I've been giving it a very light rub to tackle any dust, but I don't think it's a delamination problem, it was coming off completely - a dozen layers back to the wood.
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I've been giving it a very light rub to tackle any dust, but I don't think it's a delamination problem, it was coming off completely - a dozen layers back to the wood.
I had that with some water-based poly varnish on the small bass cab I made. Started to sand and huge sheets came off, apart from in some areas where it was resolutely stuck really firmly and took ages and a lot of effort to sand off. I have no idea why that happened, except that there are times that the universe really hates you.
Given the way other things have gone today I think your last point may be on the nail.
I do wonder if the pretty wild temperature swings we're having might not be helping though? Friday it was about 30 here, Saturday peaked at 15.
Hi Drew
(From my limited experience of guitar building, but reasonable experience of wood finishing)
Was your grain filler oil based? You shouldn't really mix oil based products like the grain filler, with water based products like your poly, over the top, as they don't adhere very well (think of rain on oil patches on the road) and that could be why it's not taking to it properly.
If that's the case, you might need to sand it back down (I mean who doesn't relish the opportunity to do more sanding, right?) and then use an oil based poly for the finish. Alternatively a sanding sealer might work after the sanding, but tbh, I'd keep all the products compatible. Just makes for less problems.
If your grain filler is water based then I'd still do the same. You can use oil based finish over water based filler - just not the other way round.
I used this. https://www.sailboats.co.uk/internat...iginal-varnish
Not expensive, smells nice, thins perfectly with white spirit and lasts for years if you do another one. (You won't use the whole tin)
Stain, grain filler and poly all water-based. Given the standard of the craftsman, I'm reluctant to blame the tools...
I think I've rescued it to a state that I'm happy with. Just need to be really careful with the intermediate sanding.
If I do balls up again I shall take your recommendation on board. :)
That's fair enough. Hope it works. I must confess I'm not a fan of water based stuff. I found the grain filler goes off so quickly, it's hard to use. And the only advantage of water based varnish over thinned oil based varnish is the lack of odour, which isn't generally an issue for guitars.
I like the colour. Looking forward to seeing the finished product.
Surely, the fact of not using the whole tin is a tacit inducement to insure that another one does indeed get built?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart D
Yes but I didn't want to go too strongly into that at this stage, bearing in mind the issues he's having with this build!! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankenWashie
Considerations for the state of my mental health are well founded! ;)
I second Stuarts call re International varnish. I have used it for 50 years on my past boats and never had a problem. I normally use the 2-part varnish - it just lasts longer and cures quicker but is 4 times the price.
Cheers
Ricky
It's not quite as durable as some of the polyurethane stuff, as it's more designed for exterior wood that can flex a little, and so is a little softer. But I think the finish is better. Horses for courses.
Well, after a fractious few months Wipe-On Poly and I have agreed to bury the hatchet, shake hands, and walk-away never to mention things again.
So I am now wondering if this is the kind of thing I should be looking at for spray-on poly: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rustoleum-A...s%2C155&sr=8-3
Thank you all
FWIW I have had numerous compatibility problems with Rustoleum.
I think spray cans are an expensive solution and usually you will need many more coats to get the desired finish.
I would give Ronseal Gloss Yacht Varnish a try.
I used this 5 years ago on my lounge floor when I refurbished my house.
Still glossy, no yellowing and hard as nails. Cleans and thins with white spirit so very conventional.
B and Q have it.
(Plus when you have finished the guitar, you can go and varnish the kitchen table or whatever)
Cheers
Ricky
Or your yacht.
Though you'll probably get one of your servants to do that. ;)
The left over tin might be an incentive for Drew’s next DIY yacht project.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Barden
Surely one has people to varnish one's yacht?
Too many people spend far too much Time and effort varnishing the yacht, when they really ought to be tending to the dinghy.Quote:
Originally Posted by blinddrew
that is definitely a lesson for our times.
I'm not sure what it teaches us, but that just emphasises the point! :)
When did this thread become a Benny Hill sketch?.....
Did somebody mention B.H.?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fretworn
http://kingcasey.com.au/Pages/video.html
cheers, Mark.
Is that a hint of Voltaire?Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankenWashie
There comes a time when losses have to be cut and moving on must be done.
Front, alright from a distance but orangepeeley:
https://i.imgur.com/3lNOcQ0.jpeg
Close up of said orange peel:
https://i.imgur.com/bEz3gzJ.jpeg
Back and sides are a satin effect:
https://i.imgur.com/4xQYwgy.jpeg
Surprisingly hard to photograph:
https://i.imgur.com/ZJkotAk.jpeg
Going to leave it a couple of weeks to harden up. Everything seems to be drying very slowly at the moment here; I think it's a bit more humid than usual.
If you’ve ditched the wipe on I’m assuming this is spray on poly? That satin looks really good.
If that's poly on the front it will flatten out quite a lot as it drys and hardens.
Don't be too hard on yourself Drew. IME, it's nearly impossible to not get ornage peel with a rattle can. (hell, I still get it out my gun!)
You'll be surprised how much you can flatten that (orange peel) when you wet sand, and even if you can't every last dimple out of it, you can still end up with a very glossy finish.
Positive comments very much appreciated folks! It's been an 'educational' build this one! ;)
Yes, nothing that sanding can't remedy.
Drew,
I read your thread and then jumped onto the PBG site and found a custom order one of these for myself. (Buyer returned for a little discount for me. :) )
https://www.buildyourownguitar.com.a...ad.php?t=10785
If my eyes don't fail me your fingerboard appeared to be a regular Rosewood and not the engineered style. How did it fair under tape etc?
I intend to just run a few coats of timbermate over the back of the body and neck...nothing over the front of the body. Then seal it up with aerosol polyurethane and buffing the wind out of it and then wax heavily.
I am certain that the UK should have something like this....and it goes on so very well and looks amazing.
https://www.bunnings.com.au/cabot-s-...rosol_p1572096
I think that's very similar to what I've used. Leaving it to harden for now then a final sand back and polish.
My fingerboard is definitely engineered rosewood, but having learned from my previous experience I waxed this one before taping it and the lift was minimal.
I will have to see what turns up....but the wax is a great idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by blinddrew
I did a search on the quote and could not find attribution, but I did find this:Quote:
Originally Posted by jugglindan
"Too many people spend far too much Time and effort varnishing the yacht, when they really yacht to be tending to the dinghy."
When you put it that way it sounds more like Groucho Marx, although I could't find him attributed either.
I was vaguely thinking of the ending of Candide, when the main character Candide essentially gives up hoping for a better world to live, rejecting the unrelenting optimism of his tutor with the conclusion that we really should spend time tending our own garden.Quote:
Originally Posted by fender3x
Thinking about it now, I am not really sure what I was thinking then!
That it was time to mow the lawn?
Interesting philosophical discussion aside, 3000 wet sand and polishing later and I'm calling this done:
https://i.imgur.com/JjC25sI.jpg
Looks ok on general inspection but if you look a little closer it's still a bit orange peely
https://i.imgur.com/AhbRGdW.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/hfCqimF.jpg
But I'm not convinced by the thickness of the poly so I'm calling that done.
Frankly it's a lot better than I've been expecting with this guitar on a few occasions...
Well it certainly passes the 3-feet-away test, so well done. If you had a buffing wheel (my dream acquisition but I don't have the space), you could probably get it a bit better, but not a lot.
Take the rest of the day off and celebrate.
Actually a couple more polishes has pretty much done it. Aaaaand then i've gone and marked it all when I've drilled the holes. More polishing tomorrow, with a tiny bit of sanding, and then we're onto assembly and soldering.
Looks good. I think you've done very well there. I've certainly done worse :o.
This is one reason why I'm a big advocate for drilling holes pre-finish.Quote:
Aaaaand then i've gone and marked it all when I've drilled the holes.
I know, I know... people go on about the wet sanding/water in the holes etc, but my reply is always "bee's wax"!
Drill the holes; apply the finish; plug the holes w/ bee's wax; wet sand/polish; done.
The wax is extracted when you turn a screw in, and what's left behind acts as a lubricant for smooth turning screws.
I have a strat body on the bench now that I plugged yesterday for wet sanding today.
Yeah, next time... ;)
Great idea, actually! But how is staining with the holes filled with wax? If you get a tiny bit of wax on the surface, it surely won't take any more stain?
Or do you do it even pre sanding?
You don't fill the holes until you're ready to wet sand. So the finish has already been applied and cured.Quote:
Great idea, actually! But how is staining with the holes filled with wax? If you get a tiny bit of wax on the surface, it surely won't take any more stain?
Or do you do it even pre sanding?
EDIT TO ADD:
Here's a screenshot of a post I made recently re: hole drilling and my process -
Attachment 36919