You've got to love the way he's precisely polishing the edges that are going to butt up against each other and be invisible... Sure you want to clean up burrs and file marks, but reason in all things.
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You've got to love the way he's precisely polishing the edges that are going to butt up against each other and be invisible... Sure you want to clean up burrs and file marks, but reason in all things.
Yeah, I didn't do that. I couldn't see an scratches when I put the tuners together, even though I only used the double-cut side of the flat file. I didn't have any serious burrs and polishing seemed like a lot of work with not much payoff. What did become clear is that the tuners are probably going to leave a mark in my heastock as they did on my jig...Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC
Attachment 36766
...which, of course, no one will see on the finished product. I have decided that neither invisible problem bothers me enough to do something about it ;-)
healthy attitude! :)
A little progress...
I managed to do the finish sanding an polishing to the neck, and then added the tuners.
Attachment 36885
Not the clearest pic, but the up close the bird's eye figuring in, particularly on the fingerboard, really comes out. Not a perfect finish, but I think I can live with it. Ironic how tempting it is to rush now, after putting the first touches of finish on this neck over 30 years ago. Most of the color in the neck is from that original finish that was very light and almost completely clear, but has yellowed dramatically over time. There is not a drop of stain or tint on this neck.
Is this what has happened to the original fender necks? Were they almost white when new, but have just yellowed with age?
Went to do final polish on the body...and it went badly. Once it was shiny it was clear that I had not gotten the finish flat enough. Will have to go back to 400 and start again. Is there anything I should do to get rid of the wax I used at the very end...or just be prepared to change the sandpaper often?... <sigh>
Why the wax? Never makes any sense to me. Naptha (lighter fluid) may help. Or kerosene and then naptha (to help remove the kerosene quickly).
The original 'clear' nitro lacquers were neither clear nor stable under UV. So they started off with a yellowish tint and got yellower as they aged. Some of those first 'TV yellow' guitars started out pretty white, but not for long after they were sprayed with clear coat.
Then almost clear UV-stable nitro came along, and whilst that was good for coloured bodies, it did make a lot of the necks look rather pale, so I suspect that some lightly tinted clear lacquer was then employed for consistency/continuity in looks.
Fender started using polyester undercoats in the late 60s, with nitro colour and clear coats over the top. But that then often ended up with a mixture of polyester and nitro on different parts of the guitar, so a neck could be all polyester apart from the headstock face which had nitro over the decal and yellowed with age, whilst the all-polyester neck stayed the same colour.
It wasn't until the early 80s that Fender switched from nasty thick Polyester + nitro finishes (which could be up to 1/10" thick!) to thinner all-polyurethane finishes. Now nitro on Fenders tends to be just on custom shop or special run guitars.
Somehow, Simon, I knew you would know the answer to my question about the original fender necks.
My mid-1970's Precision bass which has one of those super thick coats. Nasty yes, but it looked super cool to me when I was 19.
Meanwhile I have gone through all the Kübler-Ross stages and have settled on resignation, and am now resigned to continue sanding the body. I don't mind the sanding as much as the anxiety about sand throughs.
I would not call finish perfect. Maybe "close enough for jazz"?
Put the neck on today. It's beginning to look like this thing might someday be a guitar. I used the "stew mac" method of inserting a drill bit that was exactly the size of the holes in the body to put a dimple in the neck. I also used a drill press. Since the fretboard is radiused, it took me a while to figure out how to get the bottom of the neck to be totally perpendicular to the drill bit. Simplest way I could figure was to screw a 3/4" piece of wood to a flat 8"x12" plank. The piece of wood gave me perpendicular surface for the flat side of the neck to butt up against. I clamped the neck to the piece of wood so that it could not rock, and then clamped the plank to my drill press table. Worked like a charm. Holes in the perfect place, and perfectly perpendicular.
My other "innovation" was to dip the about 7-8mm of the pointy end of the neck screws into turtle wax. They went into the 1/8" neck holes like butter. I was looking around for candle wax, which I did not have handy, when I spied the turtle wax. I wasn't sure it would work, but figured it would not hurt either so why not? Turns out that it worked WAY better than the hard waxes I have used in the past.
None of these are great insights, but since I have not seen reference to them on the interwebs, I figured I'd post them FWIW. Mostly, I am just happy to have the neck on without incident so far.
I made a similar jig a couple of years ago for thicknessing neck heels with my Safe-T-Planer.Quote:
Simplest way I could figure was to screw a 3/4" piece of wood to a flat 8"x12" plank. The piece of wood gave me perpendicular surface for the flat side of the neck to butt up against. I clamped the neck to the piece of wood so that it could not rock...
I also use it for drilling mounting holes in the heel like you.
Sounds like the only difference on my jig is I have 2nd piece of timber mounted to the bottom board that pivots and "clamps" from both side of the fretboard.
I'll and post a pic later if I remember.
I'd like to see that. Makes me wonder if there shouldn't be a "jig" thread. I am guessing there is some pretty ingenious stuff--like the jig you just mentioned--that most of us have not seen before.Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
It's nothing flash, but it's worked for me. I had some MIC strat necks that were about 2mm thicker than genuine "F" necks, but the neck pockets on the bodies were correct depth, so rather than routing the pockets deeper, I chose to plane the neck heels down.
Here is the jig:
Attachment 37047
The whole thing can be clamped to the drill press table when drilling, or slid across the table when using the Safe-T-Planer.
The neck in the jig is already planed, drilled, finished, and fret levelled. Ready to go into the body in my other thread.
I just put it in the jig to demonstrate.
Maybe it does not have a lot of flash, but it is simple and effective. I have a number of less elegant versions of your jigs, for that reason.
I don't have enough time or patience to make a good looking jig. I don't have enough skill to go without one. So my favorite kind of jig is one I can cobble together quickly using "found objects" in my garage. Case in point is this monstrosity that I just threw together to mod a pickguard. It's made of a piece of old light fixture, a part of circle cutting jig from my router, and some boards my kids broke in Taekwondo, and a few clamps. Ugly as sin, but it works and took about 15 minutes to make
Attachment 37106.
It's called "Yankee Ingenuity". I like it!
Ha! I don't think my ingenuity is going to keep Dan Erlewine up at nights, but I'll take it ;-) What is the Aussie expression for that? I think whatever inventiveness I have comes from growing up in the middle of nowhere, where you figure out how to fix things with what you've got if you expect to get home. I am guessing that's true for a lot of places in Australia too...at least judging by all the jig ideas I've gotten from Aussies ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
New question...
I have a bone strat nut that was made by DB a long time ago. The bottom is curved to match the radius of the fingerboard (as is the bottom of the nut-slot in this Warmoth neck). It's too tall, so I need to take some of the height off. Slots have been started in it, so I don't want to take the height off the top, because I'll lose the slots. I can take it off the bottom using sandpaper taped to the top of the fingerboard. The question is how much to talke off?
When firmly in the nut-slot, the top of the nut is abut 4mm above the fingerboard in the center. Frets stand about 0.8mm above the fingerboard. So I am thinking that I should take about 1-1.5 mm off the bottom. Does that seem about right?
It's really a job for nut files, cutting the slots deeper and then fling the top of the nut down to suit. I doubt whether the slots are anything but guide slots, so probably are flat and not angled back towards the headstock.
It still amazes me that you cant get a decent set of nut files for 1/4 of the current price for a set of Hosco ones. But the Chinese just haven't picked up on the the idea of producing anything else but pretty dire nut file sets. They certainly have the technical capability to do so.
If you are going to take off the nut at the bottom, then it really depends on how deep the existing nut slots are - the height of the top of the nut is immaterial at this point.
Best to simply sit the nut in the slot, fit the strings and measure how far above the 1st fret the strings are on the high and low E strings. You'll need to come down by that distance less about 1/64" for the high E and 2/64" for the low E.
Which is why it's easier to use nut files, especially on a curved-base nut.
I'd try and find something cylindrical with a similar radius to the Fender neck (assuming it's a 9.5") and put some sandpaper on that. But it's a lot of sanding.
As you said, Simon, they are guide slots. I thought about filing the nut-slots to the proper depth and then sanding down the top. Part of the problem is that I don't have a decent set of nut files. This is my first guitar nut. I have done bass nuts, for which I used welding torch nozzle cleaners to cut the slots. Worked great for bass, so I got some for guitar... But for guitar they are, I think, not stiff enough...
https://hazeguitars.com/blog/cheap-alternative-to-guitar-nut-files
I have some cheap thin files, but not sure how I will do the cutting just yet. I have thought about inexpensive Chinese files, but have yet to see a decent review of them. Looking for an alternative to Hosco or StewMac prices.
I haven't found anything significantly cheaper.
Crimson Guitars once sold their own individual nut files so you could make up your own sets, but now they just do the Hosco ones I have.
You can get a set of 10 nut files (Hosco) in the US for $98.99 with free shipping.
That's a pretty small investment for something that's so useful IMO.
Philly Luthier
I also agree with Simon, that best method is top>down rather than bottom>up.
Alternatively, as you are primarily a bassist and may not need to set up any other guitars, get someone to cut the nut for you professionally as it will be cheaper.
Or ditch that nut and look at other cheap bone nuts you can get from Amazon or eBay. That’s what I use and they've been fine. And they are generally a lot closer to the ideal height. Just measure the slot width first and check dimensions. Avoid any listings without dimensions.
That captures my dilemma pretty well. I may need to do a couple of nuts for guitars, but it's unlikely that I'll do more than a few for myself. I did *think* about popping for the 100 bucks anyway as McCreed suggested, but the set was sold out, which led me to more thinking which inevitably leads me to more confusion.
So here goes. On closer examination I think the nut may be pre-slotted. I went back to the video that DB made on the pre-slotted nuts that PB was selling at the time, and saw where I got the idea to take some off the bottom:
https://www.buildyourownguitar.com.a...ead.php?t=4543
I had some correspondence with him about the nut, and his suggestion for the curved bottom was to tape some sand paper to the fretboard to sand off the amount needed, basically as in in the video. I have a bass neck that is the same radius but a little wider that should do reasonably well for this. It's not clear to me why this is such a bad idea?
Meanwhile, I keep seeing references on the internet to the use of feeler gauges with notches cut in them to cut nuts. Lot's of YouTube. Even the guy from Highline guitars refers to the approach (although, of course, he prefers a good set of files). Can't imagine this will be as good as Hosco or SM files. But if it's accurate albeit slow does it seem worth a try? Seems to me that if I treat the DB nut as potentially sacrificial, I have little to lose. Worst case scenario seems to me that I waste some time, and destroy a nut blank.
It is entirely possible that I will end up purchasing decent nut files at some point. Still... if there is a viable alternative that will work for a few nute, and that will not invite unwanted scrutiny of my visa card statements by my acountant/wife...
I understand your position better now. I didn't realise (or forgot) that bass is your main instrument, so can see how you'd be torn over the investment in files.
The DIY feeler gauge nut files do work, but making them (properly) is time consuming. However, you only have to do it once.
You can probably get where you need to be by working with both the nozzle cleaners and modified feeler gauges. (rough in with feeler gauge, clean up with nozzle reamer)
As for top or bottom of nut, really either is fine. It's more personal preference as well as what the end goal is. If you have a nut that's too high but already has perfectly cut string slots, it may make more sense to take off material from the bottom, whether radiused or flat.
Thanks! I am also a cheapskate. But I am pretty sure that if I botch this with the feeler gauges and nozzle cleaners, I'll be back shopping for the best price I can get on Hosco or other files.
Took a detour because only after I had the pickguard installed and strung the guitar up to begin setup, did I realize that I really should have tested the electronics first....
My travails with the 4-way rotary switch that changes the Humbucking/single-coil states are documented elsewhere. That was last night and this morning's adventure.
Earlier this week I realized that I had a problem with the Tele 3-way blade switch. On the neck setting the bridge pickup worked. On the bridge setting the neck pickup worked. On the middle setting *nothing* worked. Clearly this was the fiendish work of Dyslexia Man, my alter ego.
I had wired the switch backward and crosswise. My brain (not kidding about the dyslexia) may be wired similarly. As a result incorrect did not look that different than correct wiring to me. This why I meticulously color code and chart out my wiring diagrams. Once I had figured out and charted how the switch should actually look, it did not take long to put it in. In the process I also noticed that I had put in the cheap Tele switch copy I got as a "tester" rather than the Oak Grigsby that I intended to put in...so swapped that out as well as re-wired the switch.
As long as I was doing all this, I also took off the neck and fixed a little paint issue. There was just enough space where the neck and body come together on the "south" side of the neck that you could see where the paint ended on the neck rout, so I added a little color there.
I'll put the neck back on in a few hours and...hopefully...begin the set up.
While the neck and strings were on and I was getting something from the pickups I managed to play the guitar's first cord. It won't be playable without some work yet, but it was still cool to hear it's voice for the first time.
Hooray!
Progress is progress, even if you have to take a few steps back on the journey to do so.
I have badmouthed Warmoth a number of times, but I have to give them their due on the neck they sold me back in the 1980s. When I went ran my rocker up and down the neck to find out how much fret leveling I would need to do...the answer was none. the frets were all perfectly level. Also, they were crowned and polished beautifully. The neck and fingerboard are also bird's eye maple with no skunk stripe. I'll try to get pics that do it justice when I am done.
I managed to crack the finish a bit under when I put the string retainers on, but they cover it up, so I will live with that. Also wish I had strung it up before putting on the decals. It's not terrible, but I'd orient them a bit differently if I had it to do again. The only way to fix that now would be to paint the headstock like the body and re-finish the top with a new decal. Not doing that--at least not any time soon.
I strung up the guitar (I guess I can call it that now), and adjusted the truss rod and the height at the bridge. I tuned to an open E and tried some tone caps, finally settling on a .033 uF. Then drilled the final two holds for the jack plate and closed it up.
The strings are WAY too high at the nut. I have been dreading fixing that, so it was not hard to leave this part for last. I started to sand the bottom of the nut, and suddenly saw the wisdom of what Simon and McCreed have been trying to tell me about cutting down from the nut slots.
I did not buy nut files, but will go back to considering it if I kill this nut. It's natural colored, whereas my bone blanks are white, which will go well the pickguard if this goes poorly, I tell myself. I cut some teeth into feeler gauges as I have seen done on YouTube. Completely went through two Dremel cut off wheels in the process.
I'd be crossing my fingers for this last part, but it's too hard to hold my improvised nut-saw-feeler-gauge when I do.
Just cut the slot for the high E string. The top of the string dropped from the top of the nut (or just slightly under) to 2.5mm from the top of the nut. Not sure why the blank was so high.
The slots cut in replacement nuts are primarily there as guide for the string-to-string spacing. There's no universal set depth because it can vary from instrument to instrument.Quote:
Just cut the slot for the high E string. The top of the string dropped from the top of the nut (or just slightly under) to 2.5mm from the top of the nut. Not sure why the blank was so high.
Even the production guitars from Fender or Gibson will cut them higher than optimum as a workable, but safe, depth.
It's a lot easier to adjust the slots down than come up. (via either filling, shimming or replacing)
Did an initial setup. The serrated feeler gauges work to make the nut slots, but are slow. Took me two days working a little at a time. Still need to sand down the top of the nut, polish and glue it. That said the guitar is playable and I could not resist the pic.
Couldn't resist taking a pic, tho. I had purchased the paint before seeing the "Stato Tele". I got the case for it in 1987. So the similarities are coincidental, if strikingQuote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
Attachment 37326
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One question... The grub screws for adjusting the saddle hight are sort of sharp and cut into my palm when I rest it there. What do real Strat players do about that (if anything)?
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Looks great!
Don't know if you mentioned it already but, what is the control set up with the 3 pots? Master volume plus tone for each pickup?
There's a couple of remedies for this. One is simply buying shorter grub screws. The other is cutting down the long ones.Quote:
The grub screws for adjusting the saddle height are sort of sharp and cut into my palm when I rest it there. What do real Strat players do about that (if anything)?
My method has always been shorter grub screws, but if you decide to shorten the existing ones, you can do it with a dremel and cut-off wheel. Just cut from the "bottom" end and round off the cut end a bit either with a file or use the dremel wheel like a grinder.
Note: if you buy new ones and the bridge is an "import" model (metric) the screws will be M3. If it's MIA (imperial) they'll likely be either #4-40 or #4-48 thread.
I'll order some shorter grub screws. Thanks for the specs!
The pots are like a Tele. Top is master volume, bottom is master tone.
The middle is actually a 4-way rotary switch. The pickups are dual rail humbuckers (GFS Lil' Punchers). The top setting is H+H, bottom setting is both pup in single coil. The two middle settings are S+H and H+S.
On the rotary all single coil settings are north coil, so I also put a push-pull on the tone control to switch the S+S setting from N+N to N+S to give it a humbucking single coil mode.
I thought the rotary would look more natural on a Strst pickguard than mini-switches. I also thought it would keep the controls somewhat intuitive.
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D'oh!!!Quote:
The middle is actually a 4-way rotary switch.
I knew that! I just forgot, and was too lazy to read back through :o.
Interesting configuration. How do you find the "split" sounds? I've heard people say rail HB's sound a bit anaemic with just one rail.
Well I have just started to play it, and may have a better idea later on. I have heard the same thing about rail pickups, particularly the Bill Lawrence or Joe Barden Tele pups that are really trying to sound like a Tele. The Lil'punchers are supposed to sound more like a humbuckers, and so far I think they pretty much do. Singke coil mode is not as hot, but sounds more like an actual Tele. I think I will use both H+H and S+S settings.
I probably could have skipped the SC+H and H+SC modes. The SC can't keep up with the H. I could also have skipped traditional N+N single coil mode. The difference between N+S and N+N in single coil mode is barely audible.
That's a first impression we'll see how I feel after I have played it a while.
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I put the new set of shorter screws in the bridge two days ago. I put a final-ish tweek on the setup. I am declaring this build complete.
Attachment 37451
Attachment 37452
Attachment 37453
I started this in the spring of either 1986 or 1987 in my mother's driveway with a can of some sort of satin finish that I put on the neck and body before storing it away until I could get back to it.
I believe the record is now set at 33 years.
One semi-interesting detail, is that the color of the neck was as white as the raw PB maple neck I got recently, and I really did not notice a change when I sprayed a very light clear finish on it. The yellowing is entirely aging. Not sure it's the way I recommend getting some color on maple, but effective.
One nicest things about the guitar visually is the lovely bird's eye figuring in the fingerboard and the abalone dots.
Attachment 37454
Aside from that it is very simple. It is not a lefty because I wanted "Hendrix string tension," as one of my friends observed. It is a lefty neck because that's what was on sale. If you look closely you can see the treble side dots on the neck. Those are original. I added dots to the bass side, something Hendrix probably did not need to do.
I can't remember why I got a hard tail. It was either to keep things simple or because they had a poplar hardtail body on sale.
I wanted to keep things as simple and clean as possible. The only exception is the switching. The middle "pot" is actually a four way switch which puts the rail humbucker pickups in H+H, S+H, H+S and S+S modes. There is push-pull switch on the tone pot that switches the S+S mode from traditional to humbucking mode.
Deets:
-- Bone nut from DB
-- Gotoh vintage (Kluson-style) machines
-- GFS Lil' Puncher (Modern Vintage) pickups
-- Oak Grigsby 3-way blade switch
-- Bourns master volume and tone pots, the latter with a DPDT push pull switch
-- 4-way, 3-gang rotary switch that somehow made it into my box of parts, I know not when or how, but it looked like decent quality...
-- Dragonfire custom cut pickguard
-- Pure Tone jack
-- Not sure on the brand of the string trees, bridge, strap-buttons or jackplate. I know they were inexpensive and nothing fancy, but seemed like decent quality.
It was originally going to be dark blue with a drawing of a spaceman on it that my oldest daughter made. I had logo drawn to make this an "Astrocaster" but she could not find the drawing I remembered. My son, meanwhile liked the "Bali Green" color...which had more of a surf vibe. So my youngest daughter, who is practicing her graffiti style made me an "Aquacaster" logo. Not sure I am crazy about the way I got it aligned, but my daughter thinks it's cool. After three daughters, my experience is that when your 15 year old says something is "cool" you should stick with it, because you may never hear that again.
So have you poured lighter fuel over it and set it alight yet, Mr hendr3x? ;)
Well done for persevering. Looks great. I can't say that it's totally unique, because Fender/Squier have done so many mash-ups of different guitars in limited runs in recent years and it looks like a couple of them (IIRC), but you did get there first, so you can stick your flag on it and claim it for fender3x.
My youngest daughter thinks this is cool. Definitely not setting it on fire.
I think you are right, Simon. I am not sure there is any configuration starting with a Strat body that hasn't been tried by someone. If you look at one of the early McCreed posts on this thread, I am not even certain this one's all that unusual.
That said, I suspect there are so many variations because it's hard to improve on the combination of comfort and cool of this body style. You really have to hand it to Leo Fender for coming up with something timeless.
Looks great! And the "Anachronistic" is a nice touch!
Yeah, it's because of this (or maybe lack of imagination) I have not strayed very far from the conventional. I also have never been attracted to odd shaped or pointy guitars. I must be boring...Quote:
That said, I suspect there are so many variations because it's hard to improve on the combination of comfort and cool of this body style. You really have to hand it to Leo Fender for coming up with something timeless.
Thanks!
I don't think it's a lack of imagination so much as that it is really difficult to improve on. I can't think of many things that have been sold virtually unaltered for 66 years. Even less where 15 year olds have looked at it and said "that's cool!" in every one of those years.Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
Correcting a couple of profile issues...
I really liked the Raytheon knobs that I used on this build. I used Raytheons on the my first build (an ESB-4) to give it a little different-than-the-rest look. Plus the Raytheons are really high quality. I had the same thing in mind for this build. I liked the look, but I kept whacking the volume knob when I strummed. So I started to look for more traditional, low profile strat-type knobs. I found some chromed metal ones on eBay with set screws. You can see the difference in profile here.
Attachment 38011
Old knob is on the left. New knob is installed. Actually needed to file off a bit of the tops of the shafts to get the knobs to sit right--a process that took about 15 min. Now I understand why strats have the low profile knobs! It doesn't completely eliminate the issues of the knob getting in the way of aggressive strumming, but it is quite a noticeable improvement.
The other profile issue is with the switch. In my case, since I used Tele pups, so it's a three-way Oak Grigsby. In the bridge position I found it annoyingly easy to hit the switch. On the interewebs I learned that hitting the switch and changing the setting unintentionally is a fairly common thing among Strat players.
I noticed that if I took the tip off the switch I stopped hitting it unintentionally. So I set about lowering the profile of the switch. I noticed that the slot in the tip was actually longer than the tang on the switch. A few minutes with some sandpaper on the bottom of the of the tip allowed me to lower the tip by a good 5mm or so. This makes it both shorter and lower (closer to the pickguard) in the bridge position. Here's a pic of what an original tip looks like and the one I sanded down.
Attachment 38012
In the closeup the bottom of the sanded tip looks uneven, but this is not noticeable in real life.
Taken together, I think I like the look of the new knobs, and there is no noticeable change in the look of the switch...so mission more or less accomplished ;-)
Attachment 38013