually understand. After fiddling around on the settings, it started to sound quite nice, totally not what I am used to, but not bad.
Simon, you are right about the setting, but if I set the low e string any deeper, the fret buzz is VERY prominent. In this super high position, it is manageable, but of course I need to do something to fix it. The A string could get lower, but then the "thing" they rest on gets very uneven and the string almost slips down... So these two strings are a bit too high now.
I think the nut slot on my guitar is cut very deep, so I may not find a matching TusQ nut with the right height. That means I'd have to make my own which I find a bit daunting at my current experience level. But on the other hand, you gotta start somewhere, right? Need to wait until I have some money to spare for nut files, had to shell out 500 bucks for my car last week (check up and MOT).
It looks great! All your effort persevering with the tru oil paid off
Thank you John!
I admit I was close throwing it out the window once... But.... I'm not the temperamental type of person, so... sob a little, oil a little, repeat. ;-)
Regarding the nut: I dug out the nut that came with it and it's actually higher (around 1mm) on the bass side. So it's like that on purpose? I'm actually an idiot, because I should have seen that right from the beginning. I didn't really bother looking at it, just ordered a TusQ Telecaster nut and glued it on.. meh.
The bad news is that there is no matching premade TusQ nut I could use that would match the height I need. So I guess I need to make my own nut... oh dear :-)
First I must compliment you on the overall finish. I know you struggled with some parts, but the presentation is outstanding!
The customised pickguard (whilst I'm not a steampunker :p) looks great and the abalone top dome knobs work really well with whole colour scheme.
And I'll echo what Simon was saying about the neck and nut, but add a bit as well. From my experience, you can generally take off 1-1.5 mm of the apex without getting into problems with stability or interfering with the truss rod. And it's worth noting that 1-1.5 mm is a lot when it comes to how it feels in your hand.
However I share the same position as Simon in that a lot of the feel of a neck profile comes from the shoulder, not necessarily the overall depth (if that makes sense). I think a bigger change in how it feels can be achieved by sanding the shoulders and requires less "calculation" than taking down the neck thickness. And, as Simon mentioned, you can "eyeball it" and just go with what feels right.
Re-profiling can make a huge difference between a guitar that you want to play and a guitar that you feel obligated to play just because you made it.
I'm sure you can find an appropriate Tusq nut that would work for that neck. I've fitted Tusq nuts on several strats without issue (both Fender and ones I've built). And there's nothing wrong with shimming if it's done correctly. I use timber veneer, and once it's fitted and glued, it's simply an extension of the neck nut slot. Avoid using paper or cardboard though IMO.
Also, if the original plastic nut provides the right height, use it! At least for the interim. Yes, nut material is not insignificant, but a plastic nut is not instantly going to make a good instrument sound like crap. The tone of an electric guitar is far greater than just the sum of its parts. There are just so many variables, most of all beginning with the player.
Congratulations on completing your build. Good work!
You will find that on a decent quality guitar that's been finished off by hand, the bass side of the nut will be slightly higher. The bass strings have slightly more amplitude when vibrating, so need to be slightly higher off the first fret than the treble strings. And you shouldn't have too much nut showing above the bottom of the nut slots. The slots should only be between half to a full string diameter above the bottom of the slot. The more you bend stings, the more you really need the overall slot height to be a bit deeper IMO. So I normally do the full string height on my guitars.
So by the time you have a slightly higher nut height on the low E compared to the high E, and a slightly deeper nut slot depth on the low E because of the thicker string, you do end up with the bass side of the nut being a bit higher above the fretboard than on the treble side. Not a lot, but it's something that you really should end up with, not start out with.
The higher the top of the nut is above the bottom of the slot, the more force will applied to the end of the nut if it gets caught on anything, and so more likely to break off.
Here's a rather exaggerated drawing of a good nut with the slots at the minimum required depth, and a bad nut with slots that are too deep:
Attachment 36394
You'd almost always cut the nut slots first, and then file the top of the nut down. The deeper the nut slots are, the more careful you have to be when filing it, in case the force from the file itself snaps off the two end 'teeth' of the nut, which are always the weakest teeth, being only around half the width of the other teeth.
The force ('moment') experienced at the points marked 'weak point' is the force at the top of the teeth times the distance from the bottom of the nut slot. So for a similar force applied at the top of the tooth, the deeper the slot, the more force will be applied at that the base of the tooth. You are very unlikely to break the end off a well cut and shaped nut, but I've seen it happen on a poorly-shaped nut with the slots too deep.
So if you find that the slots are getting too deep and are likely to get deeper, its a good idea to do an intermediate file of the top of the nut and reduce its height, to reduce the risk of breaking anything when filing after cutting the slots even deeper.
Great looking finish. Well done.
All kits seem to throw up issues in some way or another but that finish does look the goods.
In terms of TUSQ nuts, I have found that they tend to be a bit short on height. I have fitted a couple and found that I needed to shim under the nut to get rid of fret buzz. Simon's advice on shimming is the best way forward to get some height.
I also tend not to glue in nuts until I have tested the level with strings. After I feel happy with the nut and how it is sitting I place a small dot of wood glue in the middle of the slot to prevent it falling out with re-strings but it is usually easy to remove if need be.
It looks good, TCG. Your perserverence has paid off, I think.
Hi TCG. Looks fantastic, you wouldn't believe it was a cheap kit from the photos.
Re. neck thickness. I just did exactly what you are contemplating with a TL kit I have just finished. Guitar all put together, neck finished with tru oil and I just couldn't take to the baseball bat so I took the neck off and went at it with a rasp and sand paper. Very carefully and nervously!!! I first took off a flat area across the back down to 20mm at the first fret and 21.5mm at the twelfth fret. I then rounded the profile using two cardboard cutout profiles I made from another guitar with a profile I liked. Lots of sanding with various grades later it felt to be the right shape. I re-finished with tru oil which blended in perfectly with the existing finish.
The neck feels and plays much better now. I have had no problem with the truss rod (that was an area of concern) but only have 9's on.
That last post from Simon about filing the nut is spot on. (and with illustrations as well!!! :))
The "sloping nut" method is the way I do it too.
I think anybody new to nut work (or even experienced ones) should copy & paste that one in the their reference materials folder! (everyone has one of those, right?)
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
I use OneNote and just cut and paste from here. It makes it much easier to find critical information compared to searching the forum. Also makes it easy to keep things in categories like "intonation", "bridge placement", "nut", "sanding".
Definitely recommended.
On the subject of neck sizes/profiles, kits will usually come with a fair bit of wood to the neck so you can sand them down to the size and profile you like. You don’t have to be aggressive and attack the neck with a rasp, I find spending some time with some 80 grit sandpaper is usually enough to sand the neck how I like it. I suppose if you like a V profile you may need to use some more serious tools, but to get a comfortable C profile doesn’t generally take too much work.
Like Fretworn, I'm pretty sure P80 is where I started for initial material removal.
Interestingly, and this may well be the power of suggestion at work here, but yesterday I picked up my TLA-1 after reading this thread, which I built in 2018 and have played regularly and... holy crap!!! - the neck felt huge!!!
My first thought was "Oh great, now I need to pull this apart and re-profile the neck!"
This was first thing in the morning with less than a full cup of coffee in my system and my hands were cold.
I picked it up today (after two cups o' joe and being up for several hours) and all is well :o. Crisis averted! I can put the sandpaper away! Phewww!
What an emotional rollercoaster!
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The more guitars you have with different neck profiles, the easier it becomes to acclimatise to a new neck. I can normally do it in a few seconds these days.
So simply own more guitars and the problem goes away.
The solution is "more guitars".
That's going in my build tips file for sure!
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"More guitars" and always play adequately caffeinated :rolleyes:
In the words of the great German philosopher Peter Fox "Hey, wenn's dir nicht gefällt, mach neu" (Hey, "make new" [start over] when you feel like it)
Guys, thank you so much for your kind words!
Today, my new nut arrived in the mail. I found a TusQ nut that works, I just had to sand it thinner and remove some width on the left and right.
I noticed that the nut slot on the guitar wasn't perfectly level, so I filled the bass side of the slot with wood filler, and sanded it level when it was dry.
Now the new nut is in place and it's already a big improvement. I was able to get all strings to a decent height. Still a tiny bit of fret buzz but nothing compared to how it was before. I think I'll leave it this way, it works well. Maybe I'll change the strings on the bass side to a thicker gauge but let's see.
Before taking any drastic steps and alter the neck, I'm trying to get used to it first :-)
I've been playing it almost daily and it's already better now, I only have problems reaching the low E and A with my pinky, which is too short. I have to twist my wirst a bit more than I'd like to, but I've been spiderwalking the neck and I hope it helps me to get used to it faster.
And while I still admire the feeling of the tru oil, I think it's too delicate as a finish. I know it can be fixed really easily compared to other finishes, but I can already see many fine scratches just from gently using the guitar. I know it will take a bit more time to completely cure and harden, but if there isn't a miracle happening, I don't think the tru oil is very durable for a guitar that's getting played. I'm not rough with my stuff (I think), I never dinged it, always put it on padded surfaces etc, but still, there are some marks.
I'm going to hang this guitar on the wall for a few weeks without playing it much, so I can see if it hardens a little more.
Glad to hear you got the nut sorted.
As far as Tru Oil not being a good guitar finish, I'm wondering if you go a bad batch given the trouble you had with some spots not setting.
I have use Tru Oil on both bodies and necks and never had an issue. I was originally created applying to the wooden stocks of shotguns and rifles. As you can imagine guns are exposed to all kinds of elements when hunting (rain, snow, mud) so it's meant to be durable.
FWIW, most finishes ( apart from UV cured) take at least 30 days before they cure (and the word "cure" is thrown around pretty liberally) and some, like nitrocellulose lacquer, never fully stop gassing off.
Just a couple of my thoughts.
It's good that you're becoming more comfortable with the profile too. It sucks having a guitar you don't want to play :(.
Its intended for sporting guns, which lead a much harder life than guitars, so there's every possibility it will harden up. I noticed with mine that it really was weeks before tru oil would sand to discrete dust particles, rather than roll up into little pseudo fibres.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatCluelessGerman
It can get very hard indeed. I'd suggest putting it aside for a few weeks (if you can), then re-polishing it.