H's JBA-4 Fretless

G'day H, 1st coat looked good and yes, maybe laid down a bit too thick but still OK as what you have there looks pretty similar in terms of what I experienced.

If it ends up looking 'Green' again, just leave it alone for a couple of days to harden and then knock it back with a bit of sanding. Once this 1st one has cured, see how many undulations you have before getting too carried away with the sand paper. This is weird stuff to use for filling some of the dips and you will be blown away by how subsequent coats may react to the one previously laid. It was only after doing about 10 or more touch ups that I began to start figuring how this stuff reacts with itself, mostly unpredictable, so lots of patience was required.

Recommend a similar thick 2nd coat, starting at the nut and gradually using an old credit card to smooth the watery liquid along as you go, remembering it is being used as a tool to spread the liquid, nothing else, and most importantly try not to go back over what you have already done as the thinnest layers may have already started to cure.

Very toxic stuff and the fumes it gives off made my eyes water too, even with glasses on. Understand why you went outside but if you end up with a watery finish again the job really needs to be left alone for a period of time for things to start to 'Set' and that's where floating airborne objects can become a problem. Did mine in the Garage with door up about 150mm and basically held my breath whilst directly above the job.

Here's the awful looking mess I made:

http://i.imgur.com/8ud8rbT.jpg

Which got gradually better over about 90 minutes

http://i.imgur.com/tQodJr7.jpg

Until it was nice and smooth again

http://i.imgur.com/ZsKWonr.jpg

Interestingly, some parts retained their shininess, and on close inspection, I can see that they're little depressions, not raised lumps of glue. I think those will fill in as I do more coats. the bottom left part of the fretboard is what I'm talking about, the shiny bit above that is from wiping clean.

http://i.imgur.com/m7NMfXw.jpg

well done H, just build up layers slowly and give them plenty curing time. Mask off the nut slot so no glue gets in there

Ah, you replied while I was waiting for the next photo to upload. Yeah, the nut slot's masked, I just had that bit of tape off for sanding.

Here's the result (just about dry after 45 minutes) of trying to do a thin coat and use a piece of plastic to push it along:

http://i.imgur.com/HCYxMu5.jpg

I'll sand this back with wet/dry because the ridges are very shallow, but I think in future I won't try to push it around so much as just get it to flow on smooth like I did the first time.

Planning on 3-4 more coats after this, sanding back at 2000 between, but obviously I'll see how it goes.

Last one for the day, wet sanded back with 1200 then 2000, surface is now smooth as anything except for a few depressions (way fewer than before!) I now can't feel the fret lines or inlays when moving my fingers across them, which is awesome.

The fretboard is mostly staying dark except for a couple of bits towards the edges, which I imagine are the parts that I didn't sand down quite enough before starting. I'm sure they'll come good in the next few repetitions.

http://i.imgur.com/g9PIBXs.jpg

Is there a need to make the surface that mirror finish glossiness you see on many fretboard conversions, or is keeping it a little bit satin OK? I'm pretty happy with the way the non-faded bits look sanded to 2000, but I'd be just as happy to go glossy if there's a structural or musical reason to do it like that.

I'm real happy with how this Hot Stuff glue goes on. I've had a few runs, but it's not too bad to work with now that I've got a handle on how thick to do the coats and NOT TO TOUCH IT BEFORE IT DRIES. The smoothness I'm achieving with it makes me wonder if it would make a useful body finish.

looking great H. Up to you if you want a satin look instead of gloss. Sanding with a high grit paper will give you a glossier look so maybe try sanding with a lower grit paper. Glad you got the hang of the glue

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Originally Posted by UpperCaseH

Whoever said "ventilated area"... I'd go a step further and say "do it outside". I did it outside, leaning over the neck. Just before the pic was taken I realised my eyes were starting to sting a little, so I did the rest of the job at arm's length with a bandana over my nose and mouth. It doesn't really smell strong, but it's obviously nasty stuff.

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Bro go to a safety store, or BGSFOS and get a half face twin filter respirator with P2 filters and probably goggles. The fumes off that stuff are not good for you, even outdoors.

I've started to use mine whenever I generate any dust or fumes (Sealing the edges of templates with CA, Sanding, routing etc), better safe than sorry hey?

G'day H, making good progress.

In your last shot it looks like you have sanded back to bare wood on the Fret Board and there lies the challenge in finishing off with this stuff as it is being used as a sealer to protect the raw timber.

Can't remember how many times I just sanded through in tiny little spots here and there. Upside is it looks like you have a really smooth all over surface to work with. Just need to gradually get a bit more thickness on before using 2000 and even finer grits heading towards a final polish.

Edit, Wax & CA don't like each other too much and as such you cannot hide the dry/raw patches on the fret board by applying wax to them as it sticks out like dogs .......

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Originally Posted by FrankenWashie

Bro go to a safety store, or BGSFOS and get a half face twin filter respirator with P2 filters and probably goggles. The fumes off that stuff are not good for you, even outdoors.

I've started to use mine whenever I generate any dust or fumes (Sealing the edges of templates with CA, Sanding, routing etc), better safe than sorry hey?

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Picked up goggles during lunch today, no rubber/filter respirators that I could find but I got a couple of 3m cloth painters "respirators" and hopefully those'll work. If I ever do something similar, a decent respirator will be on the shopping list before anything else.

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Originally Posted by wazkelly

In your last shot it looks like you have sanded back to bare wood on the Fret Board and there lies the challenge in finishing off with this stuff as it is being used as a sealer to protect the raw timber.

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Yep, definitely sanded through! Going a bit thicker with the next coat and I'll see if I can manage to go a bit lighter when making it smooth.

The 3m gear should do the trick, especially if you stay more or less "upwind" from the board as you apply. I've a family history of respiratory issues so I just don't take risks with it, mask goes on before bottle gets opened, even with the Dingotone.

Might need to drop the sanding radius or cork sanding block and just use grit paper folded over with your fingers and keep checking after a few passes back and forth. Even with 2000 used wet it is surprising just how much cut is possible. You will also end up at a point where it is not so good to sand up and down long sections either as that is most likely when more damage will be done without realising it. Towards the end I was concentrating on no more than 70mm to 100mm sections at a time.

If the surface goes crazy like it did in one of your earlier shots don't panic and sand like a madman, instead see if adding another thin coat helps to even things out and make sure you give it double the amount of time you think it needs as some of those shiny patches can just be a gel like skin and turn to crap real quick. If you give things more time the harder and tougher the surface becomes but that doesn't necessarily make the finishing off job any harder, in fact it becomes easier as you start to understand how it reacts with itself and the underlying coats already applied.

Edit: Another reason for wearing a mask is to prevent inhaling the sanded dust particles too as they tend to gum up inside your nose and block things up, and not forgetting just how toxic this stuff is in any state or form. Same deal with sanding guitar bodies too as fine Basswood or Ash dust up the nose is yucky and Timber Mate is pretty nasty too.

Not sure what happened with the last coat, but it took 2 days to harden and dried with bubbles and heaps of low patches in it.

http://i.imgur.com/w35TV6W.jpg

Sanded back to get the bubbles/pits out, but not down to the lowest of the low patches.

http://i.imgur.com/W9CFDY5.jpg

Everything matte in that image is raised from the shiny parts. Not sure what caused the previous coat to take so long and to dry so weird, but I'm gonna go with "too thick". Wasn't hard to sand down, and I was careful not to go through.

I've put another thin coat down concentrating on the low parts and it looks nearly dry after an hour (gonna wait 24 hours before I even think about touching it), and it's already looking much better.

Wore the mask when sanding, added the goggles when putting the glue down, couldn't smell a thing and no stinging in the eyes even when leaning close, so I guess these are gonna be fine. I'll look at a decent filter/respirator if I do any more guitar buildng after this one (so I expect to own one before christmas...)

Yep, both shots look very familiar.

You are doing well and already mapping out a plan to solve these minor set backs. In the first shot where it was all crazy I had that happen several times and on one occasion didn't bother sanding and just laid down more glue and left it for a few more days to cure as that helped to provide a bit more of a thicker layer before attempting another wet sand. It is really just trial and error until you get things just right but truly worth the effort in the end.

Following your advice, got most of the raised parts off with the radius then folded the paper over my fingers to concentrate on the problem areas. Got 9/10 of the depressions smooth, then

http://i.imgur.com/787P20R.jpg

Maybe 10 passes too many, and the same in a smaller area a little further down. Making steady progress though, so no complaints - it's a little better each time. It seems that very, very thin is the way to go with each coat. Next thin coat is on and dried, so I'll attack it in a bit and see how it goes.

Not about the fretboard now - if I decided to use Wudtone, how does the application differ from Dingotone?

Hi H, application of wudtone is the same as Dingotone, rag it on fairly thin coats.

Looks familiar......oh so easy to scrape through to the bare wood. Just need to touch up those areas only and be careful not to go through in any other adjoining places.

Looks like you are nearly there. Loving the cedar timber mate strip contrast which looks almost Mars bar caramel colour in that shot.

Thanks, I'm really happy with the colour the timbermate went under the CA. It was lighter and pinker than that before the finish went on. Not heaps, but it's darkened to a really nice caramel, yeah.

Got another coat on and then sanded over the weekend, focusing on the bad spots. At this stage, I think I've got to start thinking about how "perfect is the enemy of done"

From a distance, the neck looks great apart from a couple of slightly cloudy spots near the high frets that I don't think are coming off no matter what I do.
http://i.imgur.com/Cb64LR2.jpg

Several sections still have tiny flaws in them
http://i.imgur.com/oS3fNWQ.jpg

I'm not sure if another coat is going to help here, since these spots are really shallow (can't feel most of them) and seem to migrate between coats. I'm wondering if what I need to do is stop recoating/sanding and just polish from here. This is 2000 grit. Should I just gently work up from there at this point with these micromesh pads? Or keep coating/sanding and hope these fill in? They're only obviosu from up close with the light at just the right angle, and from experience I'm always going to be able to find something wrong if I look that close.

Also, I found out last week that the Nullarbor Ochre I ordered is unavailable right now because some ingredients can't be sourced. No problem, I can see how that happens with a hand made product. I've got some colours in mind but I'm still trying to get in contact with Dingo Bass about a custom colour kit and not having any luck.

Coming along nicely and in the long shot the grain has come to the fore.

With the cloudy bits how thick does it look? If there seems to be a bit of depth just ever so slightly use the 2000 wet as that will eventually cut through and remove the cloudiness.

For the tiny indentations you will need at least 1 or 2 more thin coats just in those areas, not all over as that can introduce problems in areas that already look and feel ok.

Progress is slow, but it's continuing.

I had a closer read about Andrew's JBA, and the colour he achieved with the Feast Watson stain is pretty neat. I'd want it a bit darker, but I'd assume thinning less would get to something like what I'm after. Would a tru-oil finish work over that kind of stain? If so, I might give that a shot for this bass.

I think it's about time I contributed to this thread! Your neck is coming along nicely. Minor issues your having are pretty much what I experienced but your on track... For the finish I used 2x Coates of FW Jarrah thinned. Not sure if it would come up any darker unthinned but on another Tele build I used colour tone mahogany then FW Japan black over it. Is this more like the colour your after?

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...4fd50c557b.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...e7d91e54f4.jpg


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Originally Posted by andrewdosborne

I think it's about time I contributed to this thread! Your neck is coming along nicely. Minor issues your having are pretty much what I experienced but your on track... For the finish I used 2x Coates of FW Jarrah thinned. Not sure if it would come up any darker unthinned but on another Tele build I used colour tone mahogany then FW Japan black over it. Is this more like the colour your after?

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...4fd50c557b.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...e7d91e54f4.jpg


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Haha, now I'm conflicted about this! I thought your jazz bass looked great, but that one's probably closer to what I was originally thinking!

What did you use for finish over that? I was leaning towards trying a tru-oil this time, but I've got no idea if it'll work over those stains (or if it has any trouble with any stains - I got the impression from somewhere that it did). I don't want to use a rattlecan or similar because I've really got nowhere good to spray or dry something like that - it'd have to be outside.

It's good to hear that the neck is coming along similar to how others' did. Sometimes I look at it and feel like I'm constantly messing it up and it'll never get finished, but so far in this hobby patience and tiny steps have got things done, so I'm pushing through.

Edit: Because I'm a newbie to this, I'm going to ask if there's any particular reason you used Colortone mahogany instead of FW. As in, if I just picked up the FW mahogany and FW black, would it do the same thing, or are the brands significatly different in some way?

On this one I used satin poly. It gave me a nice durable finish without too much effort and I do not need to worry about kids dinging a mirror gloss finish!

Keep going with the neck it requires a lot of patience. The clouding drove me nuts!

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Decided to decide, picked up some FW mahogany and japan black prooftint today along with FW colour reducer. Plan is to use the mahogany diluted none or a little, then go over with a more diluted japan black. What kind of ratio of reducer : stain do you reckon I should be looking at?

Further question: I understand that I can use an oil finish on an oil based stain, but this is "spirit" stain. One site I read said that with wood stain oil = spirit, but I thought I'd check here if I can tru-oil this stuff or if spirit stain is actually different (I mean, they're labelled differently, but I don't know enough about this). If I can't tru-oil it, I might try a wipe on poly. Is minwax the go there, or something different?

I also finally got around to selling my old bass and amp, so I've got some extra cash for music stuff and am now tossing up between building another bass and buying some effects... not a bad problem to have :)

Hi H, I have used FW proof tints and tru oil no problem. I would guess the mini wax should work ok but you would have to test it first on scrap.
With the reducer you really need to experiment with the ratio to achieve the colour stain you are after. The FW mahogany stain has a really deep red colour to it, more red than brown. Also the Japan black isn't as black as the straight FW black.

I'd have a play around with some scrap wood to get the colours you are after

what does it say to clean up with? Turps = Oil.

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Originally Posted by wokkaboy

I'd have a play around with some scrap wood to get the colours you are after

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OK, will do. Sounds like fun! Don't have any ash to test on, but I guess I'll try it on pine and also on maple headstock offcuts (and if that looks good I might try doing the neck and head the same colour).

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Originally Posted by Dedman

what does it say to clean up with? Turps = Oil.

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Clean up says methylated spirits, so I guess it's oil. Thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wokkaboy

Hi H, I have used FW proof tints and tru oil no problem. I would guess the mini wax should work ok but you would have to test it first on scrap.
With the reducer you really need to experiment with the ratio to achieve the colour stain you are after. The FW mahogany stain has a really deep red colour to it, more red than brown. Also the Japan black isn't as black as the straight FW black.

I'd have a play around with some scrap wood to get the colours you are after

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Woks makes a good point there. The FW mahogany is more red - the colortone mahogany is more brown.

Also the underlying wood will affect the final colour. The Tele I stained was Alder which had its own unique colour twinge.

If you scroll down this thread I used neat FW mahogany for the body (& TO for the finish)

http://www.buildyourownguitar.com.au...?t=4596&page=5

That's a great colour, I can see it working with the black over it too.

I'll have a play around tomorrow or the next day on some scrap, and then get started on the body. Like I said early int he thread, rather than plan this build out step by step I was gonna try to kind of go with the flow a bit and see where it leads. So if comes up that red over the ash I might forget about the black and let that vivid red/brown over ebony timbermate be the colour.

Wow... glad I tested these! The "mahogany" on pine and maple comes out in colour that I'd describe as "red wine spilled on tablecoth". Not all that attractive to me, and not what I was after at all.

I'll see how it dries overnight, and if it's the same colour in the morning I'm gonna pick up either (or both of) Walnut or Brown Japan from the same brand and see how those go.

Hi H, I did warn you the mahogany is a deep red. The walnut/brown japan and Jarrah are a nice brown if that's what you are chasing. The mahogany will dry a pretty similar colour or maybe deepen a touch

I just wasn't expecting it to be so purpleish - was expecting deep and dark, but more brown-red than brown-purple if that makes sense.

But I listened and tested it first and avoided a whole lot of hassle!

How does it look if you add a bit of the Japan Black?

For most of my builds I experimented on scrap pine ply wood mixing up various ratios of colours or dilutions before settling on something. Also let those samples dry for a day or two and then added some TO as that also changes colours ever so slightly too.

Amazing how colour charts or samples in a hardware/paint store look nothing like what comes out of the can, plus the underlying colour tones in the timber also play their part. Generally browns are made by mixing various ratios of red & black together. Just gotta look at your computers printer to see that only 4 base colours are used to create all the shades of a rainbow. It all comes down to how many parts of which goes with what to achieve desired shade or colour.

I added a bit of black to one end, and it still didn't look great to me. I'll try again tomorrow when it's actually dry. I had to go to the shops tonight anyway, so extended my trip, picked up some Walnut, and applied that to the other side of the maple offcut and to the pine scrap, and also over some of the mahogany.

Can't tell how it looks in the light I have available. Tomorrow I'll add some black over that and see how it goes, and I might also try mixing the walnut and black before application and give that a shot.

I get how colour mixing works in the context of a computer screen or print, but the way the stain interacts with the wood makes this a bit different (well, different to me - obivously the same basic principles, but it's a bit harder to work with than photoshop!) I think I'll have a good time experimenting until I find something I'm happy with, and the small bottles of prooftint are cheap enough that it's not an issue to try different things.

I'll get the tru oil ordered tonight.

Right hand side is the undiluted Walnut. Left is the undiluted Walnut with a 50/50 diluted Japan black on top. It's redder in the pic than to the eye. Looks almost identical on the maple as on the pictured pine.

Plan is to do 2 coats of Walnut on the body, then if it still looks light despite the ash and ebony timbermate, go over it with the 50% black japan.

For the neck, I'm pretty sure I'm going to go natural, but I'm considering doing either the headstock or the whole thing in body colour. I'll have to think about that some more.

http://i.imgur.com/mQUOabv.jpg

Sunny spring days where I don't have work are a great motivator to get things done!

Fretboard's done. Couldn't be happier with it. Sanded through in a few small places last time, recoated those, and now spent the morning very carefully sanding those bits back and then polishing the whole thing up to ~6000 with micro mesh pads. Those things are great :)

http://i.imgur.com/TonKC7s.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/LHcNjr4.jpg

Now I'm going to very carefully slice around the masking with an x-acto and remove the tape. Then onto the body stain!

I say this a lot, but there's no way I could do this without all the help from everyone here. Hopefully one day I'll be able to contribute some advice :)

awesome job man!

fingerboard looks unreal H, well done and was worth the patience has paid off !

Look fantastic well done

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Aaaaaand the first stain is on the body. Don't think it needs any black on it from here. I think I'll gently sand it, do another light coat, and leave it at that.

http://i.imgur.com/BpxmWsH.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/xgsgI5z.jpg

Also got 99% of the tape off the neck. The glue had hardened it in places. I got a couple of bleeds and runs that I'm not sure how to fix beyond just sanding them until they're gone.

http://i.imgur.com/u1RQApT.jpg

In future, what I'd do is to mask 3 layers so that none of the tape that hardens is in contact with the neck, only with the un-hardened tape below it.

Edit: It's tempting to try a mild burst with the black japan though...