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Hello Fretworn. I dyed the rest of the body last night so the whole body is black apart from the top (and the white binding.)
I do require some expert input right now please.
Firstly,
I have not sanded the top at all. I did give it a fairly heavy going over with 0000 steel wool yesterday, especially in the middle. The question is, can I confidently lightly sand the top with say 1200 grit dry without going through the laminate?
I am in 2 minds about this as I think it will look good as it is but most likely better if I get it right with sanding it back and hitting it with some more red.
I sanded the sides and rear with 320 before dying it. I am not sure if I should sand that again before the tru-oil?
Decisions decisions.
Chris
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1200 grit is polishing level, so you won't do much veneer thinning with it unless you use it for a very long time. The dye is alcohol based, so shouldn't have raised any grain that needs sanding, but there's nothing stopping you running over lightly with the 1200 grit to catch any loose fibres that may still be sticking up.
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http://i.imgur.com/XBGQrsJ.jpg
After the first round of standard Tru-oil on the top. It looks like I am going to have to go at the binding again!
Chris
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That happens. The good thing is, you have a brilliant looking top going there!
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I used Angelous Dyes on my last refinished guitar.
The same colours as well haha.
After using the dye i sprayed a sanding sealer on the body of the guitar and after that just a couple of layers of nitro.
Didnt have to worry about the binding or anything like that.
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Oh my that looks amazing. Absolutely convincing me that I should do an MM-1 kit for myself haha
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It's getting there.
I was going crazy as the Tru-oil was getting sucked up by the quilted maple like you wouldn't believe. Within 10mins of applying a thick coat it was gone. Finally, after another thick rub-in last night, this morning only half of it had disappeared. So, this afternoon I gave it a shot with the Tru-oil aerosol and it has almost all remained on top bar a couple of spots that are more exposed (open grain). She's quite rough, but I'll do another coat with the can in a few hours and then wait a couple of days at least before tackling the binding and giving it a light sand.
What I found out was that I really should have laid a coat of sanding sealer first to avoid all the fun I've had with the Tru-oil so far. The excess dye on the top of the timber kept coming off when applying the TO and then onto the freshly scraped binding. On the plus side, the black edges seem to have lightened off and the red is coming through more nicely. It is much, much darker than originally planned, but it was my own fault. If I don't tell anyone, they'll still think it looks good and it was suppose to be dark. LOL
Chris
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Rather than use a sanding sealer, there is the purpose designed Tru Oil sealer and filler https://www.birchwoodcasey.com/Refin...er-Filler.aspx. It says that if your wood is stained, you'll need to use this before using the normal Tru Oil.
I've never used Tru Oil, so I have no idea whether their sealer keeps the stain where it was, but I would assume so. It doesn't appear to be particularly pleasant stuff, so you should wear gloves and a vapour mask when applying. I don't know how compatible a normal sanding sealer would be with Tru-Oil.
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.....interesting. Regardless, it is all working now. I'll probably still just go directly with the black back and sides too but I might go straight with the aerosol this time.
Chris
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At least the Tru-Oil is well and truly integrated with the wood, so it's not likely to ever peel off!
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So, I have a pretty big issue. Nothing seems to run smoothly here.
I have discovered the hard way that Tru-oil, (probably more likely the spray only), doesn't agree with the Angelus black dye! It turns a copper brown colour! I believe that if I had have used some sort of sanding sealer first that it would have been okay. maybe even Simon's suggestion of the Tru-oil sealer.
As the coats on the front began to dry, the black on the edges of the top started to turn from black into a dirty chocolaty brown colour.
My only option now is to sand back without sanding too far and try to get the red in over the top. I will have to order some more red now as I knocked the bottle over the other day and lost pretty much all of it.
I confirmed the issue by spraying the back and low and behold, I have a nice coppery brown finish on the back. I am going to go with it on the back and sides as it looks kinda cool but not on the top with the red. LOL
This is not going to plan all of a sudden.
Chris
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Sorry to hear that Chris. This sort of thing makes me think we need a sticky "learnings" thread, so other can learn from the unfortunate mistakes of others.
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Oh no that's terrible news that top was great
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I have been working on the back and sides for a few weeks now and I am making some progress. I have had all the spray nozzles clog on me and I am waiting on some replacements in the mail so I can get on another decent coat of Truoil.
Chris
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Very shine headstock. Only one thing; I see that the tunerhole of the A tuner is not in line with the rest of the tuners on that side. You can see it clearly if you take a look at the second picture and put a ruler to the screen next to the straight sides.
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Shame about the dye - as we often say here - test on scrap when ever you can.
The neck looks great - is that a crack in the face of the headstock or just the light?
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Stan, it's not a crack, it's grain fortunately.
Yes Kick you are correct and I knew that. It makes one think how the factory workers can't drill 4 holes straight in a row. Or maybe they just don't give a toss? I came to the conclusion that it would be difficult for me to fill and re-drill that hole than just leave it and forget it. I had almost forgotten it and hadn't noticed for a while until you just reminded me LoL The instrument is for my own enjoyment and a slightly off line tuning peg won't affect the sound or playability of it even if it's kinda annoying.
I haven't given up on the finish on the body just yet. Don't write me off, I still have some time to make it right.😀
Chris
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That's the spirit. Anyways can't wait to see it done. I love the color and that style of axe..
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On all of my 5 builds they have inline tuners and not one guitar has them perfectly aligned with some out by a fraction and others a couple of mm. Just gotta do your best with what the factory dishes up as mostly they are not too bad.
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I'm sorry Christodav for bringing it up. I'll never going to mention it again ;)
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http://i.imgur.com/inE9bou.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/XUyLvx4.jpg
Not the exact result I was looking for at the start, but I am growing to quite like it and that's all that matters when all is said and done.
I sanded it back and then re-applied a coat of red dye.It seems to be sitting well after this coat of Tru-oil. I was so worried about going through the quilt, but it seems that I did alright. The black edges are uneven somewhat, but it seems to have added character. It's amazing actually, because by accident it seems, the black disappears and re-appears depending on the angle you look at it. Anyway, I'm not pleased yet until the morning once the To has dried and I don't have any weird colours or patches. Then onto the sides. I have done the back already.
Chris
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Holy forking snit!! That's HOT!
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Not bad for a $12- bottle of red leather dye, a $12-bottle of black leather dye and a $23- can of Tru-Oil aerosol eh?
(LOL, I had to buy a 2nd bottle of red when I knocked an almost full bottle into the cardboard box I was using! So it cost a little more.)
Chris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dedman
Classic Dedman! Too funny!
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I really like the look. Well done, sir.
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That is a fine look that sets off the white binding well.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dedman
Haha, can't believe I haven't seen this before!!
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That video is a classic, Oh and nice MM-1Q!
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Thanks guys. More to come of course.
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Okay, stuffed up again!
I have done some research and found out what I am doing wrong.
Without using some kind of sanding sealer, the leather dye will just run and seep into the Tru-oil creating a brown mess in the clear. The more coats of tru-Oil and the worse it gets.
4 fine mist coats of sanding sealer allow it to lock in the colour and prevent the Tru-oil and the Dye from blending.
Now I am back where I started and I have to wait for the last coat of tru-oil to dry before carefully sanding it back, applying more dye if required. light coats of sanding sealer and then back onto the Tru-oil.
I purchased some Feast Watson sanding sealer in a small can today from the naughty place. I couldn't find anything in a can. I'll have to get the compressor out and speay it unless anyone has any advice on other brands of sanding sealer? Here's a video of what I am talking about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LEIk22ZzYQ
Chris
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thats odd, I've used tru oil straight over wood dyes, wood stains, fountain pen ink and even water based paints with no problem
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I'd say it's the leather dye.We'll get there in the end. It's all experimental I guess? The guy in that Youtube video I linked above has used the Angelus Leather dyes a lot and always has talked about a sanding sealer first. I had a fair bit of trouble with the black on the back of the body too with it running and doing weird things. I don't have a time limit or anything, so if I have to sand it back, then I have to sand it back.I didn't sand the top back much at all in the beginning so I still should have a bit of 'breathing room' when it comes to the veneer. I'm not beaten yet.
Chris
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There's always a challenge with finishing... looks awesome with the red quilt though
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Thanks Stan. If I can, I'll get a little more black back into it again to highlight the quilt even more.
Chris
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Hi buddy, sorry to hear about your TO dramas. Maybe it might be through using the spray as I have done 6 builds now with TO as a top coat and never experienced what you are talking about. Mind you, I was cautious on a couple done with inks and applied 1st & 2nd coats with a small 1" wide paint brush as I reckon using the rag method might have dragged the stain around all over the place.
Once you get a bit of thickness, usually at around 4-6 straight coats you could do a light sand and revert back to the spray TO and bring it home from there.
Cheers, Waz
