Looks ace!
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Looks ace!
Hi All,
After having a look at finish options for my body I have come across this product. This will be the first time that I am using a spray can and obviously there will be a learning curve. However, does anyone have a method that works for them when applying this or similar product? Or is there a comprehensive post detailing a method?
Hey FCD,
I believe it was Sonic who advised me to get this product, haven't started with the clear coat yet. I read different stories about the how to apply everywhere. I think I am going with applying thin coats twice a day and a light sand after coats, but this can all change if it does not go to plan :-).
Hi All,
Completed the fret level on my neck today. Might need to have a bit of a redo as I am not 100% happy with the outcome. Frets all over the place so I actually had some that flattened out fairly badly and dont know if I have them in a nice enough dome. Anyway will mull it over and may even see how it plays and do a redo after the guitar is together.
Hi their mate that will work fine I did a walk through how to do an acrylic lacquer finish you can find it in the link with some advice what to do from start to finish with a spray can over paint, dyes, stains or plain old clear over just wood page 4Quote:
Originally Posted by FCD
https://www.buildyourownguitar.com.a...hlight=Phrozin
Update:Quote:
I think I am going with applying thin coats twice a day and a light sand after coats, but this can all change if it does not go to plan :-).
Went with ca. 7 applications, where I went over the guitar twice. Sprayed the sides first, then had one side facing up gave that a coat. waited for about 15mins, turned her around and gave the otherside a coat. Repeated this every 1/2 hr to hour till I had about 7 coats.
I lightly sanded (400 grit) the headstock back yesterday, before giving it another couple of coats and the result is already stunning! For the body I need another can, haha.
Thanks for the share on your method Phrozin. Do you do all 15 coats in day?
Is this the standard amount the most people use here?
FCD,
re: Septone Ac Laq, that is my my preferred rattle can clear coat (I think Sonic Mountain's also).
I like it better than the Duplicoclor clear, but the Duplicolor base coats are fine IME.
I have had nothing but trouble with duplicolor. Of course it is very humid where I am....
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
You can if the weathers warm I usually do but it's really up to what you feel comfortable doing, just remember to allow for Flash off between your coats just take your time its not a race you should end up with a decent axe, have a bit of a look through I usually post what I did for different ones, I don't post much so if you get stuck or need to know something just pm me and ill try help you out 😎Quote:
Originally Posted by FCD
I use sca clear $11.99 have used it on every build I use a can the thing I really like is its cheap and doesn't bleach out, theres no real difference between them don't get caught up in brand crap all rattle cans use a retarder in them so there going to shine good out of the can, of course the best is with a gun and a medium to slow thinner is best but none are any different after the cut and polish I'm surprised Phil would say that but your welcome to see how mine turned outQuote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
I'm currently doing some stuff in .008 and .015 blue candy and candy apple red flake and candy apple powder to make up concentrate and red, blue and silver pearl powders and it's expensive stuff wasting it isn't an option and using sca clear as the medium its what I think about there branded paints 😁
https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/...100401#start=2
Hi All,
Thanks for all the advice. I now have a basic method that I can follow which is the main thing
Hi All,
Had a go at some clear coat on the guitar and waiting for a few coats to dry. I will try a few more coats in a couple of days. When I sand in between coats I will obviously get some Matt areas. Is the idea to get the whole guitar to have a Matt (level finish) or can I just give it a little scuff in between my coats and lay more clear on top? I am concerned about cutting through to the fabric if I try and level it out during the clear coat process.
Sanding between clear coats is mainly to remove dust and small balls of lacquer, so do it very lightly with 320 grit. I'd build up the lacquer depth considerably before sanding down flat. If you do sand through to the fabric then there's no coming back (unless it's under the scratchplate). And yes, you will want an even matt finish before you start polishing. No orange peel if you can help it, so hold the body up to a light at a shallow angle (so the light looks just like the sun coming up over the body) which will highlight any shiny pits still remaining that need further sanding to remove. If you still have shiny pits, then you still have a depth of lacquer over the fabric, so it's OK to keep sanding; but do it carefully. Do a little at time and keep checking.
Thanks for the tips Simon,
Great finishing advise there that I can use once I have applied all my clear coats. So I am guessing that when I sand in between my clear coats before I get to the finishing stage I am able to just lightly scuff the surface and lay more clear on top.
Yes. If you leave it a few days between coats, then some light sanding is recommended to help the finish stick. But within a few hours, there isn't much need as the solvent in the new coat is enough to stick it to the layer underneath as it hasn't had time to really harden.
Hi All,
Attached a few photos of my progress with clear coat. Starting to take shape but I will have a few drips to deal with once this has cured for a little while. May have another go and add a couple of coats to this as I am super concerned that I will cut through and hit the fabric. Then it’s game over and a complete restart. Any tips for knowing when I have enough clear on?
Hey FCD,
From my experience with surfboards, which is really similair:
- The smoother your product before finishing coats, the less likely you are to burn through.
- The more systematic you work, (i.e.: equal movements with every grid, equal number of strokes in every routine, equal pressure over your sanding block or hand) the more aware you are of what you are doing.
- Less experience translates to spending a bit more time with a higher grid to get the feeling.
From the experience of cutting back on my body after the second can, 2 weeks ago: I'd say if your body was smooth (no high spots) you should be able to get away with 2 cans. If it wasn't smooth like mine, 3-4 cans.
I felt like I had enough with 3 cans but added the 4th to be sure, as you say "Then it’s game over and a complete restart"
Asking this is basically asking how to tell when an egg is boiled medium-soft without the use of a timer.:)
The answer to which is to have multiple eggs in the saucepan, and take one out at regular intervals until you get one that's medium-soft. ;)
That fabric is an unknown quantity as to how many clear coats it takes just to fill up the pores in the fabric. You could try looking at the edge of the top surfaces by the cavities to see if you can see a depth of clear over the fabric. But you know that all the fabric is currently covered over, so I'd give it one more can on the top and then fully sand back.
Thanks for the advice Simon and Rolf,
Seems like I got ahead of myself. Had a look this morning and seemed to get some bubbling in the finish on the front. Looks like I will need to sand back and do a complete restart!
Was really angry for a moment or two but can’t change it now. Will probably give it a rest for a week or so before I totally sand it back and start again.
Hey FCD,
Bummer! Curious about the bubbeling though: Where do you think it came from, the fabric?
I do/did not think this was going to be of much influence on a guitar body, but when you glass a surfboard with epoxy, you do this on a decreasing temperature (afternoon) to prevent the material from "gassing" and turning it into a bubble castle. Do you think this might've been the reason?
Sorry for drawing this parallel, I am always curious how these things happen to prevent them from happening on future projects, because as you say, the make you....angry, for a moment
How much bubbling? Has it got too hot? I'd be tempted to leave it, wait until the finish hardens and then if it's not all over but just in small areas, locally sand down a bit and try and respray. You only really need to try and break the top of the bubbles open so that you can then fill them with (ideally thinned) clear coat.
Take your time. Certainly wait until you're calm and relaxed about it and just view it as something that needs to be fixed which you can do. It may be less work than you think.
Hi Simon,
There were multiple bubbles all in one area, I believe that it got to hot to quickly. Great advice as always! There are always compromises especially when you are adding some new skills and learning along the way but I have reached that point that this is one too many. I would rather sand it all back and start again. The biggest learning was how I cut the fabric and I could have done that much better.
Don’t get me wrong I am p****ed off, but this is one to many “fixes”. I am half tempted to sand back and try a different finishing method but then again I am stubborn so who knows.
You make your own mind up. It's whatever's right for you.
I've had so many setbacks with finishes that I'm surprised I haven't trashed at least one guitar. I know it's tempting to leave sprayed guitars out in the direct sun to dry, but they do get very hot and this does seem to encourage gas bubbles to emerge, or encourage reactions between the finish and maybe glue or impurities beneath it.
I am so this ^^. Madness has driven me to consider pulling out my Cursed black LP build.Quote:
Originally Posted by FCD
Madness, you say?
http://youtu.be/nLE13tPs0K0
Hi FrankenWashie,Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankenWashie
Not sure I can call this a cursed build yet but I am going to take this back down to wood and start to finish again. Guess if it doesn’t work the second time it might end up in the fire place :).
Hi All,
It’s been a while from my last post and there has been a lot that has happened in the build. In short sanding off the fabric top was a huge pain in the ass!!! If I would have had my time again I would have taken the advice to be patient and maybe fix the small bubbles. But what’s done is done....
I started the build again and re-bonded some fabric to the guitar body. I have divided to use wipe on poly instead for the finish. I liked how durable the finish was on my first guitar and additionally to that with enough coats I feel I can get a good gloss finish. At first I wanted to use a rattle can for the crystal clear coat and didn’t want the yellowing effect of the poly, however, given the variability in temp in Melbourne and the fact that my shed gets extremely hot I feel I will run into the same issues with the rattle. I also left the sides wood rather then bursting in the sides with black.
I have attached some photos of the guitars progress. This is with 5 coats of poly on front, sides and back. Edit: I also just realised that I changed the orientation of the fabric - not by design but is what it is now
Looking good. Wipe on poly is my finish of choice at the moment. You may need many coats. Got me thinking I’d like to do a fabric top, if I was going to do another kit.
Yep guessing that I will be wiping it on for a while. I will build it up over sometime - annoying this is I will be overseas late Jan so will have to take a back seat again. But until then I will continue to do some coats
So I have about 17 thin coats of wipe on now - it’s looking fairly streaky, however does have quite a nice gloss on it. Eventually I would like to cut this back to get a fairly glossy finish. While I know results may vary with wipe on poly but saying that any tips on how many coats before I start the finishing process.
It must be ready for a wet sand by now. 1200 grit, but take care. Half a dozen or so more coats, 1500 wet sand. Probably repeat half a dozen coats and 1500. Half a dozen 2000 wet sand. Repeat. Or something like that.
Hi All,
Have around 20 coats of poly on right now. Did a quick “level” sand with some 400 grit sand paper and still seem to have some considerable orange peel on this guitar.
I want to slowly start to get it a little flatter before I finish sand the guitar. So I’m thinking about 10 or so more coats and then repeat the process with some 400 grit or 600 Grit. I did start to follow DarkMarks advise with the 1200 grit but it didn’t achieve much in regards to leveling.
Open to thoughts on this
If you've got orange peel, then you need to keep sanding. And I'd use 240 grit until all the pits have gone and there aren't any bright dots showing when held up to the light at a shallow angle. Like any sanding process, if you aren't getting rid of the marks with what you are using, you need to go coarser.
Thanks Simon,
Great advise as always!!! I wanted to add a few more coats to ensure that I don’t sand through to fabric.
I will probably add a few more coats and follow your advise!
So have around 35 coats on this now and done a far amount of sanding. Still seems to be lots of orange peel (dimples) on the finish.
What’s the best method to use with wipe on poly to level this out? I did sand quite a lot and sanded through in one small spot so feel I need to build up more coats and then hit it again. Thinking maybe 20 coats(ish). Open to feedback on the best way to get this flat
Hey FCD.
I'm having trouble understanding how you're getting orange peel with a wipe-on finish.
Orange peel is typically a side effect of spraying (for a number of reasons).
You can get swirls or lines from wipe-on (just like brush marks when using a brush) but I've never seen orange peel.
Can you elaborate on your application technique and what products you're using?
I can't imagine getting sand-through with 35 coats. I've never done that many coats (maybe 24 or 5 max) and never had sand-through. I'm not trying to be critical, just trying to understand what's happening and how we can help.
Hey McCreed,
Orange peel may be a bad name for it / let’s call it dimples - it basically low spots within the finish. In may have been something to do with the fabric or the glue. I sanded fairly aggressively to try and flatten out the finish and get rid of the dimples. Hopefully the attached photo helps
My process is fairly simple - wipe on with a cotton patch folded over - thin coats. Same application as my first build which is totally flat and was easy to level
Ah, I see what you mean now.
Yeah, those dimples look pretty deep, almost like a bubble that formed and broke.
How extensive is it? Does it appear all over?
I only ask because if it's just a few small areas, maybe you could do drop-fills with CA, then level them out and polish.
There a few good how-to videos out there on drop-filling. Hope you find something that works for you.
You could also try drop-filling with thinned poly, though thin CA would be quicker. The poly's surface tension means it follows the contours of what's beneath it, it doesn't just sit and fill-in the hollows unless it's really, really thinned down. I know you're afraid of sand-through, but sanding back a large amount is really the best way to remove the dimples. I'd wait a few days after applying your last coat and then start sanding. Otherwise you can just build-up a deeper and deeper finish and never ever get rid of the dimples if you just keep applying more finish.