Hi H, I've never used Goof off but think that should do the job. Please let the forum know how it goes. Where is the glue on the veneer or body back/sides or both ?
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Hi H, I've never used Goof off but think that should do the job. Please let the forum know how it goes. Where is the glue on the veneer or body back/sides or both ?
Hey H. I've used Goof-off before and have found it to work very nicely on removing glue spots from veneer. I bought the smallest tin, but surely it's all the same stuff. Just rub it hard into the glue patch and then clean off again with a clean rag. I usually do this about 3 times per spot and it seems to do the trick. I haven't had any issues with it melting binding, but I have been careful to keep it off the binding as much as possible. Just something to maybe be carefule on.
cheers,
Gav.
Yep, I have the same tin. I'm also going to be using this for the first time on my next build.
Goof Off went well, I'm pretty sure I got all the glue off.
Finished shaping the headstock with sandpaper. Took ages but the result was worth it. Still needs to be sanded smooth, but the shape's where I want it.
http://i.imgur.com/2bzTCiw.jpg
Took the body up to 240 on the back and sides, haven't touched the front yet. The marks I was worried about look like they're completely gone. My forearms and fingers hurt.
http://i.imgur.com/CsnEQRT.jpg
Based on Wazkelly's advice
I guess the next step is to (lightly) sand the veneer at 320 and then stain. Might wait until it stops raining though. After each coat I plan to hang the body in the cupboard that contains the central heater. It's not the warmest place in the house, but it's always got a small draft through it from the intake and stays around ~22-24 degrees celsius when the heater's on.Quote:
Originally Posted by wazkelly
Hi mate, just a line to let you know that for a first timer your doing awesome, as one myself i know how daunting a task it is, but i couldnt do it without the help of the guys on this forum...3 cheers to all you guys!Quote:
Originally Posted by UpperCaseH
Dig that headstock shape.
Well done H, results look great. Headstock looks sweet and glad the glue has gone. Will be using goof off for sure next kit with glue
Great job nitro, like the headstock and body is nice and clean after goofing it!
Achy arms is the sign of a good sanding session!
Sent from my GT-I9506 using Tapatalk
Sorry wasnt me, that was UpperCaseH, i was just commentingQuote:
Originally Posted by andrewdosborne
H,
that edge is looking very spesh, great advice from Wazkelly.
If you are putting DT stain on, don't worry about the rain/humidity, it does not adversely effect stain coats. If you put a decent stain coat on, check it after 3, then 5 and if still not dry then 7 days. Depending on temperature (cold) it might take a week.
Good luck H, I'll be rooting for ya.
G'day H. bit late on the scene as was busy with EOFY crap at work all last week.
With the Goof Off, many glue marks are quite hard to see until 1st stain coat has been applied so suggest wiping the guitar with a soft damp cloth and closely inspect to see any parts that look different to the rest as these may just be small remnants of glue lurking in the background. The stuff has a really strong smell like acetone and hoped you used gloves. It even melted through the blue nitrite ones I used. Kept well clear of any binding as the stuff is designed to dissolve glue, the exact stuff that holds your binding together so best to stay well clear.
I know I will be banished to the cupboard under the stairs in the naughty warehouse for admitting and even mentioning this but here goes... I used TO on back, sides front, & fret board for my Ash Jazz Bass as per below shots as most maple boards I have played in the past were always sealed with some sort of finish and it seemed to make sense as all the oils available suggest not good on maple but ideal for rosewood. Only put around 6-8 very light oats on the Fret Board and then used a fret finishing tool bought on eBay that has a slot cut in it for the fret to protrude and a bit of metal either side to protect things when using 0000 steel wool remove TO finish off the frets and also bring them up nice and clean & shiny. Some forum members have suggested making a similar thing from an ice cream container lid. Should mention that a little bit of light steel wool sanding was used between the frets between some of the coats just to keep things going down even. Also used the Maguires car polish all over too and took more time polishing the fret board to make sure no residue was left behind. Yes, TO does have a very light amber tint but as you can see below it came out OK and not as dark as some store bought examples made in USA. Have used the DT wax on Rosewood and whilst harder work it does a much better job on that timber than lemon oil which tends to look quite dry rather soon after application whereas the wax looks lush and almost moist and feels better once playing too. Could work OK on maple too, just preferred the traditional look and feel and lesser ongoing maintenance.
Attachment 12445Attachment 12446Attachment 12447Attachment 12448
On the forum everyone has different opinions and advice and you just need to go with what you think best suits you. Hopefully some of the feedback and comments helps you plot an easier course through the mine field of many finishing challenges that lie ahead and wish you luck on your journey.
Edit, If wanting to stain the headstock suggest at least one or 2 coats of either DT Neck Finish or TO to the rest of the neck so that the colour on headstock does not bleed or penetrate where it shouldn't go, and always mask up with a good quality painters masking tape. Once you have the colour where you want it you can then apply same top coat stuff to seal things.
Thank you everyone!
Waz, I used gloves for the Goof Off, they didn't melt but definitely weakened. Did the whole thing outside since it smelled strongly of solvent as soon as I opened the can.
Wiped the body down afterwards and I don't think I can see any spots left. I guess I'll learn what to look for if I get a stain coat down and I've missed something.
I'd be completely lost without all the advice from this forum, and I really appreciate everyone's help. I like that there's lots of different opinions, it means there's lots of different ways to get results.
That bass looks fantastic, if I manage something half as good I'll be happy! The mrs actually said "you should do a bass next" today. She's right, I should.
Way to go H and highly recommend the Ash J Bass kit. Dead simple and was the easiest of my 4 builds. The question is would you be brave enough to go fretless?
Fretless? Good question! I'd love to have one but I'm not sure how much I'd play it, and trying to pull frets and fill gaps looks terrifying. There's also that rick-ish bass kit that looks like it's based on the bass I'd buy new if I had unlimited money. I also would like to make a 6-string SG. So... hah... fretless is something I'd look at for a bass, but might not make the cut next time. I'll try not to plan anything just yet and see how I go with this one first, but I've got a long-ish list of "Stuff I'd like to do".
I've always had "I want that bass/amp/pedal/thing" moments, but never really understod the whole GAS thing. Until now.
It becomes infectious doesn't it. If there was an endless supply of money plus plenty of spare time there are many kits most of us would like to build. The hard part is narrowing that list down to fit within reality which for most folks is limited time and funds.
If I went one more build it would be something a little bit different like the double cutaway LP Jnr or a Firebird as both kits come in Mahogany and haven't worked on that timber yet. Hmmm, maybe one day and leaning more towards a Firebird.
Finished sanding, masked up the binding, went to attach a bit of scrap to the neck pocket so I can move/hang the body once it's stained... and found out the bolts I thought I'd use are slightly too big. By the time I got that sorted out, it was dark. It'll probably be Sunday before I get to make any progress.
Progress! And Problems! (separated into two posts due to image limit)
Got the stain coat down. Wasn't too hard, the DT smells great compared to every other paint, stain, etc I've ever used, and I'm pretty stoked about how the quilted veneer looks - despite my worries that it wouldn't be a very obvious without some inking or something, it looks pretty much how I wanted. Photos aren't really doing it justice, it looks a lot "flatter" in the photo than it does in person.
http://i.imgur.com/zcnYsZ7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7A06DWR.jpg
Edit: The mrs managed to take a photo that makes it look very close to what it looks like in real life:
http://i.imgur.com/1rnOuvS.jpg
Now... problems.
The two marks on the front. Not sure what they are, I don't think they're glue but the stain didn't seem to take on them. Unfortunately, they're not going to be covered by the pick guard or bridge. Any way to fix them? I'm not super concerned, they don't stick out that much in person, but "a problem happened, how do I fix it?" is part of the learning process I'm trying for here.
http://i.imgur.com/YNbvl7T.jpg
This mark in the center of the back. Don't know what it is, but again it didn't take the stain. Looks almost like part of the grain. Did I not sand enough? The rest of the back looks good enough that I almost regret getting a quilted veneer front.
http://i.imgur.com/7XzSzkx.jpg
Missed a glue spot! Do I use Goof Off again, or has the fact that I've tried to stain it made this impossible to remove?
http://i.imgur.com/fxlFiTT.jpg
Finally, the one I'm absolutely kicking myself over because I should have known better, I stained over newspaper and the ink rubbed off on the finish. It's me, I'm the idiot. I might just leave it there because it's where my forearm will rub on the guitar and that's where my basses seem to wear the most, and also whenever I look at it it'll remind me to think things through before proceeding.
http://i.imgur.com/AoeHly4.jpg
H,
I don't know what the marks are on the veneer. Its hard to tell on the first stain coats exactly how the DT will take in later stages. I've found that even when the stain coat doesn't take or looks a bit washed out, later stain coats take care of it or the intensifying coat goes over it.
One things for sure, i've even stuffed the DT final coat in places and had to sand back bits to bare wood. not a massive problem, just had to lay down some a bit of stain coats, and some intensifying coats over offending bits to get them back up to speed. Be really careful on that paper thin veneer with any sanding or goof off, same with that glue spot the newspaper mark can be either sanded off with a light sandpaper, then restain. just wait till it cures.
BTW I use the rubber floor mats when im applying DT, easy to keep clean, no foreign bodies to stick to guitar etc.
Did you grain fill with timbermate? or anything? I cant tell.
Thanks Andy!
I didn't do any grain filling. I decided not to on the veneer based on the whole "it's really thin!" thing people were saying, then I just... forgot on the back. It was part of the plan but it completely slipped my mind.
I'll wait for it to cure then I'll carefully sand back the ink marks and re-stain, goof-off the glue spot and re-stain, and probably not worry too much about the marks on the veneer and back and hope they disappear or at least become less prominent with further staining.
I think I went a bit too thick with the initial stain. I did rub it in really well, then when it was touch-dry I went over it again much thinner. Hope I didn't mess up too much there.
How do I tell when it's cured? When it stops smelling? It's dry to touch now (~30 hours later), I know that doesn't mean it's cured, but I'm not sure how to tell.
hey H, i think they are all glue spots, i dont know if some gentle spot sanding may work...
nice colour
I would check on it after three, then 5 then 7 days. depending on the weather. I expect it will still stain your fingers to the touch after 3 days, after 5 it will be dry but not fully cured in this cold weather, I reckon 7's the go. If its dry to the touch after 3 I expect it may cure after 5.Quote:
Originally Posted by UpperCaseH
If you don't grain fill the timber will soak up heaps of DT stain so you won't need too many coats. You might need to be a bit more patient with your intensifying coats.
When timbermating the thin veneers, I just sand it back to the veneer lightly with a high grade say about 320 or 400 only. If you're careful you wont go through.
Good luck H
G'day H, dreaded stubborn glue spots on the quilted top and most likely filler on back and also near neck pocket. A bit more vigorous Goof Off scrubbing on the 2 on the top may shift them. If not, may need to also use a toothbrush sized wire brush. They can be found at the big green shed and also at golfing supply stores. Need to use them very lightly and go in the direction of the grain which on a quilt might just be swirls? Careful not to go too hard at it as you can easily add deep scratches and gouge marks that may not come out.
Andy's advice with DT is spot on. Also used DT on my Explorers and on the Orange EX-5 had a similar looking bit of filler near the neck pocket too and just added a bit more stain to that immediate are hoping it would soak in. Only made a slight difference and being mainly located on the back wasn't too worried about it. The one on the back is also filler and same deal on my Basswood bodied Tele and tried to dig out as much as possible but was creating a hole and had to stop. Different story on the Red Ash J Bass as I knew the timbermate would fill any holes and dug the crap out on that build.
As Andy mentioned, with the 1st DT stain coat the bare timber is quite thirsty and soaks up plenty. 2nd and subsequent coats won't take as much effort and use less stain. With very chilly weather forecast for remainder of this week for Southern states suggest it may need at least 7 days curing time unless you can sneak it inside somewhere where it would be nice and warm?
The big thing with DT is it is a lesson in patience.....if rushing things it could end up in tears.
OK, lots more work to do then!
The body's hanging inside, so it's probably sitting at around 20-22 degrees during the day and around 15 at night. I'll check it on thursday or friday and see how it's curing. If I have to wait until next week that just gives me more time to get the neck ready.
I'll Goof Off the spots on the top, already got a wire brush when I picked up the tin, but hopefully I don't have to use it. Might leave the one on the back (it's not as visible in person as in the photos) and see how it comes up with more coats - it seems to be holding some colour and I'm kind of curious to see where it goes.
Don't know about the filler spot by the neck pocket. It didn't retain any colour at all, but because of where it it I'm not sure I want to try digging at it. I don't particularly want to leave it, but it's in a place that'll be hard to see once the neck's in so I'm not overly worried. Might dig into my modelling paints and see if I've got a red close enough to obscure the mark (which would look awful in a prominent location, but maybe it'll work out here).
In future, I guess I'll avoid problems like this by using Timbermate and scraping/refilling any similar patches.
Silly question time!
I spent all morning sanding the neck and head. I've masked the front of the head (it's gonna be red). I'm getting ready to mask off the fingerboard, and I've realised I don't know where to mask it.
So... Red, blue, or green arrow for where the stain/finish stops and the wax starts? And how best to mask it? The head's just done with blue 3m tape, same as I used for the binding.
Or do I not mask at all and just try to carefully get the DT clear up to the red arrow?
http://i.imgur.com/TE6aNKZ.jpg
Totally up to you dude!
I had a rosewood FB and used your green arrow to split the stain(Ebony on the FB and Aizona orange on the neck), then I used your blue arrow to split between the oil and the clear coat(I cleared the side of the fretboard).
Haha, thought that might be the answer! Thanks!
Reckon I'll mask off to the blue arrow. Since it's just going to be a clear coat on the neck and a waxed fretboard, I'm not trying to do anythign fancy, just wondering if I was about to make a huge mistake without realising.
Edit: All masked up, 1st coat on, and hanging up to dry on a nerve-wrackingly jury-rigged arrangement of dowels and string. Neck coat went on lots easier than the body coat, and it looks great. The only thing I'm really having trouble with right now is patience!
The neck cured quite quikly - 3 days hanging inside next to the body. It looked a bit patchy, so I put a second stain coat on and now it seems to be fine. Can't wait to see what it looks like with the finishing coats, hopefully I'll be able to get started this week.
The body... first coat's still not cured. I think the advice about "non-grain-filled wood will drink lots of stain" is spot on. I checked it after 3 days, 5 days, and now 7 days, and if I lightly rub it with a bit of paper towel it's still leaving a little bit of red on the paper.
No pics because nothing has visibly changed. Patience is hard. I really want to see if I can get these glue spots off!
Good touch dry test there and suggests you may need to double drying & curing times just to be on the safe side. The upside with applying second DT coat is the guitar won't soak up as much stain from the rag so best to use a very light touch, and we all know you will probably apply at least a 3rd or maybe 4th stain coat and from personal experience subsequent coats will not be as forgiving after 2nd has been done.
Andy's tip about using a clean rag to wipe off the excess on each coat application makes sense as it would also help speed up the drying and curing time and hopefully prevent the patchiness that can develop without warning.
Body seemed to have cured this morning, so I spent about 45 minutes rubbing the glue spots with Goof Off. Didn't seem to work super well, so I gently used a wire brush, re-applied Goof Off, repeat, etc. Looked like it was coming up OK, so gave it a few hours to dry off and got he second stain coat down. Wiping the excess stain off with a clean rag seemed to work really well! Spots aren't totally gone, but are much better - way less visible, but still stand out pretty clearly under a camera flash. I'll have another go once this coat cures, so probably next week.
Noticed the masking has lifted off the binding in one spot, probably stretched the tape a bit when applying. Didn't drip too much stain in there, but I guess I'm gonna be scraping later on.
Colour's coming along nicely, gonna leave it at 3 stain coats though, it looks like it might bet a bit dark if I go for more. Still can't take a decent photo inside.
http://i.imgur.com/AC5bUQJ.jpg
that is going to look great when the clear coats go on :D
God that quilt looks great. Love the colour choice H
thats looking very tasty H, good work. Lovely shade of red
Echo all of the above comments and the stubborn glue spots seem to have faded almost into the quilt pattern perhaps? Maybe add a bit more just to those 2 spots on the next stain application, ie. after doing all over coat go back and to a few more spot touches. Don't think much else will work without stripping too much finish and possibly veneer off the top.
Thanks everyone! I hope the colour deepens/darkens a little bit more as the third stain and intensifiers go on, but I'd be pretty happy even if it didn't.
Waz, you're right, from most angle the spots almost look like part of the quilting. I did touch them up after doing the all over coat and I'll do it again on the final stain coat, but from a very shallow angle (with my eye almost level with the edge of the body) they still stand out to me. I'm trying not to worry too much - with hand made stuff it seems like the maker can always see every little thing wrong with it.
H, you are correct, the colour will deepen until you hit about 4 stain coats. Subsequent stain coats may deepen the colour after that but not as much. The inensifying coats will then deepen the colours further. Once you've done about 4 stain coats and at least 3 intensifiers, you'll be hitting the max colour.
Know what you mean about slight imperfections as on some of mine there are a few hidden secrets that only I know about and suspect nobody would readily spot. Even if they do that is all part of the hand built thing.....it is a one off and once you start playing it you are bound to get dings and marks on it eventually. They are meant to be played not locked away in a case or permanently hung up on a wall.
Rubbed the neck (with 2 stain coats cured) down with 0000 steel wool, brushed it real well, and applied the first coat of DT final neck coat. Looks OK at the moment, I'll be interested to see how it dries since at the moment it's very glossy.
I needed way less than I thought. I poured what I thought was a tiny amount out, loaded up the cloth, squeezed it out again (so maybe a quarter of what I poured was on the cloth), then applied it without needing to load the cloth up again. Needs a warning on the bottle. Something like "You need much less of this than you think. Half what you think, then half of that".
Does anyone know where I could buy waterslide decal paper for a laser printer? One place wants something like $12 per sheet and it seems like a lot. Also, how do you guys clear coat over decals? On a model plane or truck or whatever I'd do a gloss clear coat, then decal, then gloss clear 2 or 3 more times to hide the edges, then matte clear if it wasn't supposed to shine, but since I'm not doing a real "gloss" coat and not transitioning to matte, I'm not really sure how to proceed once the decal's on. Just go with the DT final stuff over the top? Is there a max number of coats I can do with that?
sounds good H, the maple necks don't take much final coat as you worked out.
stunning red, nice work