600 is about the area where you'll start to have bonding issues. I usually won't go higher than 240 before next coats. (That is using two component West systems epoxy.)
I like your dedication in trying finishings.
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600 is about the area where you'll start to have bonding issues. I usually won't go higher than 240 before next coats. (That is using two component West systems epoxy.)
I like your dedication in trying finishings.
They say P600, so it should be fine. My only thought is if the isopropyl is affecting it at all.
hmm, the grain filler version sanded nicely with 400. I'd suggest that. If you are still having adhesion issues on your test pieces, I'd suggest spraying (you can get it in spray can) plastic adhesion primer. It's used on raw plastic bumpers and trim to make paint stick to it.Cleanliness is the key. Make sure you clean the sanding dust from the solarrez of firstf. Alcohol works well and shouldn't effect cured polyester.
Rolf, yes, we use the West epoxy for our boats and this stuff is rock hard when it's cured. The Solarez stuff sands really easily and you can also scratch it easily as well, so I think with P240, you'd take off too much quickly. Just my impression.
Simon, the Isopropyl SHOULD in theory evaporite very quickly, but maybe it really is the culprit. I don't know. I tried to do everything by the book but I don't know..
Rabbit, the adhesion issue is between the different coats of the Solarez, amazingly, the FIRST coat between the wood and the Solarez, is rock solid. It worked itself into the wood and there is no way to get it off besides sanding the wood down. But the subsequent coats seem to be the problem. So maybe P600 really is too fine, or the Isopropyl alcohol is a problem, OR maybe I did something else wrong.
I got nothin'...
Except empathy... I know the pain of having a finish go horribly wrong...
LOL yeah, sh.....t happens :)
In the end, it's gonna be a nice guitar, otherwise it's not the end or something like that. ;)
I'm pretty sure the error is me. So far, I have built like 5 guitars and whatever I did, the finishing process was big trouble every time. You know the joke the IT dudes laugh about, the PEBKAC? Yep.
The ICBIBL stuff isn’t polyester though as far as I can make out). It’s description says it gives a less bright tone to instruments than their UV polyester finish, so I’m assuming it’s sone other polymer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit
And I’ve double checked and it does say 600 grit, which could be the even finer US grit rating as there’s no P in front.
Polyol acrylate from the safety data sheet. https://www.woodessence.com/Assets/P...ICBNL_MSDS.pdf
But I have no idea how that relates to polyurethane at all.
Yeah, they do have an UV reactive polyester as well, but it's not the "I can not believe..." stuff. It's called UV polyester resin or something. Pretty impossible to get here in Europe.
It doesn't, other than they are both plastics. The Solarrez stuff is essentially liquid perspex. Isopropanol should be ok on it, but anything less polar than that and you are looking at potentially dissolving it. Acetone would be the tipping point. IPA would also help with reducing static. That's more of an issue though when you are spraying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Barden
Just a thought, if Acetone dissolves it and you would wipe with acetone between the coats - would that actually help adhering because it softens the top layer? But also, good to know, because if I can't fix it, I could maybe remove it with acetone without sanding into the veneer.
Acetone will certainly remove it but I'm not sure about it 'softening' the top layer. I'm purely guessing here but it will probably dissolve the finish down to a certain depth, with the finish beneath that remaining hard. A bit like a layer of water on ice. There is no 'soft' ice layer in-between the hard ice and the water; it's either water or ice.
You can always try the acetone though.
Have you emailed Solarez yet, as they are the ones who will really know their product.
As the wipe-on version is best applied chilled, and you have been wiping it on rather than spraying (getting it thin enough to spray is why they suggest you warm it up a bit), you might want to have a go using it chilled. I don't know if there is any real difference between the wipe-on and spray-on versions in terms of additives to the main compound, or whether it's mainly just marketing with different application instructions e.g. cool/warm, but the safety data sheet implied it's 99-100% Polyol Acrylate.
Gosh, I hate that stuff with a passion.
I have sanded it down to as far as I dared. Then, on Sunday when it was sunny here, I added two new coats over the course of a 5 hours, each coat sat in full sunlight for 2.5 hours.
Between each coat, I sanded lightly with P400 this time, wiping it only with a dry paper towel, no alcohol, no water. Then, after sanding, I gave it a few more minutes to cure in the sun before adding the second coat. It sanded well with powdery dust, so I think it was fully cured.
After the second coat, I dry sanded up all the grids - P400, P600, P800, P1000, P1200, P1500, P2000, P2500, P3000, P5000.
Then, I hoped to polish - but nothing. I started with my usual polishing paste (rot-weiß), but no gloss. Then, I tested Autosol - no gloss. Then, I tried the highly abrasive rot-weiß Rubin paste, and now it's just weird. Not gloss, not matte - I don't know what this is.
I really don't know what to do with this stuff, other than throwing it out the window. I think I did almost everything by the book and it does not work. I even used my power drill to polish - this stuff glosses up old cars, why doesn't it work with this?
Now, the only options left is - I think - either live with it (but I hate it) or add something on top to gloss it up. I don't know what would work on top of the Solarez, though. I know that polyurethane doesn't.
Really unhappy right now :(
Forgot the pics...
Don't know if this link will work, but maybe check out:Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatCluelessGerman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjK1e2nFrxw
I think I've watched it 3 times so far.
Have you asked Solarez about the issues your getting?
Yes, but not the US branch. Maybe I should write them directly. But to be honest, I'm not motivated enough to care anymore. Maybe I'll just paint this thing black and scratch some of the color away to reveal the pink. I mean, it can't get any uglier anyway.
You could try getting a piece of scrap, throw some of the solarez at it, scruff it up , and throw some plastic adhesion primer at it (it's clear). Then throw some poly at it and see if it sticks.
Always go to the manufacturer rather than a distributor if you can. I’ll need to get back to re-finishing the 5-string bass soon, so I’ll see how my brush-on version polishes up.
Really sorry it hasn’t worked for you. I know how painful a bad finish can be, with all that wasted effort.
Yes, my sentiments as well. And owning a guitar that you don't even want to pick up is a horrible feeling.Quote:
Really sorry it hasn’t worked for you. I know how painful a bad finish can be, with all that wasted effort.
Or I've heard (not tested myself) that a layer of shellac will take anything you put on top
Or should go over any finish.
Quote:
Or I've heard (not tested myself) that a layer of shellac will take anything you put on top
I also was going to suggest shellac (as it is usually my go-to) but not having any knowledge of the Solarez, I didn't put it out out there.Quote:
Or should go over any finish.
Given the blotchy delaminated appearance of the existing finish, I'm not sure if a shellac coat followed by a new clear (poly?) is going to hide it like poly over poly or lacquer over lacquer tends to do. Nothing to loose at this point I guess.
Mhhh. I do have some shellac here. But will the shellac stick to the Solarez? I also heard that everything likes to stick to shellac, but will the shellac stick itself? ;)
I'm pretty confident that the blotchy look could be fixed, it's gone when wetting the surface OR when putting another layer of Solarez on top - the problem is, that when putting on another layer, it's not going to look level, so you need to sand it - but after sanding, I get this blotchy look and it will not start to shine when polishing. I had a similar problem with polyurethane on my last guitar, so chances are good the problem is me. I just don't know what I'm doing wrong.
Without being there, or you videoing everything you do, it’s impossible to tell. It’s probably not you though.