TL-1 (Factory second)

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Originally Posted by peterh

Hey Doc, I'll pick up a new set of feeler gauges tomorrow. I have a set of my dad's old ones marked 6 to 32 but I don't know if thats hundreds of an inch or something else. That measurement of .020" - is that on the open strings or when pressing down on the 3rd fret?

On another note, I put all the wiring together tonight and ..... it makes a hell of a buzz. I've had some conversations going on another thread about pickup wiring and I thought I understood what I should be doing but obviously not. The volume is working fine - roll it back and the buzz decreases, roll it forward and it gets louder up to a point and then it gets pretty quiet right near the top end. I tried tapping the pickups with a screwdriver to see if anything was working and I might have been getting something from the bridge pickup but don't think I heard anything from the neck pup.
I'm wondering if I still misunderstood the grounding of the copper shielding. I used the outer braid from a piece of wire as the ground from the bridge, soldered it to the copper in the cavity and then soldered it to the pot case. Should I have used coated wire instead of bare mesh?
Here's a couple shots of the control panel wiring. Yeah... it's a bit messy but I haven't soldered much lately. All the connections are solid as far as I can tell. Anything look totally amiss?
Attachment 10760Attachment 10761

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Yep, the measurement of .020 inch is on the open strings, it's Fender's standard specification for all their Strats, Teles, and other six-string guitars, except Basses, I think they use a different spec on their Basses.


I get a similar buzzing issue with my strat, when I did the bridge-grounding I soldered one end of a piece of insulated wire to a suitable point on the back of the volume control, and the other end was soldered to the trem-spring claw on the back of the guitar body, since you have a Telecaster style guitar, you just use a piece of insulated wire to ground the bridge to the volume control as per how I did with my strat, but instead of soldering the other end to the spring claw, you just strip about an inch or so of the insulation off the end, twist the strands together, and then put that underneath the bridge plate before attaching the bridge with the mounting screws, to check if you have properly grounded the bridge you can use a multimeter set to low ohms, you should see close to zero ohms if you touch one multimeter probe to the bridge and the other probe to the sleeve connection on the output jack.



There's at least four possibilities for no sound from the neck pickup, the neck pickup could be open-circuit, there could be a bad solder-joint, or a bad pickup selector switch contact, or the neck pickup could be short-circuited somewhere.

I tested the bridge ground with my analog multi-meter but I'm not sure whether the reading is right or not (I inherited the meter from my dad, didn't come with any instructions). When I set it for 1 Ohm and touch the 2 probes together I get a reading of 20, I get the same reading when touching the top of the bridge and the outer sleeve of the jack. I'm guessing that that is correct? I get the same readings also, when I test the neck ground wire in the cavity and the outer jack sleeve. It seems that the buzzing gets worse as soon as I touch any metal part on the guitar. Not sure what to look at next. Guess I pull all the wires off and try again.

I think the diagrams I've been looking at (Tonerider is one of them) must be for a different kind of 3-way switch because it shows the bridge connecting to the lugs closest to the volume pot but that circuit isn't in operation unless the switch is in the forward position, which would make sense to be the neck position. So.... I totally disconnected the bridge pup for now and put the neck pup on the rear most switch lugs. The buzzing is still there, but I get sound out of the pup when I tap on it with pliers. Tomorrow I'll try hooking the bridge pup up again and see if I get any sound from it. Maybe I've got a bad switch.

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Originally Posted by peterh

I tested the bridge ground with my analog multi-meter but I'm not sure whether the reading is right or not (I inherited the meter from my dad, didn't come with any instructions). When I set it for 1 Ohm and touch the 2 probes together I get a reading of 20, I get the same reading when touching the top of the bridge and the outer sleeve of the jack. I'm guessing that that is correct? I get the same readings also, when I test the neck ground wire in the cavity and the outer jack sleeve. It seems that the buzzing gets worse as soon as I touch any metal part on the guitar. Not sure what to look at next. Guess I pull all the wires off and try again.

I think the diagrams I've been looking at (Tonerider is one of them) must be for a different kind of 3-way switch because it shows the bridge connecting to the lugs closest to the volume pot but that circuit isn't in operation unless the switch is in the forward position, which would make sense to be the neck position. So.... I totally disconnected the bridge pup for now and put the neck pup on the rear most switch lugs. The buzzing is still there, but I get sound out of the pup when I tap on it with pliers. Tomorrow I'll try hooking the bridge pup up again and see if I get any sound from it. Maybe I've got a bad switch.

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Usually, those Analog meters are set up so that if you select the 1 Ohm range, it should read 1 Ohm with full-scale deflection, assuming that the battery in the multimeter is a fresh one, did you make sure to zero the meter before you did the test?, zeroing the meter issimply touching the two probes together and adjusting the Zero knob till the meter needle sits over the Zero mark on the scale, the reason why you do that is because the meter probe leads contribute a small amount of resistance to the reading on the meter so Zeroing the meter nulls out the extra resistance of the leads, I think if you are getting a reading of about 20 there's a good chance that you have continuity between the meter probes, the reading would be much higher if there wasn't continuity.


With my Strat, I get the opposite effect, the hum tends to get reduced if I touch the bridge while the guitar is plugged in, I'm sure that the grounds in my guitar are all good, so I reckon you might have a grounding issue somewhere, if you don't get sound with the bridge pickup installed you can de-solder it and use your multimeter to check if the pickup is open-circuited, to do this you switch your multimeter to the highest resistance range, say X10k or X100k, zero the meter, and then touch one meter probe to one of the wires of the bridge pickup, then do the same for the other probe, an open-circuit pickup will be indicated by an infinite reading on the meter scale.

Please post a pic of your output jack connections, buzzing when you touch any grounded metal is often a sign the the jack connections are reversed. Also, the switch is a different type to what you see in most diagrams so it connects differently. If you are unsure about your connections post images and we'll walk you through it.

Doc, the multi-meter tips were very helpful. I calibrated the meter, and using the 10x setting, I found that the middle lug on the volume pot, which has the hot wire going to the output jack, shows continuity (reading 0 on the meter) and I'm pretty sure it shouldn't. I'll pull the wire off and try a new piece - maybe there's a nick in the cover that's shorting the ground wire to the hot wire.

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Originally Posted by peterh

Doc, the multi-meter tips were very helpful. I calibrated the meter, and using the 10x setting, I found that the middle lug on the volume pot, which has the hot wire going to the output jack, shows continuity (reading 0 on the meter) and I'm pretty sure it shouldn't. I'll pull the wire off and try a new piece - maybe there's a nick in the cover that's shorting the ground wire to the hot wire.

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Was that with the Volume knob rotated fully anti-clockwise?, if so that would be normal, if on the other-hand you get a reading of 0 on the meter where the Volume knob is rotated fully clockwise that would possibly indicate that you have the Volume control wired up back-to-front, or if you get a reading of 0 no matter how the Volume control is set then you might have a short-to-ground on the output jack or somewhere after the Volume control.

Umm..... to be honest, I never even thought about how the volume knob was rotated. I guess I assumed that there shouldn't be any connectivity shown between any hot wire and ground but I'll do another check today with the knob rotated in both directions.
I totally missed WeirdBits post last night (I blame the solder fumes) - I'll post a pic of the output jack later this morning after coffee (priorities).

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Originally Posted by peterh

Umm..... to be honest, I never even thought about how the volume knob was rotated. I guess I assumed that there shouldn't be any connectivity shown between any hot wire and ground but I'll do another check today with the knob rotated in both directions.
I totally missed WeirdBits post last night (I blame the solder fumes) - I'll post a pic of the output jack later this morning after coffee (priorities).

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With the Volume control pot, the solder lug that's at the most anti-clockwise position of the pot shaft rotation (assuming you're looking down the shaft towards the pot) needs to be connected to ground, the other solder lug gets connected to the pickup switch hot connection, and as you know, the output is taken from the middle wiper solder-lug of the volume control pot.

Scott comment is a LIKE +1. :)

i even built a reversed jack and output as a quick tester to 'correct' my misdirected soldering the second time i did it. I'll be surprised if that isnt where its gone wrong.

Okay I SWEAR I checked it twice before I soldered it, but I guess the trick is to check 3 times or else don't do it at midnight :p
There it was, laughing at me, once I finished my coffee......backwards, you idiot.
On the plus side it sounds so quiet now ;)
Attachment 10779
(yes, that's all black dog hair in the background - time to vacuum I guess)
Intonation is pretty decent after adjusting the saddles but the low E is still a bit sharp on 12th fret.
Now it's time to strip it all down and do the pickguard holes and put the final coats of TO on then polish it up.
Just in time too - new puppy coming on Friday so I may not have much free time for a while.

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Originally Posted by peterh

Okay I SWEAR I checked it twice before I soldered it, but I guess the trick is to check 3 times or else don't do it at midnight :p
There it was, laughing at me, once I finished my coffee......backwards, you idiot.
On the plus side it sounds so quiet now ;)
Attachment 10779
(yes, that's all black dog hair in the background - time to vacuum I guess)
Intonation is pretty decent after adjusting the saddles but the low E is still a bit sharp on 12th fret.
Now it's time to strip it all down and do the pickguard holes and put the final coats of TO on then polish it up.
Just in time too - new puppy coming on Friday so I may not have much free time for a while.

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Don't worry, I've been there and done that too, i.e. wired up the socket backwards, it's an easy enough mistake to make, at least you know that everything works as it should now.

Doc, I picked up a new set of feeler gauges today. Turns out my dad's old set WERE in thousands of an inch - could have saved the $10 but at least I know for sure now.
The end result is that, surprisingly, the bone nut is actually just about the right height so the factory nut must have been way too tall. I got .020 on the low E and A strings, about .018 on the D and G strings, .019 on the B and .021 on the high E. I may try and shim a nut up just a bit (I got a package of 5 of them) to try see what difference it makes but I think this one's pretty close. I may try to dress the slots a bit - they should have a bit of a downward angle on the backside of the nut I believe so that they make the most contact right at the fretboard side of the nut.
More holes to drill today (tuners, trees, pickguard, control plate) and then some final coats of TO and polishing. Got a bottle of Meguiars Ultimate compound on Friday. Hopefully that helps finish off the TO.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by peterh

Doc, I picked up a new set of feeler gauges today. Turns out my dad's old set WERE in thousands of an inch - could have saved the $10 but at least I know for sure now.
The end result is that, surprisingly, the bone nut is actually just about the right height so the factory nut must have been way too tall. I got .020 on the low E and A strings, about .018 on the D and G strings, .019 on the B and .021 on the high E. I may try and shim a nut up just a bit (I got a package of 5 of them) to try see what difference it makes but I think this one's pretty close. I may try to dress the slots a bit - they should have a bit of a downward angle on the backside of the nut I believe so that they make the most contact right at the fretboard side of the nut.
More holes to drill today (tuners, trees, pickguard, control plate) and then some final coats of TO and polishing. Got a bottle of Meguiars Ultimate compound on Friday. Hopefully that helps finish off the TO.

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Those figures indicate that you've got your 1st-fret action right in the ballpark, Fender give a tolerance of about +/- .002 inch for the 1st-fret action spec of .020 inch, so it can range from about .018 to .022 inch.

Hi Peter,

If the nut is at the right height, once you string her up and intonate her, she will play open chords in tune. If the nut is not at the right height, an open chord will not play in tune. If its too low the action will be bad and you'll have fretting issues. Before doing further modifications, I would probably have a play once set up.

By the way, can you get your hands on a circlip? I use these to hold the Bourns pots at the right height to the control plate.

Good luck mate. That Tele is looking very sweet.

I think the nut is sorted out now.
Did a minor fret levelling on 3 frets that were a bit high. Could use a fret crowning file but that's a bit pricey at the moment.
The last thing to do is apply the Dr. Ducks and wax. How many coats should a new neck require? It seemed to soak on pretty quickly like the tru oil did.

Let the Dr Duks soak in and then polish it off to remove the excess. Not sure how the wax will go over the top of the dr ducks though if that was your plan. Personally I would use one or the other.

cheers,
Gav.

No wax - that was an autocorrect typo. I did Polish off the one coat I put on but it doesn't really feel like there's much of anything on the fretboard which is why I wondered how many coats I should put on.

I gave it a play today and for the most part it plays pretty well. Still might need to fine tune the nut - there's still just a hint of a sitar-y buzz on the B string. One thing I've noticed though - and maybe it's because I haven't played electric guitar before - is that I have to be really light when pressing on frets when playing chords or they tend to play sharp because the height of the frets causes a 'bending' of the note the harder you press on the fret.
Is this typical of electric guitars in general? My acoustic doesn't do this but the frets do seem lower. Should i do a fret levelling/lowering to reduce this effect?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by peterh

I gave it a play today and for the most part it plays pretty well. Still might need to fine tune the nut - there's still just a hint of a sitar-y buzz on the B string. One thing I've noticed though - and maybe it's because I haven't played electric guitar before - is that I have to be really light when pressing on frets when playing chords or they tend to play sharp because the height of the frets causes a 'bending' of the note the harder you press on the fret.
Is this typical of electric guitars in general? My acoustic doesn't do this but the frets do seem lower. Should i do a fret levelling/lowering to reduce this effect?

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Peter, if you have been playing acoustic guitar for a while, it can take a while to adjust to the lighter touch needed on an electric guitar's light strings. You could sand the frets lower, but I'd suggest maybe change the strings to a heavier gauge. The kits usually come with 0.009s maybe go up to a 0.011 set that will fight back a bit more like an acoustic does. Alternatively persevere with the lighter strings and allow your technique to adjust. I play 0.009s on electric and 0.013s on acoustic, but I've been doing it long enough that I can easily adjust my playing to either.

Hi Peter, as Fretty suggested spend some time getting used to the electric doesn't need any where near as much string pressure on the fingerboard.
Sounds like the nut may be a little too high so this could be causing some sharp notes. Have a think about a bone nut cut with the correct string slots should eliminate any sitar sounds.

Also a new neck needs a while to set in.

Don't lower the frets - the more meat means they will last longer before you need a re-fret

Good luck

Yep as Fretty & Woks suggest. I play a lot of acoustic and prefer 11's on my electrics. I cannot even feel 9's on an electric with my callused fingers. Plus tone & volume (to me) is improved.

It's been a long while since I posted any updates - two new puppies and summer weather kind of distracted me.
I think the kit's pretty much finished now and I have to say I'm quite pleased with it for a first build.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I found the intonation was off a bit due to my being used to heavier acoustic strings vs the super slinky's that came with the kit. I'd been wanting to try some D'Addario flat wounds since I'm mostly trying to play jazz, so when our local music store had a deal where you buy a set of strings and they'll do a full setup for you, I jumped at the chance.
For me it's made a huge difference. The intonation is much more consistent and as andrewdosborne mentioned, I found the tone and volume improved as well. The volume I think may be due to the heavier strings generating stronger magnetic fields.
So, now it's just a lot more practising so I can do the guitar justice. That, and continuing progress on my ES-3 build but that may be a fall project again.

Hi Peter, sounds like it all worked out well in the end. Any shots to show off your new baby?

Here are some shots of the finished kit (sans strap buttons - not sure if I'll put them on or not).
Attachment 12184
Attachment 12185
Attachment 12186
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Attachment 12188

nice build Poida well done, the black hardware goes so well with the walnut brown colour

Looks great Peter

love the colour

Just a short update on this build.
I installed a set of Tonerider TRT3 Blues pickups that Adam got Tonerider to ship directly to me (Thanks Adam!) rather than send to AUS first then back across the ocean. They sound (to me) much fuller and resonant than the stock pickups. I'm still pretty much just a hack at playing but it's a heck of a lot of fun.
The upgrade was pretty painless except that the Tonerider bridge pickup is just a tad wider than the one from the kit so I had to get in there with a box cutter to open up the two outside edges by about 1/8" each.
The only thing I've noticed - and it may have been like that before the upgrade - is that when using bridge or neck pup by itself, there is a bit of a hum but when they are both selected (switch in middle position) the hum goes away. Did I mess something up when resoldering? Could it be shielding related?

Probably needs a bit of shielding in those PUP cavities.

Agree with Wazza, sounds like you may be picking up a bit of interference - some copper tape in the cavities may provide some shielding and reduce the hum.

All cavities and back of pick guard have copper tape on them, with the exception of where I opened up the bridge cavity. Will try adding a couple pieces back on to cover those spots.
Curious that the hum disappears when both pickups are active. I would think it would hum regardless of which pup was active if it was a shielding problem. Will let you know after adding shielding tonight.

The two pickups together act as a hum-cancelling pair, as one is reverse wound-reverse polarity so the hum from one is cancelled by the inverse hum from the other. This is standard for single coil pairs like on ST, TL and others.

While you are adding bits to your shielding also check that the shielding has a good ground connection, each cavity's shielng should have some connection to ground.

By the way nice work peter on the tele. looks great. good choice on the Toneriders. I put Hot Classics in mine. I tried it without any shielding (as i've had problems in the past with the components touching the sheilding) and I don't really get much hum. I think Wierdy has explained why.

Anyway great build and great choice in pups.