Thanks! I am reasonably happy with it, even if it was not as idiot proof as I was hoping ;-) Next for the clear coat.
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Thanks! I am reasonably happy with it, even if it was not as idiot proof as I was hoping ;-) Next for the clear coat.
Finally got a bit of work done on my builds. It’s a long weekend here, with just my son and I at home and a little time to do stuff that might get a bit messy…so…
I made some cuts on my headstocks. Sticking with a theme*, I decided to go with a batwing. In a parallel build I realized that I could use the template I used for my precision build on my Jazz bass build/rebuild. That looks a bit more like a hybrid between the old Epiphone batwings from the sixties, and a fender headstock.
Attachment 45215
The tele neck is closer to the shape of the old Epiphones guitar and bass headstocks. I had in mind more of a tribute than a copy.
I also finally got around to re-contouring the neck. This was one of the last of the old Pitbull tele necks. I wanted to take a crack at getting it slimmed down a bit. I like the feel of the my Warmoth Strat neck but it is really thin at the 1st fret (.8” or 20.3mm). I thought it would be dangerous to get it that thin, but decided to go after a modern V contour. Fender’s published stats for this are .85 at the 1st fret and .89 at the 12th. Using mostly just the golden rasp (I used the smaller rasp as well, but it was a bit too course and short), I was able to get it pretty close.
In the process, however, I gouged the wood where the neck contour starts to become the headstock and where it starts to become the heel. In both cases I wanted to extend the neck contour a little. Here’s where more experience with the rasp would have been beneficial. In trying to replicate the curve at to into the heel and headstock, I accidentally made the gouge a little worse. The only solution that I could think of was to remove a bit more wood. That worked reasonably well but had a couple of consequences. 1st the carve is now a bit in between a modern C and a modern V shape. 2nd. It is closer to .82 at the 1st fret and .86 at the 12th. Those are about the depth stats for a Fender Modern C…but I think I have a bit more slope on the sides. Shout out to TD on this. I would not have had the confidence to get this neck as slim as it is without TD’s measurements on the truss rod that he pulled out of PB bass neck. Prior to that I was using StewMac standard truss rods to do the calculations. They are more than 2 mm thicker than the TD’s PB truss rod. His turned out to about the same as every other published thickness for a double action truss rod that I could find. Using the SM measurements I would only have about 3.73 mm of wood under the truss rod. Using TD’s measurements it’s more likely that I still have close to 6mm under the truss rod at the thinnest point.
The neck still needs a bit of finish sanding. It still has a few tool marks and is only sanded down to 120, but it feels pretty good to my uneducated hand. The biggest takeaway for me from this adventure is that the long (10”) golden rasp was the best tool for the job. I used the flat side for most of this. It was sort of in the “Goldilocks” zone for in terms of being coarse enough to so that it did not take forever to do the shaping, but fine enough so that it did not leave the wood too rough or take so much away that I risked going deeper than intended. I have 4 lengths of Golden rasp, and the long one turned out to work the best for me. With 10” I could bet good, long strokes. I thought that my smaller rasp, that had been great carving body contours would be better, but I ended up using the Golden for almost everything.
The other big takeaway for me is that I should have practiced more on concave curves. The convex part of the contour, which is most of the neck carve, went reasonably well using mostly the flat side of the rasp. However, the concave places at the heel and headstock ends of the neck were more difficult. It was easy to gouge the wood and hard to get the curve the way I wanted. Before I do this again, I’ll practice on some scrap until I have it right.
I have always used a router to do headstocks in the past…and the last time I nearly botched the whole thing. I went about it differently this time. I used a jig saw to get big chunks of wood out of the way, then the rasps to get close to the pattern I had drawn. The courser rasps (the Shinto and the small rasp in the pic) worked better than the golden rasp for this since I did not need precision and they removed wood faster. I used a 2” drum sander in the drill press on the slowest setting to get the final shape. Worked well enough that I wondered why I hadn’t done it that way before ;-)
*I had done this previously on a precision bass build here and here.
Is the tele neck flame maple?
Glad the neck carving worked out OK.
For my headstocks I use a jigsaw, then the router method.
Thanks, TD. I am relieved ;-) I was reluctant to try to "free hand" sand along a traced line. I had seen Simon use this approach, but was quite content using the router method which I thought to be more precise and faster. (which it usually is). I actually used an old router template to trace the outline on the bass neck. The router approach has the great advantages of being quick and replicable. It was my go-to approach up to this build. But I had couple of bad experiences with maple, where the bit caught and split the wood along the grain. Once on a headstock. That one shot a piece at me like a projectile. So, I thought I'd give Simon's method a try.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Davies
Like most problems in routing the issue is probably a faulty operator. My bits were good quality and sharp...but also straight. I have read that spiral bits may catch less. There are at least a half dozen other errors I might have made.
Never tried a spiral bit.
I have also had a couple of big splinters fly off when routing. I will sometimes sand some sections after rough cutting with a jigsaw to make it a bit easier on the router. Especially when routing a 4 cm deep body!
Sanding after the jigsaw is a good idea and might have prevented the problem I had with the router on a headstock. The bit caught on an bit of a rough spot, and broke off a chunk of wood that hit me in the chest. Still, done carefully the router is probably a better way to go, particularly if you want to repeat on other headstocks.
It occurred to me while I was using the drum-ander-on-drill-press that it might be a better way to finish up router templates than the way I've done it in the past ;-)
Over the last three days I put 9 coats of High Performance Top Coat on the body.
Attachment 45238
Not a lot of difference from the last pic which was just the garnet shellac finish. But it's hanging from the ceiling, curing. The mfg says that it needs 3 weeks to be completely cured. The mfg also recommends using no more than 3 coats. I always use between 6 and 10 coats because applying it with a brush leaves brush strokes. The mfg says that more coats won't make the finish more durable. That may be, but I like to have the safety of more coats when sand out the brush strokes, tiny bubbles and other imperfections. I do some careful sanding between coats with a 3m maroon sanding pad to scuff. Once if finally cures there will be a ton of careful hand sanding to get it flat without cutting through it, but I am able to get it pretty flat.
This time, when I did the test piece, I thought the finish got a little cloudy. I think I trapped a little H2O by trying to put the coats on too fast. The mfg recommends 1-2 hours between coats. I took at least 3 hours between coats and did no more than three coats per day.
Every time I do this I wonder whether it would be better and faster to use spray equipment. Every time I come to the same conclusion. I can't use spray equipment in my house, and the temperatures and humidity are never reliably low enough to spray outside in Miami. The optimal temperature for High Performance is 21C (70F) with 50% humidity. The humidity in my air-conditioned garage is between 45-60% and the temp is somewhere between 26 and 24C. (78-75F). Outside it's never reliably lower than 27C or higher, and the humidity is never lower than 60%...often it's like today...around 88%.
Looking good fender3x.
re the "better and faster to use spray equipment". I'm not sure if spraying has made it any faster for me compared to when I was using Truoil! But I'm still learning how to spray! I think my spraying time is more concentrated.
Your garage seems to be well climate controlled! Can you potentially spray in there?
Not if I want to stay married. The AC connects with the rest of the house, so it would spread whatever goes into the air to the rest of the house. To keep things cool, the garage "vents" mostly to the rest of the house rather than to outside. Also it functions as my office (I work from home several days a week). I only apply the top coats, shellac, and some no-VOC water-based hardners or grain fillers in the garage. My wife is also an environmental engineer, so there are many ways I can get into trouble. It's also why I use MTN94 pretty much exclusively for color. It does not seem bothered by heat and humidity and is very low VOC, so I can spray outside even in Miami weather, and it can cure indoors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Davies
Fair enough! At least you know your process, it works well, and it doesn't create marital issues!Quote:
Originally Posted by fender3x
Nice piece of wood, Fender3x. It will be a beauty when the hardware is installed.
Thank you! So far I have had pretty decent luck with paulownia. I was not committed to a clear finish, but figured I'd give it a go when I saw the figuring.
I experimented with the Highline Guitars method of doing the transfers. In theory I really like that approach since it since it eliminates the transparent decal paper so that only ink and a very fine layer of water based glue gets transferred to the guitar. In practice I couldn't get it to work. Some part of the logo always seemed to stay stuck to the label paper. I think that DikkyBee's approach would eliminate my ink issue, but I don't think I have the fine motor skills to paint the color on. I've never been good at coloring inside the lines. So I took the conventional ink-jet decal that came out best and put that on. I put 4 coats of very thin 1# cut blonde shellac on the neck, applied with a rag. I am using General Finishes High Performance Satin clear to finish the neck. The top of the headstock got 2 coats below the decal. I then finished the whole neck with 8 coats of clear, and added another 5 coats to the top of the headstock to make sure I'd be able to sand absolutely flat over the decal. I started with a synthetic bristle brush, but ended up using a foam brush to get thinner coats.
I won't finish sand until it has completely cured. The mfg says this takes 3 weeks, but I tend to give it one or two more because I use more coats than they recommend.
Attachment 45287
In other news, I think I am about to complete the parts list for this build with the arrival of long awaited pickups. They shipped yesterday. The US Postal Service tells me that overnight they have gone from Marina California to San Jose...about 100 km. That means they have just around 4800 km left to get to Miami.
Attachment 45288
This is the first time I have ordered pickups like these. I have had good luck with a small custom pickup winder called "Epic Custom Shop." My favorite bass has one of their "black gold" p-bass pickups and it's the best I have heard. I also have a set of their D2 Strat pickups for a build I did for my daughter. On the website (https://epiccustomshop.com/) they have a limited range--just P-bass, J-bass and Strat pickups. But since I have had good luck with them, I asked if they had Tele pickups as well. The proprietor asked me to send him some ideas of what I was looking for, I sent some sound clips, and he wound a set to get those sounds. They have been a long time coming, but I am really looking forward to hearing them.
Also got a "Three String Tree" from Music City Bridge...
https://musiccitybridge.com/products...tring-retainer
...and installed a bone nut.
May not be much progress on this one for a while until the body and neck are fully cured...but at least there's been some slow progress.
That neck looks lovely!
Once i do the final polishing I'll try to get a few pics that do it more justice. This was just a neck I bought on sale from PB, but I turned out to be really nicely figured, especially the fingerboard and back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Davies
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Small progress. I managed to get the body buffed. Still need to use the scratch compound and polish, I like the new buffing system so far!
Attachment 45568
I only used brown bar buffing compound on the body. I used a sort of weird sanding mesh to get it flat sanded that is somewhere between 220 and 320. Then just used 3M sanding pads of maroon and grey.
I have decided not use use the Garnet shellac as a color, and the tool for cleaning buffing wheels came unfinished...so you may notice a striking similarity in the color...
Attachment 45569
...not maybe the smartest thing I have ever done. I have not finished finishing this thing, but have now used up all the matching color of shellac. Oh well...
Attachment 45570
Could not resist taking a look with the parts in place...
The neck is next!
The body is looking great. That tool for cleaning the buffer wheel looks quite mean - but I love the matching colour.
Given the problems I have had with General Finishes High Performance, I decided to refinish at least the back and sides of the neck. On a couple of maple necks, I have had some problems with the finish turning green and bubbling up around the fret ends, and on a bass neck, actually bubbling up.
So, instead of doing finish sanding on the neck, I took the finish all the way off the back of the neck. Reapplied some shellac to get the color back to normal. Will be using Crystalac Brite Tone instrument finish. I have used it before, on one guitar. My technique may need a bit of work...but I guess we'll find out. It seems about as good as any water based finish I can get my hands on here, and can go on with a brush or wiped on. Most people who don't spray, seem to use a brush...so will work on my chops a bit, and then have at it ;-)
I considered taking the finish all they way off and re-doing it...but I figure I can always do that if this doesn't work. I will never use High Performance again, but in fairness it's been fine most places. It's just on the back and sides of the neck that it's been a problem...so far.
I hope I don't regret not taking the finish all the way off...but I haven't had problems with it on my other builds *except* on the sides and bottom of the neck. I have had a little experience using the Crystalac Brite Tone and the General Finishes High Performance together without issue... So hoping for the best.
Attachment 45617
After taking the back and sides down to bare wood, I gave those parts 6 coats of wiped on blonde shellac which brought the color back to being the same as the rest of the neck.
I then put 10 coats of Brite Tone on the back and sides. I spent all 10 coats refining my technique and experimenting with brushes. I think my technique still has a ways to go. I did manage to get the finish on without brush strokes or bubbles..but I got some disconcerting runs and drips, particularly in the early coats.
I auditioned 4 different kinds of brushes. What I have used in the past is a 50mm synthetic sash brush. Essentially a short but ordinary brush that you'd use to paint the window sills inside a house. That got eliminated first, since I couldn't keep off brush strokes. It got relegated to brushing after sanding duty. Second was the foam brush. One of the people at the mfg uses one of these, but I could not lay down a thin coat with it, and could not eliminate bubbles.
That left art store 50mm wide brushes. One was a "golden" 50mm Taklon brush... very fine, very soft, synthetic bristles developed in Japan. The other was a "hake" brush. Same idea but with even finer, even softer goat or sheep bristles. I had less control with the Hake brush so most coats went down with the Taklon brush.
I got much thinner coats with the Taklon brush...but kept getting small drips on the sides or small runs. The mfg told me that was likely because my coats were too thick. I got better at getting them thinner over time, but the breakthrough came when I began to prime the brush with water before dipping into the Brite Tone. That got is considerably thinner and much reduced my drip/run problem. It did not eliminate the problem, but I at least got to the point where I could sand or scrape with a razor blade the small mistakes. With practice I am hoping that I won't need the razor blade.
At the moment it seems to me that the way to develop good brush technique is a bit like the old joke about how you get to Carnegie Hall... Do you have that joke in Australia? Has it been adapted? (e.g. How do you get to the Sydney Opera House?). I think I should stay away from the paint fumes for a while...
If the answer is One step at a time, we do!
Close! I was afraid that the joke might be too US-centric. Carnegie Hall is the most famous concert hall in the US... The joke is that a couple of tourists in New York have tickets to a concert and are trying to find Carnegie Hall. They see a guy in a tux carrying a violin case and figure he's heading there, so they ask "Do you know how to get to Carnegie Hall." He responds "Practice, practice, practice!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Davies
Or… yes, but I wouldn’t start from here …is probably more like our version.
I love this one. I have always thought my Grandfather was Irish, but this sounds so much like him, I am wondering if he might have been Australian.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeirdBits
Reminds me of what they say in in New England when you ask for directions. "Well, you can't get there from here."
The pickguard I have is not drilled for screws, so I can mount the neck pickup to either the body or the pickguard. I was initially thinking I'd mount to the pickguard, but increasingly I am liking the idea of the traditional mount-to-the-body approach. That is, if I can figure out how to mark where the screw holes in go so that they line up properly with the pickguard. Anyone have a good idea for how to do that?
If you mount the neck pup to the body, will it be easy to adjust the height without taking off the guard?
Otherwise, I would use a big blob of Blutac to hold the pup in place!
I had never heard of Blutac, but that looks like it will do the trick. Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Davies
I'll have to take off the pick guard to adjust the pup height. So that's the disadvantage. The advantage (if I understand correctly) is that the guitar will be playable with the pickguard off.
On my other guitar with Tele pups that are in a Strat body the neck pickup is mounted to the pickguard. The problem I had with it when I was doing the initial setup is I stripped one of the holes in the fiber bobbin. I "fixed" that by getting the next larger size adjustment screw. It hasn't been a problem since, but I figured I could avoid the problem altogether by mounting to the body.
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