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two things Howard,
1. Did you skip the intensifier coat?
2. You can put DT over decals just fine. If I were you I'd layer up a number of finals though over the decal before any sanding....I think i did 6 the first time....but i can't remember:eek:....
Short answer is no, I didn't skip any intensifier.
I'm doing the body and neck separately because I wanted the neck to be colourless - the neck had 2 coats of DT neck stain, and now has the first coat of DT neck "final". Plan is to get 2-3 more final coats on.
The body currently has 2 coats of DT Karijini Red stain. It's going to get continued with once the neck and headstock back/sides are done since I want to do the headstock front in body colour and it makes more sense to me to do that at the same time as the body.
Thinking about it, I should have left the body entirely alone until I was ready to do the headstock front, but... eh.
Thanks for the decal advice - I was planning to layer, but was thinking 3-4 coats. I'll definitely consider doing more though.
Ah right, the neck. good stuff H
Found some cheap decal paper on ebay, hopefully my printer doesn't crap out on it like it does semi-regularly on everything else.
It'll be a while before I'm up to that stage, but is there any need for a decal fixative when applying to wood, or do I just slide it on, wait for it to dry, then clear coat over it?
No extra adhesive is needed. Just make sure you give the sheet a spray with clear after it comes out of the printer otherwise tge ink will break down in the water.
Pabs is right in that by using White Knight clear acrylic sprayed lightly over the decal once printed it helps to seal in the ink otherwise the water goes a murky looking colour when you try soften it up before applying to the headstock.
I used ink jet decal paper on all of my builds and the process worked very easy. In fact, using an ink jet printer also allowed me to use colour whereas most laser printers are monochrome, unless you already have a colour laser printer.
Only downside is that at certain angles you can see the edges of the decal transfer, no matter how many top coat layers you put down.
Wouldn't worry too much about seeing the edges, take a closer look at most Fenders, seems good enough for their QC....
Good point.
Thanks for the advice! Like Stan said, I can see the decal edge on my Fender p-bass (if I look closely and get it at the right angle) so... yeah, I guess that's gonna happen. I'll just trim it as close as I can to the edge of the graphic and hope for the best.
Still lots of stuff to do before I can even think about actually applying a decal. I have no idea where I'm getting the patience for waiting for stuff to cure, I'm generally not a patient person. I guess while I wait I'll try to think of something cool to put on there and also brush up on my incredibly rusty Illustrator/Photoshop skills. Or order another kit...
The first neck clear coat has cured. It's fine on the neck itself, but the back of the headstock (where I started, and where I think I had too much DT on the cloth) is a little bit... lumpy might be the best way to describe it. It was smooth as before application, so I'm pretty sure it's an issue with the clear coat and not the wood.
I guess I lightly sand back the affected area with 320 before the next coat? Or should I do that across the whole neck?
Hey H, I would as you say lightly sand back the affected area with 320 or 400 grit till it's smooth. If the rest of the neck is ok I generally give it a light rub with super fine steel wool. Next coats try and apply thin coats and wipe off any excess.
Thanks Wokka, with a tiny little bit of sanding at 400 the lumpiness disappeared. Rubbed the rest down with steel wool, got the second coat on nice and thin, and it looks like it's come up really well.
I didn't realise how little final neck coat it'd need per application the first time. I read "a little bit" and I thought I'd understood, but it's way less than that. I think I've got it dialled in now though - looks like "once you pick up the neck coat onto the cloth, the cloth should be just barely damp" is the right amount.
yeah that's it H the maple necks don't need much stain or clear on them at all, once the first coat is on subsequent coats need even less !
3rd stain coat on the body with plenty left over for the headstock. The glue marks I failed to get out properly are now nearly invisible unless they're directly under the camera flash or viewed from an extreme angle.
http://i.imgur.com/WvgldIc.jpg
Moment of panic when I was rummaging through the box of parts to have a look at the scratch plate, and couldn't find the neck pickup - "how the hell can I lose a pickup from a closed box?" - but there it was... stuck to the bottom of the bridge pickup.
Hey H that red is really looking vibrant now, are you happy with the depth now ? It should darken slightly with the final coats. Think if you want it darker 1-2 intensifying coats will nail the colour.
The magnets in the pickups have got me looking for springs and screws that I thought I'd lost in the past
Yep, happy with the colour as it stands, but if it darkens a little I'll be just as happy. Really looking forward to seeing how the intensifier and final coats work. Neck's looking good now too with the second final coat, might even only need one more after this.
sure H, I think see how it looks after one intensifying coat, should be ready for final coats after it's cured.
Can't remember what the neck looks like is that natural with stained headstock ?
Yeah, natural finish on the neck, body colour headstock front. Haven't started on the headstock front yet because I'm getting the clear finish on the sides done and cured first.
I just had a thought... I'm supposed to wait for each stain coat to cure for 3 days (or 7-9 cold melbourne days) before going to the next one, right? That's not just from stains > intensifiers and intensifiers > finals, correct?
Heh Heh, i was messing with magnets to attach cover plates and I set the little stack of neodymium Magnets down on the bench top. I didn't see them roll off but i heard the "Click!" as they attached themselves to something metal. After pulling all the wood, wood scraps tools and other associated stuff out from under the work bench I still couldn't find them. Then I looked up at the metal edge of the bench frame....Quote:
Originally Posted by UpperCaseH
H, 3-4 days curing should be enough for stain/intensifier/final coats. After your last final coat DB recommends to let it cure for 3 weeks but that's on the safe side - before you start any polishing and buffing
I think I phrased that badly. What I've been doing is Stain 1 > cure > Stain 2 > cure > Stain 3 > etc, which I thought was the right way but then started wodnering if I'm waiting too long (ie, 3 days) between stain coats and if that wait time is only supposed to be between stain and intensifier rather than stain and stain (I guess not, but waiting is hard).
Hopefully by the time the final coats are on I'll have another kit to work on and I won't mind waiting 3+ weeks before buffing.
sorry H misunderstood. from memory the stain coats should cure a bit quicker than intensifier and final coats. So you are ready to go onto intensifier coats ? give it 3 days from your last stain coat to be on the safe side. Curing times will be less when it warms up so winter can be frustrating waiting but making sure each coat is cured will pay off should be less fix ups required and a longer lasting better looking finish
Hi H.
all stain coats go down before the Intensifier coats. You can't wait too long between coats, it will just cure and be ready for the next coat no matter how long you take. I would say that 3 days would be the minimum you would wait between stain coats in this weather (even in Brissy). I would have left it 5, nevermind, stain coats are forgiving, just give it 7 days before you start intensifier coats. Check it after 7, if the stain doesn't rub off too well, you're all good.
Apply the intensifier coats a lot thinner than stain coats if you can, lately, i've been giving them about 7 days to cure because its been cold and humid in Brissy and i've had to put them down thicker because i'm doing a burst. If you put them down thinner they will cure faster.
Once dried, the intensifier coats look a bit bumpy if you hold it up to the light. I smooth this out by lightly wet sanding with 1200 grit or 2000 grit and wiping off excess water and sanding waste with paper towel before putting then next coat on.
Unfortunately H, you can't really tell by looking at the intensifier coats when they are fully cured. but I'll tell you what happens if its not. If its not fully cured, it will be dry to touch and wont rubb off on your hand buuuuut when you are wet sanding it will stick to the sand paper (even 2000 grit) and balling up in places. If that happens I would let it cure a bit more before continuing to sand. or just lightly sand a bit more and apply another intensifying coat over the whole guitar and wait a couple of days longer next time. Its not bad, just feels a bit defeating when you just waited a week for it and are pretty excited.
You wont need more than 3 intensifying coats. Sometimes 2 is enough just depends on how much you need to sand back.
Then you got to tackle the finals.........
OK, first intensifier is on the body. Applied it very thinly, it was hard to see where I'd applied and where I hadn't, but I think I got it all.
It looks amazing, but in photos it looks exactly the same as it did with just the stain. There's a kind of semi-gloss to it that wasn't there before, and iy looks a whole lot "smoother" (not sure how to explain this, it didn't look rough before, just kinda... not smooth.) I'll definitely do at least one more of these before starting the finals.
Hi five H. sounds like you got it licked. the intensifying coat will dry glossy on some parts of the guitar and not glossy on others. do not worry, this is normal.
Thanks Andy!
Oh, and a question I forgot to ask!
I'm going to need to scrape the binding, which doesn't look hard. Obviously I'll finish the intensifier coats before scraping, but do I scrape it before the final coats and put those over the top?
Up to you H, if it were me I would clean up the binding then apply the finals over the top of your shiny clean binding ;)
Great advice Andy. You are truly becoming the DT subject matter expert on this forum.
H, patience is the key ingredient and Andy's recommendation for no more than 3 intensifiers is probably where I went wrong as at around 4 or 5, for me it turned to Crud.
Take your time and it should all work out fine.
Yesterday, got the third (and final, I think) final coat on the neck.
http://i.imgur.com/wjV2NWr.jpg
Also got the second (and probably last) intensifier on the body. Then I pulled the tape off the binding. I've got so much scraping to do...
http://i.imgur.com/rqquiDa.jpg
looking good H, love the colour and the neck looking nice and shiny. Don't worry that's pretty common to get bleed in the masking tape on the binding.
Thanks Wokka, yeah I'm not worried about the bleed in places, I knew I'd end up needing to scrape a bit and the amount is my fault for not taking more care with the tape.
I was thinking of making a scraper out of a bit of dowel and a stanley knife blade. Cut a slot in the top of the dowel, wedge the blade in to the right depth, secure with a bolt and wing nut.
Here's a terrible MS Paint rendition:
http://i.imgur.com/briX2Ov.png
My theory is that it'll be impossible to go too far with this, since any rotation of the dowel will just shorten the blade in relation to the binding.
Alternatively, I could just be really careful...
great idea H to make a scraping jig. I've been meaning to make one. Look forward to seeing pics and how it works. Just have the blade sticking out same width as the binding and you should be okay !
looking good H, scraper seems like a good idea too
Looking great H! A suggestion for next time - if you use 3M vinyl tape (6mm is best) you'll get very little bleed onto the masked binding. That's what I use anyway and I'm very happy with it.
cheers,
Gav.
Ultra fine wet & dry would also take it off without doing much damage to the rest of the surface.
Yeah I probably agree Waz, I just wet sand from 600, 1200 and 2000 then steel wool.....scraping scares me!
That being said, I am interested in seeing the "scraping jig" in real life....:cool:
When you say wet sand for the binding, how are you keeping your sandpaper over just the binding? Or have I missed the point?
As for a scraping jig... last night while I was wondering if it would work or be worth doing, I made this thing out of a chop stick, and I think it's going to do exactly the the job. I ran it round the edges of some offcuts and the blade didn't slip or rotate or anything, so I might give it a try when I get the chance and see what happens.
http://i.imgur.com/TbcxXi4.jpg
With the finer grades of paper you can sand the binding without too much risk to the rest of the finish if you overshoot a bit - it's still best to try and sand the binding only though.
Chopstick scraper looks cool, and if it works, then it's good.
Chopstick scraper looked like a good idea, but it was pretty hard to control. Ended up finding an old style box cutter with the spring button to adjust the blade to whatever depth, and after blunting it up a bit it worked great. Hard to get into every angle, so I used an old x-acto blade with my finger as a guide for the harder to reach parts. There's still a few little bits to clean up, I might try to wet/dry sand those in a few days.
http://i.imgur.com/5pwXurs.jpg
wow with the clean binding that red really pops nicely, well done H