Thanks for the tip on sealing the binding, I have some of the water based poly. 👍
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Thanks for the tip on sealing the binding, I have some of the water based poly. 👍
I want to see the binding first hand, but I have never played with binding and don't even know how to attach it.....and I was thinking about shaping the headstock and then curling some more binding around the edge of that design to match the binding already along the neck.
I think that the binding will need to be cut on an angle to sit in along the edge of the headstock at the nut. Then also cut and bevelled to meet the edges I may cut in. That will be fun too.
Honestly binding did scare the crap out of me. But since the poly thing I am fine with taking my time and sealing it up first.
The fitting of binding is something I have never done. I bought a stewmac router fitting to cut the groove for it and have never used it.
A bit of careful chisel work, a bit of sanding on the purfling and you’ll get there. This is on my ES-3.
Personally I use acetone to adhere it to the wood but I know others have used super glues.
I agree with you Rabbit. A healthy dose of caution is not a bad thing, but it seems many treat the veneer like it was rice paper.Quote:
I'm not convinced that the veneer tops are quite as fragile as we are led to believe. The top on the violin bass is also thin veneer and had no issues when sanding it. I think that people are working too hard. The paper will do the work without needing to use massive amounts of pressure.
Admittedly I have only done one PBG kit with veneer, but during my pre-dye prep, post-dye de-nibbing and clear coat process, I was never concerned about burning through it. Mostly because it required very little prep work or between coat sanding and the paper grades needed were light enough that you'd almost have to try to sand through it.
I would definitely avoid using power tools though :p.
I have seen the recommendation to use Acetone.....I have some wax and grease remover....same stuff isn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkMark
It is a clear liquid not much removed from water in consistency. I would rather run a little of that up the back edge of the binding/purfling then run the risk of creating glue spots with CA glue.
Mark, did you just brush it / dribble it / squirt it onto the binding and then tape it in place? Or was there some other magic involved?
The track your parcel thing had the guitar in Sydney yesterday.....I reckon Fri or Mon for delivery here.
I am waiting to see the nature and size of the binding used on the body and neck, and also the colour of the dots on the fretboard. The listing stated they were mother of pearl...maybe they are real or black pearl, as the photos have them nearly abelone in colour.
The luthier supply place on the Gold Coast has a tortoiseshell plastic binding and heaps of different styles of dots from plastic to abelone.
Really keen to just see this one.
The first guitar kit I built was an LP from Artist Guitars and it has a flame maple veneer and I followed what big d did in his youtube vid and am very happy with the way it turned out.
I struggle to upload pics on the forum but here is the post with pics of the finished guitar.
https://www.buildyourownguitar.com.a...ad.php?t=11182
Yeah....I am waiting to see how the veneer is upon arrival. But, I am still keen to level it a little.....maybe just some 320/360 grit before the stain.....then 400 to rip the colour out...then some 600 after the last yellow coat.Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
I have been looking at the photos and I do like the finish Big D achieved in his Nuclear Burst....thanks for that idea Dave Sloan.
I am thinking Nuclear Burst on the top.....a wooden colour not mahogany on the side to try and pull a colour to meet or match the spalt on the headstock....and then the back in straight RED. (The Angelus Red gets some amazing respect for BIG D and others on YouTube and the net.)
Maybe the back of the neck in the same colour as the the side and the headstock.
Some many choices....so nervy.
Have a look at some of his other youtube videos on hand rubbed bursts, you can blend the colours in really well, I have just finished a burst on the PB tele that I am nearly finished building
and an happy with the result.
The place in D Bay is well priced and as you say nice and local. I live on Mt mee.
https://scontent.fbne5-1.fna.fbcdn.n...c8&oe=606C463C
Hopefully this opens, this was a quick mock up of the burst before spraying the clear.
The neck looks really good, I will try and put up a few pics as soon as its all togeter.
Are you suggeting that maybe a belt sander with 40 grit may not be the best tool for the job?:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
The bloke at the shed who does guitars showed me one with tortoiseshell binding. It looked way better than the usual plastic binding, which in my mind, makes a guitar look cheap. He was able to get it for a bargain because apparently hardly anyone uses the stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzbike
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzbike
First of all acetone is very flammable and will absorb into the skin, use appropriate PPE and good ventilation.
I brush it on the wood and binding about three times with a small brush. If you’re prepared you can even dissolve a little binding in a GLASS jar with a bit of acetone into a slurry to have at hand if you feel you need it to fill a gap, cut it up small and give it time. Because I only have painters tape I used an alternative method to masking tape (painters tape doesn’t stick strong enough). I found a way to use my off cuts and wedges (about page 6 or 7 ES-3 diary).
I’m not sure what degreaser is, Xylene? Shellite? These aren’t acetone.
If you cut your channel so the binding sits a little proud of the wood you can sand down to level.
Edit: oh yeah, you may need to pre bend binding using heat depending on you headstock shape.
Wax and grease remover is more like Shelite than Acetone.
So can I buy acetone at the big green shed or is it a chemist job?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers
Thank you so much for the garage tutorial. I have place marked this post. Thank You. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkMark
Well I was about to head out to try and wrestle some stuff from the Big Green Shed and there was a knock at my door. My postie parcel guy....the box arrived one day early...nice.
The investigator in me noted quickly that the box was covered in DHL tape...perhaps it is an overseas return.
Upon opening I would have to say that this is the most attention grabbing kit I have ever attempted. It is so pretty right out of the box. Just amazing.
Here she is before any silliness is attempted.
Wow...and then more wow.
Yeah some more bits and nudie pics.
Two lonely orange drop caps. :)
I think these kits are sent to challenge us. The top is really screaming to me to just leave it natural. The strings appear to be 11 to 46....how heavy is that. I use 8's or 9's....wow.
Two glue spots....and a bit of a gap and some gloop on one horn corner. Otherwise not too bad a starting point at all. I see a couple of lines from sanding on the lighter areas....and some tearing in softer bits of the spalted veneer.
I am thinking that for this build to be LOUD it does need the burst finish. To look pretty it just needs a clear finish.
I am leaning towards loud though. With a dufus designed nut design and truss rod cover. I may even try some binding....have to source acetone now....the real deal.
I have ordered some tortoise binding from the Gold Coast fellow, some binding tape, and some Paua Abelone dots.....I really dont think the neck dots are Mother of Pearl.
He lists the binding as Tortoise and the kit has it as Tortoiseshell....and the kit looks a little different to the A.L.S. photo. Well nobody else seem to have it on the net in Australia.
You can get acetone at the big green shed. Fun times ahead.
Bunnies & SCA have acetone.
https://www.bunnings.com.au/diggers-...lvent_p1567459
https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/...=en_AU&start=1
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkMark
I got a 250ml bottle of Acetone at the BGS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers
I am afraid that I have 3 others in the line before this one. Some looking, drooling and planning time to pass as the others are complete.
I did some taping up of the edges to allow me to poly the binding last night. I ran my hands down the frets.....wow they are rough and sharp.
This is the second bound neck in a kit I have found rough ends on. It does show the fine detail work we builders do. I actually smiled when I thought to myself that this was another thing I had to do.
I think we are a little strange we G.A.S. sufferers. 😎
Seems perfectly normal to me...Igor.. what do you think?Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzbike
Normal hey. Phew I thought I was weird. Ha ha ha.Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankenWashie
Today I finished the tape up around all the binding....then I hit the binding with 240, 360, 400, 600 grit paper and then 0000 grade steel wool.
Then I looked at the front and back of the body....sides all taped at this time.....hmmmm.
Bugger it I thought. I have very lightly sanded the veneer and solid back with 240, 360, and then 400 grit. The veneer has cleaned up really nicely. A few lines remain...but I am not going to bother too much. I looks really nice. So far so good. Phew.
P.S. I did the fret ends and rolled the edges of the fret board as I did the sanding on the binding. I have a couple of fret files....one flat one and one triangle one with sanded safe edges on them. Nice feeling on the frets and the edge of the fingerboard now. 😎
First time in weeks of no sleep for me last night. So early hours of this morning I attacked the burst on the body.
I will leave it now and then consider to sand or not to sand. It is still wet, it will be interesting to see if it brightens up when dry.
I have to say the Angelus dyes were easy to work with. They smell very much of alcohol, much like the Feast Watson dyes.
The veneer, as somebody posted before, is a lot more robust that I allowed. But, I would come nowhere near it with a mechanical device at all.
I did not use a liquid to try and spot any glue marks....veneer fear...and it bit me a little. A heap of edge glue marks and a clump at the bottom join. I did two wipe overs hard with Goof Off...more three colour stain...and I can barely see anything now.
That's a gorgeous sleepless night's work.
Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk
Gaaahddamn that’s gorgeous! Nice work Oz!Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzbike
Quote:
Originally Posted by dozymuppet
Thank you gentlemen and Igor, of course. I can tell you...seriously tired now. But gotta make it until tonight or I will be awake at 0300 tomorrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankenWashie
I think that after lunch I will dribble some Tru-Oil on there. I wonder if it will make it too dark though?
The mix of the spalt on the edges and the flame in the middle is amazing....and pretty too.
Edit:-
Just ducked upstairs whilst the hot dogs were cooking. Wiped over the front with Tru-Oil and was amazed at the flame it found. The back is just solid red and gave her a rub with Tru Oil too.
I think I will do about 3 coats of Tru Oil. Three of spray gloss polyurethane and then seal and level with CA glue. It should then be just hand compound, hand buff and hand wax up well. :)
Edit Edit:-
No timbermate...and only minimal sanding so far. The sides will need proper prep and sanding. The neck as well.
The back maybe will just fill with the CA glue (I hope.)
I am tossing up about using the side colour on the headstock so I can make it gloss too with decals.
I'm a bit confused. If you are using Tru Oil, why poly as well, and if you are using poly, why bother with Tru Oil?Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzbike
Firstly a personal choice based on the result I have achieved from previous builds. Secondly I really like the effect the Tru-Oil has on the grain and figure in wood. I have had more than one build where flame has been hidden and only comes to view upon the application of Tru Oil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit
I really am not one of the multiple layers of Tru-Oil fraternity. But the effect is too easy to achieve. I will leave it hang for about a week after the last Tru-Oil coat.
I have been having great results with the Cabots Red Label (Marine) Polyurethane in aerosol cans. It is dearer than the other one the big green shed has of the Cabots....which is interior use only.
I am really liking the finish I get with this stuff, and really quickly too. I can spray 3 coats 10 minutes apart, 2 days later light sand and repeat. Then so on until I get to wet-sand at 1500 to 2000.
The alternate finish I use is the Fine Buffing Oil from Feast Watson. It is applied with 0000 steel wool only. I do about 7 coats of that stuff. Then 4 coats of the Gillys Cabinetmaker Wax to seal up the finish and provide a little protection. This is the combination I use on my natural oiled finishes.
For gloss finishes and to cover and help bursts and heavy stain work I like Polyurethane as it is so easy to finish.....cut with compound, wax and buff.
The Tru oil gives great depth to the finish and detail in the wood. But it does provide only limited robust protection to the finished guitar. Poly gives me a great finish that is tough....but it is just like covering the surface in plastic, in that it does nothing at all to develop the grain. So, I have found that a combination of the two gives me both. Develop the grain with tru oil, and protect and gloss and shine with the Polyurethane.
EDIT:- The CA glue was recommended by a couple of people on here, and I tried it in my previous headless bass build. The Bass was also a customer return and came with a zebra wood veneer. The CA glue helps keep the veneer in one piece and definitely does fill the pores.
Maybe I should do as others have done and just finish the CA glue with compound and wax. But again, I find that it too falls short. It is just like clear plastic and scratches easily. I find the Poly is very forgiving, and using oil base poly allows me to apply it over Tru Oil and over CA Glue.
👍 that’s a great staining job!
Thank you Mark...I am most humble. It was easy with the leather dyes and a good video to follow.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkMark
I look at the colours on this build...and I don't know. But this is the first coat of spray Cabots Exterior Gloss polyurethane.
The top is showing some pits in the veneer...absolutely no pore filling undertaken...and only light sanding up through the grits...then scared shaking sanding to drop the colour depth.
I do think that a guitar of this shape needs to say LOUD. I think this is loud...even though it is little removed from the more natural colours I do.
Let us see how it dries and shines....Another spray of poly in a few days and then sand lightly to even the bumps at 600 grit. Then at least two wiped coats of CA glue and see how that levels things.
Sadly,
This is a close to the original tortoise shell binding I can find....I have ordered and received three different lots. So I have decided to not hack the headstock up and try and fit the binding.
Today I have roughly shaped and fitted the new nut...made from a slab of TUSQ material. I think it will be quite high and will need a reshape and smooth after the strings etc are fitted.
I have laid one strip of binding across the end of the nut. The Truss rod cover is six strips of binding cut to shape and glued to a three ply veneer wooden back plate.
The wood will allow me to undercut the truss rod cover to butt up hard against the strip behind the nut.
I will leave this to dry over night and attack with files and sandpaper tomorrow.
I have 12 paua 6mm dots. I think I will lay out the dots across the strip behind the nut and in some pattern along the truss rod cover.
My hand is wobbly, but I am tempted to try and etch some design into the Truss Rod Cover with my BGS Dremel look-a-like hand tool. But, I think the dots will do the job for me.
One more piccie.....
I have one query.....does anybody know how I am going to smooth and seal this stuff up????
I can sand and file the blob into the black and white paper template shape quite easily. But, it will have gaps, rises and lows. Is there anyway to try and even this out.....or am I just going to have to put up with the fact that I made this from binding and not pickguard material?
I shaped and sanded this and completely finished it....it looks like crap....bin.
I have taken the kit truss rod cover and drilled two 6mm holes and mounted 2 pieces of the paua dots in those holes.
The line of binding across the back of the nut also has two dots...but is a little more messy and will need some more work.
The truss rod cover has been scrapped it looked like junk. I have used the kit TRC with two Paua dots inlaid. I have got the body and the neck together now. Fitted the bigsby down the centre line of the maple veneer and it lines up pretty well.
Adjust the wildly high nut...my handywork....and put a set of strings on and I will love to hear how she plays.
Partial setup has been done on the neck...smooth level frets with nice ends. (Bridge height, intonation and string height at first fret to go.)