The tech school had about a dozen 'hand platens' which involved using one hand to place the card whilst the other was removing the printed one before the platen closed...mind boggles how lax safety was back in the '70's.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatCluelessGerman
The platen I ran was equipped with a foil stamping and I printed millions of these. (the gold part)
Attachment 35461
cheers, Mark.
Ah, one of the famous Australian fighting wines, as mentioned by Monty Python.
Things have come a long way since then.
Yes, that's pretty common with treadle presses, they are run by pressing the treadle and the hands feed the press. Rule of the thumb is that the hand must be out before the platen reaches the full open state - you are doomed if you reach for slipped paper.
I love foil stamping! Nowadays, most printing is digital and "safe". While it's nice not to be scared you hair could get caught in a huge machine and rip off your scalp, the digital printing is pretty boring looking.... Just my opinion.
Man, my guitar looks freaking horrible right now! A million dips and holes in the surface, like during the first few coats :(
I wonder what I did wrong? Is 1500 grid too coarse to start? Have I just not added enough coats? I thought I was almost done, now I am back to square one.... Geez, I really don't know if I'll ever use tru oil again. Looks like I'm in for the long run now.
Putting more coats on generally doesn't fill the original dips. They just get followed, but at a greater distance from the surface with each coat. Which is why you need to build up enough depth to sand it all smooth without sanding back to the wood.
Really thinning the Tru Oil will let it fill up the dips a bit better, but you need to keep it flat to do so. And Turpentine still has a reasonable amount of surface tension, so won't just sit in the 'valleys' but will still cling to the 'hills'.
Sanding as you go along helps remove particles that have got stuck to the Tru Oil with each coat, but you are never going to sand it back properly flat unless you get a good number of layers on (and intermediate sanding will reduce the thickness each time you do a mild sand).
So it could still be bumpy, but now with enough thickness to sand flat. Without knowing exactly what you've done in terms of coats and sanding, it's hard to tell. I gave up on Tru Oil after my first attempt with it resulted in a sand-through after 30+ applications of oil. But that was on the ridge of an ES-1 's archtop, so an easy place to sand through and a place where the Tru-Oil would tend to run off when applied.
Hi Simon,
yes, this is exactly what I've been doing. Sanding in between every few layers to have it flat and lint free. I don't know how many coats I have been adding so far, but it's been almost two(!!!!) small bottles of tru oil so far. Now I know that grain filling with tru oil was a dumb decision, I now know what grain fillers are for, LOL! But I think I have been laying doing 40 or even more coats of tru oil so far. I think a combination of filling and sanding is what's needed, but it's a slow process. To be honest, I don't know if I would use tru oil again. I just don't have the patience to add 2-3 coats a day over the time span of many weeks. Really, that's just not my thing. I need to try the wipe on poly next time.
Sanded with 1500 grid again and it's looking better. But instead of sanding down until there are no more shiny pits, this time I'm trying to fill up the pits before sanding again. I'm just experimenting here, but I want to avoid sanding down the tru oil too much again. Unfortunately, there is a week of lower temperatures ahead, yesterday it was quite warm (26-28°C) and the tru oil was drying very quickly. Today I need to be patient.
I'm almost out of tru oil and the new bottle is not here yet. So I just hope that the back and sides are a walk in the park compared to the burl top. Otherwise, there will be much swearing I guess.
I always wanted to try tru oil until I read this thread. Now it's a no no for me.
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I think it can be really nice if you have flatter wood or used a sanding filler before. On the back and on the sides of my guitar, it looked great from the beginning. But the front of my kit is this burl veneer which has like a gazillion tiny holes and dimples. I SHOULD have used a sanding filler before starting with the oil, but I didn't know this beforehand. So what gives me the trouble is that I am basically filling ALL the tiny holes and spots with the tru oil, and man, this takes ages.
So if I knew it before, I would have either used the sanding filler or something like wipe on poly.
If you are good with wood working, it's probably basic knowledge, but for me without any former experience, it's a lesson learnt.
Yesterday I was so frustrated that I never wanted to use tru oil again, but today, after a good night of sleep, I think it's pretty beautiful stuff but you have to accept that it's not a quick process, it WILL take quite long compared to poly or spray lacquer. So all I can do is getting on with it, coat by coat ;-)
I would still recommend it - I've used it on half a dozen projects and always had great results. It is slow though.Quote:
Originally Posted by jugglindan
Most of the early issues I had with the LP jr were to do with the wood (it has very deep and obvious grain) and the timbermate not working well. Later issues were operator error!
After my initial frustration, I *think* the finish is now coming along nicely. But of course, still many points where it can go wrong.
I have added a few fairly thick coats of tru oil in specific areas and maybe this was a good thing, let's see.
In the meantime, I have decided for a new pickguard shape and cut a template with my vinyl cutter (great to cut thicker paper, too!). In theory, the copper sheet should have arrived today, but it looks like the parcel dude just didn't feel like it. So it will either come tomorrow or I'll have to pick it up from who knows where again. Meh.
Funny thing is that I now realized that the old pickguard didn't fit perfectly, anyway. I mean, it did fit, but not as neatly centered as I would have liked it. So I don't feel bad about making the new one, anyway.
I have also experimented with liver of sulphur for aging/staining it. Interesting stuff. It smells like a pretty huge pug fart. When my husband comes home in the evening, I can blame the dogs.
I am glad to see that blaming the dogs for any bad smell is universal to all cultures :)
Well, if we are honest, in 95% of all cases, the dogs ARE the cause for the bad smells :D
(or something they found. Or ate. Or rolled in.)
Cats. Cats are the answer.
Glad to see you're persevering, TCG.
I like tru oil a lot, and was very pleased with the result on my ESB-4 (sig), but I reckon at least three coats of their sealer filler sanded back before actually using tru oil. I think the ESB had a coat of sealer filler, then tru oil, then realisation that it wasn't going to work and about 3 more coats of sealer filler! I could then sand that back quite aggessively and go for the tru oil. I doubt I have more than about 10coats of tru oil on the sealer filler...
The parcel dude showed up some time in the late afternoon and soon afterwards I transferred the design to the copper sheet and etched it.
Got some pinholes in the toner transfer and covered it with some acrylic marker, turns out it's not acid resistant.. But oh well, it's getting aged and scuffed up anyway, so I don't mind the few defects.
Attachment 35475
But the thought of cutting it out with my piercing saw is not a very happy one. That will be challenging, as this sheet is almost 2 mm thick... Tomorrow, then.
I have to try this. How many cats does the dog have to eat before it smells better?Quote:
Originally Posted by PJSprog
OK, so if you wonder how I spent the last 6.5 hours...
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A full pack of extra super fine saw blades had to die for this.
It's what they would have wanted.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatCluelessGerman
Nice work.
Looks good! Cutting copper is tedious, so I don't envy you
Thanks Simon and John :)
I'm happy I didn't get the 2mm sheet of copper, cutting this one (1.5mm) was taking long enough :-)
I actually got a 2mm sheet of brass for another guitar idea, but when I realized how heavy it is, I got the thinner sheet of copper.
The guitar is now back in the box to cure, I wanted to add one or two more coats of true oil, but... well... The bottle is empty. The new bottle is not here yet. So, I have NOTHING TO DO today. Shock, Horror. Will probably clean the house. Dog is in heat and can't go meeting other dogs (otherwise here will be plenty of dogs here, soon..)
A question regarding the tru oil finish: I now have the guitar very even. Sanded down to 3000 grid and no more low spots/dimples. But how do I know if the actual coat is thick enough? To my untrained eye, the coat on top of the guitar looks nice but not particularly thick. I somehow think all the other guitar finishes with tru oil have a much thicker coating?
It's not easy to photograph, the guitar is now simply flat and matte, but I am scared the actual coating might be too thin to be protective.
If it's on, it's protective. You don't want a thick finish, as that can kill any resonance of the body wood. You want to put on just enough finish so that you've got enough depth to sand it smooth and then polish it up again.
Thanks Simon.
I just sanded the back side to grid 4000 and.. I sanded through the tru oil. No damage to the stain, but still, so frustrating. I can not count the amount of coats I put on this thing. Two 88ml bottles!!! Yep, most of it went on to the front because I didn't use a pore filler, but still, what am I doing wrong here? Maaan, I am really this bad at sanding? Geez! Not gonna touch this thing for the rest of the weekend.
If you've got to 3000 grit I'd just polish from there rather than sanding. It's what I did on the one in my link. That was around 40-50 coats of tru-oil in the end I think. But some of that was just error-correction. :)
Probably go straight to polishing after 2000 grit. 4000 shouldn't really take any depth off at all. Are you using that wet or dry?
Only wet sanding so far. I also have micro mesh stuff, I thought if I go up to 5000 grid, it would be easier to polish.. Been searching on youtube how other people do it and they get a super thick high gloss finish with only 6 coats. I guess I must have made at least 40-50 coats and... a super thin (at least even) finish...
OK. Micromesh use a different grit size to the standard P range of grits, but 4000 is still very fine indeed, especially when used wet.
Comparison chart here. Micromesh 4000 is comparable to the US 1500 and finer than P2500.
https://www.thesandpaperman.com.au/a...ion-chart.html
I've used Micromesh right up to 12000 before polishing, but in reality, it doesn't make much difference, and you probably spend a lot more time sanding with Micromesh 3200, 3600 and 4000 than you spend applying a few more polishing strokes with a medium polishing compound straight after using P2500.
Haven't used the micro mesh yet, my "normal" sandpaper goes up to 5000 grid, and after that, I wanted to go in with micro mesh. But alas, now I need to add more tru oil first. I just don't get why some people breeze through the finishing and it takes me forever, especially on the back where I don't need to do any grain filling...
New tru oil showed up... Determined to finish that thing :D
Attachment 35652
Lots of us don't breeze through, believe me. However I find applying tru oil a pleasantly low stress and relaxing operation though, whereas spraying paint is for me anything but.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatCluelessGerman
It's looking good!
I just keep having setback after setback with my headstock finishing, despite everything being i theory perfect. And I can't spray today because it keeps raining and I have to spray outside. Tru Oil as a finish is a slow process, but it's certainly a steady one.
I guess the neighbour's grass is always greener, I envy you for being able to have a place to spray :-)
But isn't finding a way around the setbacks a good challenge? Sometimes it also helps to step away for a day and do it on the next - even though I hardly have the patience for this =)
I think I'm FINALLY GETTING THERE! *the biggest sigh of relief you can imagine*
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After this coat is dry, I'll do the front touch up again and pray to the universe I'm done with it :D (The finishing time. I really enjoy the sanding, staining, detailling stuff, but man, this true oil finish is killing me)
Edit: Excuse the mess. My kitchen table looks horrible right now. My husband is the best, he let's me do what I want without freaking out :D
(Even though I think 2 half finished guitars occupying our kitchen is as far as I can go ;-) )
You should see that state of our house when I'm in full-on guitar making or refinishing mode. I've got six on the go at the moment and I daren't tidy up as I'll loose so many things!
His wife is a saint!Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Barden
That would be the only way I'd get away with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC
cheers, Mark.
Im grateful for a lab in which to hide all the various kits, project builds and random guitar parts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Barden
I have to set up and pack things away every time I work on a project. My electronics workbench is also my computer desk which I am using while working from home. Fortunately it only takes 5 minutes to set up, but it means I have to be super organised to keep parts from multiple projects separated (I have the FS-808, the Noisy Cricket amp, and a Rat on the go right now, plus my guitar). I do have a shed that I use for power tools and spray painting, but it's far too cold to sit out there at night with a soldering iron.
Yep me too, although I do have to tidy up every day as the space gets used for work and other endeavours and I can't think straight if things are cluttered. Towards the end of a build it's usually a big old mess.Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankenWashie