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Simon, thank you for the help! You have been a real life saver for me on this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Barden
Looks like I am back to rebuilding shims! Can't say I'm excited to make more shims, but I'm glad I got an answer on this before gluing anything together. Hopefully this next round will go smoothly and I'll get a perfect fit.
Once again, thank you Simon!
SHIM - THE FINAL CHAPTER
Finally made a shim that worked! It was a hellish ordeal. It took me about 10 different attempts to get the right height, angle, etc. Each attempt took me the better part of an hour. By the end I was ready to snap - just like several of the shims did.
But eventually, I got it made!
THICK END:
https://i.imgur.com/xJyMk1Ll.jpg
THIN END:
https://i.imgur.com/AwHtYbkl.jpg
And finally I glued it into the neck pocket.
GLUING:
https://i.imgur.com/0XE9qivl.jpg
HOW TO:
I'm sure there is an easier way to do this, but if anyone stumbles into this thread looking for info, here's what I did.
First I cut pieces of Maple veneer to the shape of my neck pocket, giving myself an extra inch on the end that sticks out of the pocket.
SHIM BLANKS:
https://i.imgur.com/aj6W6B8l.jpg
Next I cut, stacked, and glued pieces of the veneer until I had a staircase of sorts.
STAIRCASE OF VENEER:
https://i.imgur.com/j0L9D7gl.jpg
Then I sanded it down until I had the right shape - A wedge.
This part needs to be done slowly with a level sanding block.
Go too fast and you will break the shim.
I started with 80 grit to remove the steps, sanding across the ridges.
I then moved to 220, and 320 to get the shim on the proper angle, sanding down the length of the shim.
The goal was to have a shim that would make contact with the pocket and the neck the entire length of the pocket.
This took a lot of patient sanding and checking constantly as I worked.
One thing I screwed up several times was that after sanding my shim it was too thin.
In the end I ended up building my staircase a lot higher to give me room to sand it down and finesse the angle.
I wanted my shim to taper to a paper thinness. To accomplished this I clamped it to a board and used a sanding block. Gently sanding in one direction, carefully applying very little pressure until it was razor-like. I took a lot of patience to make sure the sides were the same thickness as the middle. A digital calliper was really helpful through out this process.
CLAMPED IN TO SAND:
https://i.imgur.com/t0LNl00l.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/YhNnmCvl.jpg
Anyway, that's what I did and although it was a pain, I eventually ended up with the perfect shim for this project.
Hopefully this can help someone else in the future.
STAINING:
After watching many-a-youtube video and reading forums on mandolin building sites I decided to attempt a color burst stain.
I really wanted to do a spray burst but I live in an apartment so rattle cans were a no go. It's also winter and there's a foot of snow outside so that wasn't an option either.
Basically I was left with wood dyes. And seeing as I already had some it was a no brainer.
And then I had an amazing idea!
I picked up a professional spray bottle. Essentially a fancy plant sprayer.
https://i.imgur.com/9sR5hgnm.jpg
I tested it with water and was amazed. It created a very fine mist. I instantly knew it would be perfect and would allow me to mist my dyes and create an awesome sprayed burst effect.
And wow, was I ever wrong.
Total nightmare.
If anyone is considering trying this, I urge you to rethink. The results were terrible. And it created a huge mess.
I am very glad I tested it out on a piece of pine instead of the actual guitar. Seriously. Don't do this. I am an idiot.
HAND RUBBED BURST
At this point I knew my only option was a hand rubbed burst.
I had Black, Mahogany Brown and Amber to work with.
THREE COLORS:
https://i.imgur.com/36jSidpl.jpg
I practiced several times on plywood. And eventually I managed this burst-ish effect:
https://i.imgur.com/o8uRnepl.jpg
(Ignore the weird mess on the right side - it was glue in the wood)
It wasn't great, but it gave me enough confidence to give it a go.
I taped off the binding first:
https://i.imgur.com/x6G0PcUl.jpg
And then I watched many more youtube videos of other people doing it because I was scared I was gonna screw it up.
My final results are not perfect, but I am happy with what I got. And I learned a lot.
One thing I noticed that is worth mentioning -- The colors on the Ash wood reacted A LOT different than they do on maple or pine.
That said, I'm still pleased.
These pics are of the stain after it dried. It looks a lot nicer wet and the browns pop a bit more.
FRONT:
https://i.imgur.com/TbnEXQ9l.jpg
BACK:
https://i.imgur.com/k2IrHycl.jpg
Still need to do the neck. Did a little test area and it seems color matching is gonna be a bit of an issue. I guess I'll find out soon.
Rook, you are doing some amazing work man.
Making the shims sounds like a right ordeal but well done for sticking with it to get it just right. You should reap the benefits in having a bass that is great to play.
And that finish looks brilliant!
Seconded. Great work on the shim and an outstanding rubbed stain burst.
@Simon Barden and @Gary B thanks for the encouraging words! Much appreciated!!
Took a go at staining the neck this eve. Not too pleased with the results. I only sanded to 220, but it seems like the stain doesn't want to soak in.
I'm gonna sand it back and take another stab at it tomorrow.
In the meantime, it's got me thinking about the fret board.
Two thots--
1.) how should I treat this blackwood material? I think I read the usual lemon oil is not a good idea on this material. Is there something else I should use?
2.) A bigger question -- Been toying with the idea of adding a coat of poly to the fretboard to make it glossy like many of the 4001/3's I've seen. Is there anything about blackwood/engineered rosewood that would make this a bad idea?
Thanks!
Great work Rook - the shim is great (even if it was a pain), and the burst is really excellent.
As it's a Ric-alike, I'd go for a gloss on the fingerboard. I can't see any reason not to, as most of the fingerboards on unbound necks will have clear-coated sides.
The Blackwood Tek necks on my two current builds are a bit rough feeling as they come, so I've been sanding them smooth for a much better feel.
The Blackwood Tek material is supposed to have a stable moisture content and minimal shrinkage, so probably won't benefit from anything on it like lemon oil as it shouldn't dry out (as most of the wood fibres are encased in a resin).
Thanks, JohnH! Much appreciated. It's a bit darker on the edges than I was hoping for, but it's growing on me. In some ways it's the guitar/wood itself that makes the final decision on how it'll look. And I'm cool with that.
Holy moly this is marvellous!
Great work on the burst!
Thanks @Sonic Mountain much appreciated!
Thanks for the kind words, @Bass Guy!
NECK STAIN
Working on matching the stain on the neck to the body. This wood has been stubborn in ways I was not expecting. Pretty hard to get the wood to accept the stain!
But I beat it into submission! Sorta. I sanded back, even applied a wood prep for water based stain.
Still not super excited with the results on the headstock, but I'm digging the back of the neck.
And as my awesome girlfriend pointed out - i"m loving doing all of this... so yeah, sometimes I'm annoyed, but still having fun. And I'm stoked to have found this forum with so many people enthusiastic about their builds and willing to share their knowledge. I'm a big lurker, and constantly inspired by the stuff I see you all are doing!
HERE'S MY NECK STAIN:
https://i.imgur.com/Jzy0Ifol.jpg
ANOTHER PIC:
https://i.imgur.com/LGRgxWfl.jpg
ALSO... as a weird side bar--
I had some left over maple veneer so I decided to make some wooden picks.
https://i.imgur.com/u4Ammill.jpg
The HOW TO was simple -- I glued 3 pieces of veneer cross grain. Sanded and shaped.
WORK IN PROGRESS:
https://i.imgur.com/tVqohUfl.jpg
Just a fun little side project and thought I'd share. I tried one out at practice tonight and it worked great.
Great job so far Rook!
Thanks man! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Fretworn
I just want a rad instrument, ya know? In any case, I'm enjoying the process and learning new stuff.
A great stain job on the neck. You've done some really good fading/blending. It's going to look even better with some clear finish coats on it.
It's a bit late to mention it now, but it is better to leave the parts of the neck heel that need to be glued unstained. You certainly want to mask those areas off before you add any clear coats. You'll want to clear coat one or two mm past the join lines, but no more.
You'll probably need to rough-up the parts of the neck heel to be glued with some coarse sandpaper before you glue the neck on.
I knew this and still made the mistake. Not sure what happened actually - I had it marked with pencil, but accidentally went too far while focusing on the blending. I hope I haven't created a problem for myself. I really should have taped it off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Barden
I sanded it back a bit, but don't want to lose too much wood either.
I'll definitely rough it up before gluing. Hope this doesn't create too an issue down the line.
I don't think it's too big an issue, certainly not compared to putting a gloss finish on.
So I have a weird problem....
After letting my stain dry for about a week I started to apply some Tru oil.
I've done this in the past with no problems, but this time the stain is bleeding.
Perhaps bleeding is not the right word. Blending together perhaps.
The black edges are nearly gone and the light colored middle part of the burst has gone brown.
At this point it's starting to look like I stained it a single color.
Pretty disheartened at the moment. Likely going to sand it back and try again.
But any idea where I went wrong?
I'm really sorry to hear this rook it was looking so good.
I dont know enough about staining to know why this would happen but I am sure you will find away to recover the situation.
Good luck with it.
I'm only on my first Tru-Oiled kit, but it was noticeable that even after using the Tru-Oil sealer, the Tru-Oil itself was picking up stain from the top which was visible in runs over the binding. I am only using a single colour, so it had no real impact on me.
The oil itself is a solvent so any stain pigment is likely to be partially absorbed by the oil and redistributed as you rub it.
I suppose you have to be prepared for this with the first couple of applications and with a burst 1) work from the centre out to the sides, so that you are moving a lighter pigment over a darker one 2) use a new part of your cloth each time you add more oil so you don't rub darkened oil into a light area and 3) don't rub it it hard - apply to the surface, wipe it on (centre to edge) and leave it be.
Thinking about it, although it doesn't seem a natural thing to do, you'd probably be best leaving small gaps between each wipe, so that you aren't dragging TO that has had a chance to absorb some stain over the rest of the body and blending it together. Then once the TO is dry, then go back and wipe oil in-between the gaps only. Maybe repeat this a couple of times before you start doing the whole body. Once there are a couple of coats on, you shouldn't get any significant colour leaching.
This I did not know. Thanks again, Simon. You're super helpful dude. And as always, I appreciate your help!Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Barden
I've only ever used true oil on single colours, and it's always been great. I see now that the solvent itself was likely helping smooth out my stain work. Live and learn.
I'm really dreading having to start from zero on this stain. I'm gonna spend some time today to see if I can sand back where the highlights were supposed to be. Hopefully it is salvageable. If not, well I guess it's back to square one.
I suppose the worst case scenario is that I end up having to do another burst. Not so bad. Doing the first one was super fun.
Back at it!
Thanks man, it is a little upsetting. But hey, I've learned something new so it wasn't a total loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary B
I'll do what I can to salvage it. Gonna take it really slow with sandpaper and see if I can pull off the true oil and re-sand the burst.
If that doesn't work I'll redue the whole thing with the knowledge that I learned doing it the first time. If that's the case, it'll probably turn out even better.
At least that is what I am telling myself!
A few hours ago I was a whining baby about the whole thing. All part of the process.
Thanks again for the support, Gary!
Do you dare take a photo of the Tru-Oiled top for reference?
Sorry for the slow update. Came down with a cold and it sidetracked everything until I felt better. Which I do!Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Barden
So, I'm back at it. Sadly I didn't take a pics of the brown mess I created. But there was not much to see other than a guitar that was basically all diarrhea brown.
I ended up sanding back the centre area to the wood.
https://i.imgur.com/tgfERZFl.jpg
This pic makes it look a lot darker on the edges than it was.
I then started reapplying tru oil using Simon's advice, staring from the centre out, carefully keeping the regions separate.
After about 4-5 coats, the amber colour of the Tru Oil was making the ash darker than I wanted.
I think this was actually a big source of my problem. I've used tru oil in the past, but only on maple. Although it adds a bit of amber to the maple, it is nothing compared to what it does to the ash. The ash goes turns very brown.
I suppose I could have used a light wood filler underneath, but I wasn't eager to re-sand again so I tried another technique--
I ended up mixing some of my powdered Mahogany and Black aniline dyes into some of the true oil to darken it up.
https://i.imgur.com/m9dHiaBl.jpg
I let it sit for about 8 hours to let the dye dissolve.
I applied the tinted Tru Oil around the edges. At first there was no result, but after about 5 coats, it started to show. I continued adding coats until I had a contrast that I was happy with. It's not quite as blended as I had originally wanted, but I'm still pretty happy with it!
Here's how it currently looks:
https://i.imgur.com/bpA7uWXl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/3qVCLJvl.jpg
I doubt the tinting the tru oil is the preferred method, but it's worked for me in this scenario. And at this point I am just using the regular tru oil over the whole top.
Starting to wet sand between coats now and it's starting to look pretty decent I think.
I feel my last couple of posts have been kinda downers so I wanted to share something a bit more fun.
And what could be more fun than volume and tone knobs?
The knobs that came with this kit are solid knobs, but I wanted something a bit different. I ordered a couple different sets of 8 sided knobs from Ebay. Similar in style that you see on Rick basses. But somehow I ordered the wrong size. Even after measuring. Twice!
The first set was way too small and the second set was hilariously huge. I guess I'm the Goldilocks of knobs.
So onto something else...
I noticed on some vintage Ricks they were using diamond shaped knobs and I really liked the look. They call them Oven Knobs, I think.
I didn't find anyone selling them, but I did come across a cool 3D model that someone had made and posted on Thingiverse that looked similar.
My local library has 3D printers so I went and tried them out.
Here they are mid print:
https://i.imgur.com/V5BZA9Dl.jpg
Here they are raw from the printer:
https://i.imgur.com/PERcSaal.jpg
I tried tested different colours - pearl, white, and silver.
https://i.imgur.com/RKXdEYBl.jpg
In the pic above you can see the green tape on the knob top. That was done to all of them prior to painting.:
And here they are painted:
https://i.imgur.com/CaZVOaJl.jpg
Awesome. 3D printers are great fun.
Yeah. I wish I had one at home! Started mocking up a custom truss rod cover. That's my next 3D project. Hopefully it'll work out!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Mountain
ALSO-- your sea foam Jazz Master is a work of art. Wow. Amazing work! Been using that thread as a way to convince my bandmate to do a build of his own. Great work. Looks fantastic.
Cool knobs. Do they stay on the spit shaft pots OK with just a regular round hole for them? It looks like the shaft hole was designed-in rather than drilled afterwards.
I only tested one, but it worked okay. The guy who made the model designed the hole to be undersized. To make them fit I had to slowly enlarge the hole until I had a tight fit. Was a bit of extra work, but functioned in the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Barden
TRUSS ROD COVER AND LOGO:
I've been experimenting with a truss rod cover that I could 3D print.
Luckily I came across a model on Thingiverse that I could use as my starting place as I have very little 3D modeling experience.
I had to resize it to fit the pitbull RCA-4 headstock, but that wasn't too difficult.
I then designed the logo I wanted on the cover. Here's the logo I made in illustrator - the inspiration for the design is pretty obvious. :D
https://i.imgur.com/wnEd1XOl.png
Ravi is my first name, hence "Ravibacker".
I then imported the illustrator SVG file into Fusion 360, extruded the text, and combined it with the model I found on Thingiverse.
https://i.imgur.com/TFu7Zzql.png
I chose Fusion360 because it was free to download and use. It's fairly easy to use, but I'm new to the program so it took me way longer than it should have.
Once I was happy with the design, I exported the file and took it to the library to print it out.
Here it is at various stages:
Fresh from the 3D printer:
https://i.imgur.com/X95ko0Fl.jpg
Trimmed and mid sanding to smooth it out:
https://i.imgur.com/MJr3lD5l.jpg
And painted:
https://i.imgur.com/Aj8xJhsl.jpg
Paint job is a bit sloppy, but it looks pretty good in my opinion.
But here's the kicker -- I messed up the dimensions! I forgot that the tuners have a ring that lines the tuning peg holes. The ring is actually pretty wide which means this truss rod cover I made was too fat to fit. Pretty funny thing to discover right when I finished.
Oh, well... Back to make alterations!
All said and done, if I can get the size right I think it'll look pretty fun.
That is super cool! Great idea.
Yeah that's really cool. I haven't tried fusion 360, might have to have a look.
I started out using Rhino 3d which I found really good. It has similar add/subtract and aligning tools to illustrator so it was pretty natural. The project I'm helping with has switched to 123D Design now which isn't too bad.
Nice work. Can you simply sand it down to size, or will you have to re-print the whole thing?
Thanks, Simon! I tried to sand it down, but I had printed it at only 20% infill so as I sanded it revealed a weird lattice work of plastic. Not a nice look. The next one I will print will be solid so I can sand as needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Barden
Learning as I go!
I haven't heard of Rhino3D or 123D thanks for the tip. I'll check them out. Fusion 360 is good, but it would be nice to find something that had less of a learning curve.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Mountain
Thanks, Pablo!Quote:
Originally Posted by pablopepper
More great work rook, well done. Taking your build to another level!
I had never thought about 3D printing being used for something like this but I reckon there would be a very healthy market for it if someone wanted to produce these sort of custom parts (hint:-))
LOL! Hint taken! Thanks Gary!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary B