Lint-free cloths. Some of your T-shirts should be lint free depending on the material, but I get lint-free rags from Amazon. Paper towel should work OK for applying TruOil, at least the base coats.
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Lint-free cloths. Some of your T-shirts should be lint free depending on the material, but I get lint-free rags from Amazon. Paper towel should work OK for applying TruOil, at least the base coats.
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Yes, not all t-shirt material is created equal.
Also, some little fibres left behind will still be okay, but if you're getting fluff that kind of balls up, that's a problem.
The wee tiny fibres I'm talking about will a) just get buried without being visible; b) get knocked off with between-coat sanding* and then with final sanding and polishing.
How are you using the rag? Are you scrunching it up, or folding it into a "pad"?
If you're scrunching, the loose fibres on the edges (where the material has been cut or torn**) will drop fluff like there's no tomorrow.
If you are folding, this is the way to do it (IMO):
Cut (**NOT tear) a 150mm square of cloth with scissors.
Fold two outside (cut) edges so they meet in the middle.
Fold the other two cut edges into the middle.
Continue that process until you have workable size square and all the cut edges with loose fibres/fluff are on the inside of the pad.
This helps to greatly minimise fibres and fluff from coming off and getting onto the finish.
I know there are lots of builders/woodworkers that use this folding method, and I'm not the one who came up with it, however I figured it out on my own before knowing it was "a thing" :p.
*re: between coat sanding - I don't sand Tru Oil after each application. I only do it as needed (eg: debris in the coat, drip/run etc). I also don't do my first sand until there are enough coats that it starts to develop a sheen.
Lastly, and maybe most importantly, I don't use sandpaper! I use synthetic sanding pads. Sometimes called "synthetic steel wool".
+1 for not all "cotton" material is created equal.
My 2 cents:
I normally brush on the first couple of coats of TO so as to quickly get a good layer. (This avoids having the "rough" wood quickly rip apart the cotton cloth and leave fluff in the finish).
Once a good layer is down I then apply TO using a cotton cloth ball (French polish ball) created with a 10 cm square cotton wrapped around half a paper tissue.
I do sand every 5 layers or so working my way up through 400g - 2000g.
FWIIW - I think it is great that most folks have their own way of applying their finish. Experiment a bit and find what works best for you.
Good lint-free cloth can be expensive. I use quite a lot .
A quick test to check if cloth is lint free is to add some clear tape, press it down hard and then remove it. If very few fibres are removed it is Good cloth.
Thanks all, sounds like I am following most of your advice already based on what I had in previous posts. I am folding the t-shirt into a square with rough edges in the middle so not exposed.
What I am getting is tiny fibers not lint per se. These come off with a very light wed and dry sand with 2000 grit. More noticeable on the very dark Japan brown on the back. The top is looking pretty good so far with no issues.
I had a few dramas with my binding getting stained early on but after a clean and painting on the tru-oil everything is sealed now and staying put.
I will try and find a few other tshirts which can be sacrificed. I will also try the fresh polish method. I like sticky tape idea to test clothes.
Back to my shed !!!
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A brand new chamois will also work. Certain make up remover pads and also coffee filters.
One more question. I did a test applying my water slide decals after 4 layers of tru-oil and getting the headstock nice and smooth with a 2000 wet and try sand. Applied the decal which went on nice and smooth but the clear bits of the decal are slightly cloudy hence I could never bury.
Could it be sloppy application on my part or the truoil is not smooth enough yet or possible not cured enough ???
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Like this !Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakersdozen
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Cloudiness is usually a sign of moisture. That's why if you spray lacquer or poly when the humidity is too high, you'll get what's called "blushing".Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpearson
I haven't done waterslide decals on headstocks for a long time, but when I use to, I would allow it to dry for 24 hours. Sometimes under a 60w desk lamp depending on ambient temperature/humidity.
Good tip Trev!Quote:
A quick test to check if cloth is lint free is to add some clear tape, press it down hard and then remove it. If very few fibres are removed it is Good cloth.
I'll put that one in "The Book"!
Thanks for confirming ! Heading off on holiday for a week so it will have a good 4-5 days to cureQuote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
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Sorry, I thought you meant the decal was cloudy after having Tru Oil applied over it. It could still be a moisture issue reacting with the TO under the decal.Quote:
Thanks for confirming ! Heading off on holiday for a week so it will have a good 4-5 days to cure
TBH, I'd peel it off and start again. 4 coats of TO is bugger-all really. I would apply as many coats as it takes to start to develop a level of gloss and then re-apply the decal.
I normally apply my decals onto a glossy surface. If you have a 2000 grit flat finish, then the sanded finish will be trapped under the decal. TruOil over the top will make the surrounding area shiny again, but light passing through the clear decal will be diffused and it won’t look the same. If you can sand it flat to 2000, then apply a 50/50 thinned with turps layer on top which should give a decent gloss coat to apply a decal on. Alternatively wait a few days and just polish the area under the decal to a shine.
Also check that your decal printing method isn’t causing the issue. I tried converting my design from my graphics program to a pdf as it was easier to scale, but in converting, the clear area became covered in a layer of very fine dark dots, so I had to stop doing that.
And put a couple of layers of TruOil on the decal first before applying it. Then cut around the outline of the decal as closely as possible. It makes it so much easier to put on without the decal folding or creasing.
Thanks Simon - all makes sense. Will spend the next couple of days building up my base with a gloss coat then leave whilst going on holiday. I like the idea of coating the decal to hold its shape as experimented with cutting around the shapes and found they just folded on themselves so hope your trick works for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Barden
When printing i went back and fwd with the printer as I had to supply vector / illustrator files with no background and fonts outlined etc.
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Aeropress coffee filters work a treat. Super thin coats and no fibers. ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by Bakersdozen
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My first build is certainly a learning process. Whilst sanding back try-oil blemishes I have managed to sand through both my headstock finish and body back creating a lighter spot. Luckily it is quick sand back, restrain and start tru-oil process again.
Also discovered how thin the binding is on the horns which needed to be touched up with some satin white model enamel.
Off on holiday for a few days which will let the tru-oil harden up nicely ready for applying decals and smoothing the body finish ready for the next 15 or so tru-oil coats. There is quite a bit of grain to file on the front where I (tried to ) remove glue marks that would appear to gave soaked through the veneer and was not removable in the end.
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Looking good none the less. And remember all things considered it's only going to be you who knows all the little imperfections. When someone else looks at it completed, they certainly will not be able to pick out all those little bits that have niggled you along the way.
Totally. [mention]Bakersdozen [/mention] question for you. When you installed your mini dpdt switch’s did you use the washers with the little tab on the body top or did you source smaller washers so only the nut shows. The locking washer with the jagged edge is supposed to go on top but looks a bit ugly. Prs themselves use smaller switches and seem to have a thin washer that is concealed behind the nut. I bought some slightly smaller ones from Bunnings and Jaycar has nothing better. Wondered what you used ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakersdozen
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You didn't say what the blemishes were trying to fix, but if it was a small area like a bit of dust/debris or a drip/run, below is a little woodworkers trick that is great for targeting a very specific spot without sanding the entire surface.
strip-sanding technique link
You can cut the strip as narrow or wide as you need to accommodate the area that requires sanding. I use this technique all the time when I'm doing a finish.
I just used the ones that came with the switches, and from memory I removed the little tabs . You'll be fine with the new smaller washers, they should work fine. I don't like the locking washers either, hardly ever use them [emoji3]Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpearson
I lied, the little tabs are still on there [emoji23][emoji1787]
Thanks. Basically issues with how the truoil has set in visible locations and me being a bit OCD. Using the coffee filters is heaps better than cloth I have not had any more issues with the finish, just dust which I discover I can polish out with a lint free cloth.Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
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Thanks. I reckon I will be installing in 2 weeks. A lot more tru oil to goQuote:
Originally Posted by Bakersdozen
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The anti-vibration washer ("jagged edge" one) typically goes on the underside of the body or cavity to prevent it loosening up and turning. The thin shiny one (called a "dress" washer) goes on the outside under the nut to mask the hole that the threaded bushing goes through.Quote:
The locking washer with the jagged edge is supposed to go on top but looks a bit ugly. Prs themselves use smaller switches and seem to have a thin washer that is concealed behind the nut.
This is the same for control pots too.
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Few weeks since last update as I have just been applying tru-oil coats daily. (Around 20 coats so far). As it quite hot in Perth at the moment and Covid restrictions are requiring work from home I am able to apply 3 coats per day. I am using 1200 grade synthetic steel wool pad bought from sandpaper man to smooth every coat now and every 5 coats flattening with a 4000 micro mesh pad. Seems to be working as I am gradually filling the veneer grain that became a lot more open when I was trying to remove all the soaked in glue. (Didn’t want to risk sanding it smooth once I had covered the glue stains). Successfully filled and flattening grain on the horns but I reckon around 15 coats more required around the f-holes. The guitar back needs a lot more coats to get nice and smooth but every coat seems to be getting slightly closer.
I have applied my head stock decal which took about 6 attempts as I cut out the letters to avoid too much background but the decal kept folding on me when placing. Lucky last try and it is sitting pretty flat and looks like I can bury with tru-oil. Photo shows 2 coats applied.
Photo also shows custom truss rod cover made from a bit of scrap plastic box. Pretty happy with how this looks now.
Next update will be 2x final gloss coats of tru-oil (50:50 turp mix)
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I like your logo. Very classy. How'd you do the lettering on the truss rod cover? Looks good also.
Shame about the deep grain below the f hole. Now that you have a base of Tru Oil, would you consider filling and levelling with CA?
I think it will take an enormous amount of Tru Oil to get that flat. If you filled and levelled with CA, you could then continue over it with Tru Oil. Once dry, CA is fairly innocuous with other finish materials.
Another option is wet sanding with Tru Oil. It's a method of grain filling referred to as slurry sanding or simply the slurry method.
You've overcome so much here, and it's looking really good, it would be a shame to have that one spot be the let down of whole project.
Thanks for the tip. The slurry method could work although a bit nervous that it may go cloudy? Being a bit dim. What is CA?
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Truss rod cover is a decal applied on the black plastic. Tried to do a cut and bury it but didn’t work so just laid down 1 big decal. I had a whole page of decals printed in different sizes to get some flex. All laser printed which is awesome as no issues with the decal degrading with water or top coat.
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I think CA is code for super glue [emoji3]Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpearson
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It shouldn't go cloudy as the process is just creating "Tru Oil dust" which simultaneously mixes in with the liquid Tru Oil. The "slurry" mixture fills in the grain better because it is a thicker consistency.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpearson
CA = cyanoacrylate (super glue)
This is a mahogany neck I grain filled using the slurry method:
Attachment 42375
It is a Tru Oil finish.
Got it. Will give it a go tonight once it cools down a bit. Applying in 40 degree heat the truoil goes tacky too quickly.
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You want to use a wet/dry sandpaper and not finer than P600. P400 is a good starting point, then P600 as the grain starts to fill in.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpearson
You don't need to apply a lot of pressure, just enough to let the sandpaper do the work and enough oil that it's not binding or grabbing.
It will take at least several applications with allowing the Tru Oil to dry in between.
Also use an appropriately sized block for the area you're working. Small enough that your not sanding more area than you need but get a reasonable "stroke" with the block. (note: I find a circular motion is effective as you're really just sanding finish not the wood in this case.)
If the Tru Oil is tacking up that quickly, then you may need to lightly dilute it (I would try 10% turps and see how you go). I know this is contrary to what I posted earlier, but I have not had to work it in such extreme temperature. And in this application of slurry sanding, the extra mineral turps is beneficial. When I have done this with DIY wipe-on poly, I have added a bit extra turps.
4000 grit micromesh is a polishing grade grit and is useless for flattening the finish. You’ll just be smoothing the very tops of high points and making them quite shiny, but you won’t really be ‘flattening’ the finish and there will still be a significant difference between the high and low points of the finish.
I’d stick with P600, or maybe P400, if you really want to get the finish flat. But I’d wait until you’ve got enough layers on to do it safely and not risk sand-through.
I agree with McCreed on using CA for the F- hole area rough patches. I’d probably use the thin or extra thin CA so it fills the ‘valleys’ as thicker CA may just follow the contours. But thin CA is very runny indeed, so mask off around the area to avoid runs and get the F-hole area flat first so the CA stays in place. Don’t use a CA accelerant to make it dry quicker as it’s likely to pucker and cloud. Just apply and leave for a day to fully harden.
Thanks McCreed and Simon. Simon your 335 build was one of the first I followed and very wary of sanding through my truoil. I have already refinished the back and headstock by sanding through so want avoid killing the front as veneer is already has a vintage appeal and want to avoid shifty from classy vintage to relic.
I have tested a small area using the slurry method using 600 grit wet and dry paper. Will see how it dries and give it another go.
If I go the super glue route, does standard Bunnings super glue do the trick or do you buy something special ????
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Superglue is pretty much superglue (unless you go for the medical grade stuff that's safe to use for closing wounds up), but I would use the thin stuff. The standard off-the-shelf superglue is a medium viscosity. If you watch the StewMac videos on drop filling techniques, they use the thin stuff just because it has much less surface tension so it fills any hollows well.
Do a local search for hobby stores in your area. Most of them stock the different viscosities.Quote:
If I go the super glue route, does standard Bunnings super glue do the trick or do you buy something special ????
The hardware store stuff Simon is talking about may be different than what we get in AUS, but IME the Selley's brand in the little tubes is thicker than the medium viscosity (ZAP brand) I get from Hobbyrama. However I agree that the thin viscosity is better suited to a grain filling application.
Yes, I suppose CA glues must be created in a wide range of fairly closely defined viscosities for industrial purposes, and then for general purpose use they generally them just classify them as thick, medium, thin (and sometimes extra-thin), and medium/standard glue can still have a reasonable variation in viscosity from brand to brand.
Morning all. I am getting low on tru oil and Pitbull seems out of stock. Does anyone know where you can buy in Perth ?
Mike
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Do a web search for gun stores in Perth.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpearson