Non-PBG RBX Style Bass Guitar Kit RBX-20 from DIY Guitars

Pop the grain as wazkelly showed me on his bass's.

Attachment 15808

My brother wants this kind of look so I'll give it a go. I'm sure I can blend the colours...well hopefully haha.

He really liked this one:

Attachment 15809

G'day mate, been a bit busy lately and just catching up on some threads.

Presume that darkness is Timber mate? Make sure you wear a mask when sanding it back as the fine dust is not very nice up your nostrils.

Never done a burst but it would seem that lightest colours go down first and gradually bring the darker ones in from the outer edges. Nice example to emulate and hope it comes off for you.

How do you plan to finish it? Stain, Dingo Tone, TruOil, poly, acrylic or nitro sprays?

It's a lot easier to spray a good sunburst than to do it with stains - though Gibson did use to use rubbed alcohol-based stains for doing their sunbursts back in the 1920s (though I'm sure their stainers got a lot of practice first before being allowed to do it on real guitars). Alcohol isn't absorbed as readily by wood as water is, so you are less likely to get darker patches where the grain is more open if you use an alcohol (metho) based stain. End grain soaks up the stain more than the lengthwise-grain, so it can be worth pre-soaking end-grain with water (or metho if an alcohol based stain) so that it doesn't soak up too much stain and appear significantly darker than the top (unless you want that effect).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wazkelly

G'day mate, been a bit busy lately and just catching up on some threads.

Presume that darkness is Timber mate? Make sure you wear a mask when sanding it back as the fine dust is not very nice up your nostrils.

Never done a burst but it would seem that lightest colours go down first and gradually bring the darker ones in from the outer edges. Nice example to emulate and hope it comes off for you.

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Hi Waz,

No worries, it's been a bit of a slow process for me so I haven't been on too often.

Originally it was a lighter oak colour timbermate that I filled all the pores and sanded it at 180. We then changed our minds and decided to pop the grain with black ink which I am about to sand back with 180, 240 and possibly 320 depending on the stain I will be using to make sure it takes to the wood grain. If its left over colour tone I know I can easily go to 400.

I'm waiting on my brother to decide on a colour but some sort of burst like pictured above maybe. I have ordered some Cosmetic Grade Natural Mica Powder Pigment Soap Candle Colorant Dye so I'm waiting for that to arrive. I saw DB recommend the stuff in one of his posts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

How do you plan to finish it? Stain, Dingo Tone, TruOil, poly, acrylic or nitro sprays?

It's a lot easier to spray a good sunburst than to do it with stains - though Gibson did use to use rubbed alcohol-based stains for doing their sunbursts back in the 1920s (though I'm sure their stainers got a lot of practice first before being allowed to do it on real guitars). Alcohol isn't absorbed as readily by wood as water is, so you are less likely to get darker patches where the grain is more open if you use an alcohol (metho) based stain. End grain soaks up the stain more than the lengthwise-grain, so it can be worth pre-soaking end-grain with water (or metho if an alcohol based stain) so that it doesn't soak up too much stain and appear significantly darker than the top (unless you want that effect).

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Hi Simon,

I'll be doing the finishing coat in poly but I'm waiting on my brother to decide on colour first. If I do a burst I'm quite confident I can do this by hand but I will test on some offcuts first. Might even try the airbrush as a test too. I have seen quite a few videos on doing bursts so they seem fairly straight forward.

I have some water based airbrush paint that says it can be applied to wood. How suitable it is for a guitar body I don't know? Maybe mix a bit of mineral turpentine with it?

Cheers,

Alkay.

Airbrushing/spraying water based stain on is fine. You'll certainly get a more gradual sunburst finish than by hand-application. Just let the base stain dry off fully (say two days) before spraying the sunburst on so that the wood is dry enough again to absorb the water+stain well. The end-grain will still want to absorb more water and stain than the top/bottom and sides, so spraying does help to get a more even coating of stain here than by applying by hand in these areas.

Of course, if you are going for a black or very dark edge (like in the photo of the sunburst bass), then hand stain application should still work. But anything a bit lighter, and you may have trouble with with lighter and darker patches around the edges.

Just be patient and spray light coats each time. It shouldn't take long for an airbrushed stain to dry enough to see the true depth of colour. I'd give it 15 minutes between applications.

If you've got a choice of needle/nozzle sizes for your airbrush, then I'd fit the largest one you can. You want a wide area spray, so that at the edges of the spray cone, there's only a small amount of droplets. That's going to help you get a nicely graduated burst. Too narrow a spray pattern and you're going to get harder edges.

I don't think turps would mix with a water based stain/paint, though a slower-drying carrying agent than water would be useful as you want to get the stain soaking into the wood a bit, without the droplets drying in mid-air and the stain just hitting the wood and sitting on the top where it's likely to be brushed off easily. You want to spray a bit further away from the wood to get a wider, more dispersed spray pattern, but the further away you are, the more time the air has to absorb the water droplets.

I'd test it all out first on scrap wood. Afterwards, you could even see what effect simply spraying water on the sunburst area has, as it might encourage the colours to blend further if slightly patchy - or it might do nothing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

Airbrushing/spraying water based stain on is fine. You'll certainly get a more gradual sunburst finish than by hand-application. Just let the base stain dry off fully (say two days) before spraying the sunburst on so that the wood is dry enough again to absorb the water+stain well. The end-grain will still want to absorb more water and stain than the top/bottom and sides, so spraying does help to get a more even coating of stain here than by applying by hand in these areas.

Of course, if you are going for a black or very dark edge (like in the photo of the sunburst bass), then hand stain application should still work. But anything a bit lighter, and you may have trouble with with lighter and darker patches around the edges.

Just be patient and spray light coats each time. It shouldn't take long for an airbrushed stain to dry enough to see the true depth of colour. I'd give it 15 minutes between applications.

If you've got a choice of needle/nozzle sizes for your airbrush, then I'd fit the largest one you can. You want a wide area spray, so that at the edges of the spray cone, there's only a small amount of droplets. That's going to help you get a nicely graduated burst. Too narrow a spray pattern and you're going to get harder edges.

I don't think turps would mix with a water based stain/paint, though a slower-drying carrying agent than water would be useful as you want to get the stain soaking into the wood a bit, without the droplets drying in mid-air and the stain just hitting the wood and sitting on the top where it's likely to be brushed off easily. You want to spray a bit further away from the wood to get a wider, more dispersed spray pattern, but the further away you are, the more time the air has to absorb the water droplets.

I'd test it all out first on scrap wood. Afterwards, you could even see what effect simply spraying water on the sunburst area has, as it might encourage the colours to blend further if slightly patchy - or it might do nothing.

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Hi Simon,

That's really good to hear. I will do some test runs on some scraps first with the airbrush. I know how to do the stencils(art background) so it should come up ok. The airbrush I have is really cheap but I haven't really tested it since I got it.

I'll give those water based airbrush paints a go.

Just a thought. Have you ever hear of anyone using food dye for colouring?

I think it might work as long as it's sealed with poly as soon as it's dryed but I might try a test run with that too.

Cheers,

Alkay.

Hi Alkay, had a look at food colouring but unconvinced as to how colour fast it might be, even under poly or TO plus the colours lacked the depth that you get with inks or proper stains plus it just wanted to bleed everywhere along the grain lines. Could be a right proper PIA if trying use it for doing a burst.

Some of those food dyes can certainly stain your skin for a few days, but I've never tried them on anything apart from some cake icing. I think Waz is 100% right here, and look elsewhere.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

Some of those food dyes can certainly stain your skin for a few days, but I've never tried them on anything apart from some cake icing. I think Waz is 100% right here, and look elsewhere.

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yeah he sounds like it's a bad idea. I'll go with the airbrush paint on some scrap wood for testing, Cheers.

I still have some colour tone left over and my brother likes the red and yellow so I'll do a burst test run on the airbrush and see if he is happy with it.

Just thought I would ask about the food dye. I bought a heap for practice on paper anyway. Thank you.

Cheers,

Alkay.

Hey buddy, a while back I put the lab coat on and experimented with plenty of things for the Red J Bass and one of those was cheap Red Food Dye bought at Woolies.

To be honest it looked better than the watered down Cherry Red Colortone bought from the DIY Guitars closing down sale but having been around the car industry for over 20 years I know that out of all colours Red fades the quickest of the lot. Besides, the food dye did not have a natural looking Red hue and was displaying orange tendencies where I was chasing more toffee apple crimson red hence ending up with fountain pen ink & colortone blended mix.

If you have some Red & Yellow left over suggest experimenting with those plus maybe some humble cheap black ink pad ink where a drop added to say 5-10 drops of red will give you a brown shade should you be seeking a tobacco burst effect. Personally I would just go with a Cherry burst using the 2 colours you already have.

Here was my one and only food dye and cake icing attempt for a friend's young son.

Attachment 15923

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

Here was my one and only food dye and cake icing attempt for a friend's young son.

Attachment 15923

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That's a great effort! How did it taste?

Rather sugary for my taste due to the high icing:cake ratio, but little Ashley loved it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

Rather sugary for my taste due to the high icing:cake ratio, but little Ashley loved it.

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Cake is merely an icing delivery vector.

Awesome looking cake, reminder to self to go and check out the new Star Wars movie

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

Hey everyone,
It's been awhile since I have been on here but the bass is ready to stain again.... after sanding it back to bare wood. Looked rubbish.
I have been experimenting with mica pigment.
I used water and mica solution on a test piece of pine. It didn't take.
I used mineral turpentine and mica solution on a test piece of pine. It sort of took but was very light.

Could I use oil paints and mineral turpentine to thin the mixture so it can be applied as a wipe on?

Or is that just too far out there and a big no no?

I'm just trying to use what I have on hand if possible.

Cheers,

Alkay.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wazkelly

Hey buddy, a while back I put the lab coat on and experimented with plenty of things for the Red J Bass and one of those was cheap Red Food Dye bought at Woolies.

To be honest it looked better than the watered down Cherry Red Colortone bought from the DIY Guitars closing down sale but having been around the car industry for over 20 years I know that out of all colours Red fades the quickest of the lot. Besides, the food dye did not have a natural looking Red hue and was displaying orange tendencies where I was chasing more toffee apple crimson red hence ending up with fountain pen ink & colortone blended mix.

If you have some Red & Yellow left over suggest experimenting with those plus maybe some humble cheap black ink pad ink where a drop added to say 5-10 drops of red will give you a brown shade should you be seeking a tobacco burst effect. Personally I would just go with a Cherry burst using the 2 colours you already have.

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Thanks Waz I think I'll give your advice a go instead of the mica I just mentioned. Worst case scenario I can sand it back again haha.

I'll just do a cherry red over the body first and then a black border and blend it in. I don't like the lemon yellow colour that much.

Cheers,

Alkay.

Hi Alkay, good to see you making some progress on this one.

Had a bit of a fail using black ink pad ink on my latest Tele build and would give that stuff a big swerve unless you want everything very, very black. It didn't want to dilute down and just soaked in really deep and then would not wash off? Seemed like it had a bit of an oily finish too which made the sand back to bare timber an even harder job. I should have spent the extra $5 on black fountain pen ink as I already know how that stuff works out and much easier to work with too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wazkelly

Hi Alkay, good to see you making some progress on this one.

Had a bit of a fail using black ink pad ink on my latest Tele build and would give that stuff a big swerve unless you want everything very, very black. It didn't want to dilute down and just soaked in really deep and then would not wash off? Seemed like it had a bit of an oily finish too which made the sand back to bare timber an even harder job. I should have spent the extra $5 on black fountain pen ink as I already know how that stuff works out and much easier to work with too.

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Hey Waz,

Yes I just found that out. The black ink for stamps is really black. I'll see how it looks when dry but I can also sand back again. You can't actually see the reds and yellows I have done with the photo.

Anyway here is a pic:

Attachment 16727

Cheers,

Alkay.

That's looking nice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

That's looking nice.

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Thanks Simon so I'll just keep going then I guess hahaha.
.
I'll do the back the same and the sides will be black I think?

Cheers,

Alkay.

Black, or maybe just a very dark brown? You don't need to go all the way to a black.

Looking good.

Hey everyone, I kind of did this but you can't see the colours:

Attachment 16776

Attachment 16777

Nice looking burst Alkay.
Can I ask what you took the photos with? Do you need to clean the lens? The photos look foggy.

I was going for an outback australian look on this build.

Cheers,

Alkay

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zandit75

Nice looking burst Alkay.
Can I ask what you took the photos with? Do you need to clean the lens? The photos look foggy.

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Hey yeah I noticed it too. I think my phone needs a clean. Really bad photo's sorry peoples. This bass really does look awesome, I think it's the best build I have done. My phone gets knocked around a bit \m/

Cheers,

Alkay.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alkay

Hey yeah I noticed it too. I think my phone needs a clean. Really bad photo's sorry peoples. This bass really does look awesome, I think it's the best build I have done. My phone gets knocked around a bit \m/

Cheers,

Alkay.

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I'm looking forward to finishing off this LP like yours. It looks so good.

Cheers,

Alkay

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

Black, or maybe just a very dark brown? You don't need to go all the way to a black.

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I'll try the brown using the red I have left over with a drop of black and see how that turns out. Just trying to use up what I have on hand at the moment. Hopefully I'll be able to use the mica pigments I bought but from what I have read it needs to be mixed with a resin so maybe polyurethane but that kind of goes against everything I have learned so far. eg. sand, stain with colours and then clear coat.

Cheers,

Alkay.

Another update. Hopefully the camera is better this time but here goes:

Attachment 16822

Attachment 16823

Attachment 16824

Attachment 16825

Hope that works.

Cheers,

Alkay.

Looks great! How'd you get the striping effect on the back? Was it a whole lot of meticulous staining along the grain lines? Whatever it was, it looks amazing.

Holy moly that is looking nice! Well done!

coming along nicely Alkay, is the neck a rosewood or maple fingerboard ? (save me going back through the diary !)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by G-Axe

Looks great! How'd you get the striping effect on the back? Was it a whole lot of meticulous staining along the grain lines? Whatever it was, it looks amazing.

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Hi G-Axe,

Cheers for the feedback. I followed the natural grain using the blue masking tape and alternating the red and yellow colours. Once that was touch dry I then did the black burst effect with two mixtures of standard black stamp ink. One with less water added to darken the perimiter and the other mix had more water to slightly darken the inner part of the back. Can't really remember the ratio to be honest I just kept mixing and testing it on pine until I thought they both looked ok. I don't have a spray gun attachment on my airbrush yet like what Simon from the UK uses so I just made do with using a rolled up paper towel into a ball and a lint free white cloth to do all the wipe on staining. I hope that helps.

So is the basement still open in Belconnen? I used to spend allot of time there hahaha.

Cheers,

Alkay.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wokkaboy

coming along nicely Alkay, is the neck a rosewood or maple fingerboard ? (save me going back through the diary !)

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Thanks Wokkaboy, the fingerboard is rosewood I believe. I'll probably need to get some wax to protect it? I haven't done that with my LP's either so I'm open to suggestions.

Cheers,

Alkay.

Thanks everyone for the compliments. It's great to get some feedback so I can learn more.

It has a few issues but so far it's one of my better builds. I did want to do a dark brown as Simon suggested but I did a test run on some pine and I wasn't happy with the look of it. I also wanted to use up the left over colours I had so that's why I did that striping effect on the side of the body too(not sure if it's visible in the above photos).

I did one coat of poly on the body last night and just about to do another. I'll post some photo's soon after a few more coats before I do any wet sanding.

Cheers,
Alkay.

Rosewood doesn't need waxing, though you can do it if you want. Lemon oil is the standard seasoner/cleaner for rosewood and ebony boards. You board will probably be quite dry (the Aussie heat doesn't help) so will probably soak up several applications to start with. It will also darken the board considerably. Once it stops soaking up the oil, wipe off the excess and the rest should soak in or evaporate. You should then only need to re-apply a light coat every 6 months or so. If you use the bass a lot, then I'd suggest a yearly strings-off fret polish and fingerboard clean.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

Rosewood doesn't need waxing, though you can do it if you want. Lemon oil is the standard seasoner/cleaner for rosewood and ebony boards. You board will probably be quite dry (the Aussie heat doesn't help) so will probably soak up several applications to start with. It will also darken the board considerably. Once it stops soaking up the oil, wipe off the excess and the rest should soak in or evaporate. You should then only need to re-apply a light coat every 6 months or so. If you use the bass a lot, then I'd suggest a yearly strings-off fret polish and fingerboard clean.

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Hi Simon thanks for the tip I'll order some now. Hopefully it will dry quickly. I'm looking forward to putting all the electronics in this one soon.

Cheers,

Alkay.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

Rosewood doesn't need waxing, though you can do it if you want. Lemon oil is the standard seasoner/cleaner for rosewood and ebony boards. You board will probably be quite dry (the Aussie heat doesn't help) so will probably soak up several applications to start with. It will also darken the board considerably. Once it stops soaking up the oil, wipe off the excess and the rest should soak in or evaporate. You should then only need to re-apply a light coat every 6 months or so. If you use the bass a lot, then I'd suggest a yearly strings-off fret polish and fingerboard clean.

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Hi Simon I have done a few searches and there is a variety on the auction/buy it now site. Could you recommend what you use?

Cheers,

Alkay.