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I can't say for sure about the mixing of the stain & grain filler, but gut feeling is there could be an issue with water & oil.
I'll be interested to see it sanded back. One observation though, is that is the tightest looking grain I've seen for Ash so you may not get a very strong contrast between the grain and non-grain fibres. You'll know better once it's sanded.
Watching with interest (still :D).
Nice work mate, I see you're much more refined in your approach and execution then I am/was!
My build is here
Interestingly I recently made a les paul junior (not a kit - from an old door) and went with a string through which I didn't do on my TL-1HA, and although my ferrules are not aligned perfectly I'm not too concerned as it will have no impact other than aesthetics.
Keen to see yours once finished!
Thanks - Initially it looks like it mixed okay. But after a while the filler was settling to the bottom.Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
If it looks like a dogs dinner I'll sand it all the way back and get some acrylic filler.
Thanks RB - I read your diary cover to cover whilst waiting for my kit to be delivered - nice job! Have you done any upgrades to the hardware?Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingBull
I've also got some black pup rings as the white one look a bit odd. But I noticed that the pup routes look too big to actually screw them the body. I think in the screw holes will be too close the edge for comfort and in one case I think it misses the body entirely. I do like the look of the rings but without also looks good too.
Hi mate I actually never fitted the black rings as the pups sat niceley right in the pickguard and I loved that look way better. The rings would be necessary if you needed to raised the pup height, but on this style guitar it's just not necessary.
I've since sold that guitar, and now make them from scratch just ordering the parts from various places.
I was going to do a pitbull double cutaway junior but wasn't sold on the body shape. So made my own. Going to make a baretta style next.
Yesterday I sanded back the grain filler - it looked okay, if a little pale.
In one area I over did it and sanded right back to wood - so rather than fix it I sanded the whole lot back.
Today, I raided my wife's art box for some black oil paint. I think that mixed with the grain filler has given a much better result:
Attachment 39530 Attachment 39531
You can see obvious differences in the patterns from each of the pieces used for the body. But I'm not so worried about that.
I think I'll sand it back by hand this time so I can be controlled.
That looks real good now.
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Hey bud, im doing what youve done, replacing the fret dots from black to white pearl, thats because im staining my neck, fretboard and all to a darker colour. Thanks for a good read and some pre tried advice.
No worries - good luck - I'm excited to see your results!Quote:
Originally Posted by nitroburner1000
This evening was back to sanding... again - this time to remove the excess grain filler. I hate sanding the sides - I just can't seem to keep it scratch free. This time I went up through the grits to P600 to try and descratch.
I got to the point where I was relatively happy (read bored of sanding) so I thought I'd see what would happen if I applied a little black stain to the sides.
Before I knew it, I'd done this:
I found this to be a really cathatic process. I've been watching a lot of Big D Guitars on YT for technique and inspiration. In my head I could hear his voice... "now I'm gonna come back with a little yellow"...
Aaanywaaay, I'm quite pleased with the result - it looks just how I'd imagined it. But I'm concious that adding the top coats will darken it a ton. So I think I should lighten the colour a little with wirewool perhaps? Is this the best thing to use?
I might just ligthen the centre as I really want the black to stay a deep black...
Nooooooooooooooooo!!! (that's a slow motion "no" like you see in the movies :o)Quote:
So I think I should lighten the colour a little with wirewool perhaps? Is this the best thing to use?
Steel wool is the devil and has no place in guitar building (or general woodworking for that matter) IMO.
Synthetic sanding pads (3M brand or similar) are the way to go. I have railed and ranted about this in numerous threads and forums. They are available in a range of grits from a 0000 equivalent to very coarse. However I only use them for the the fine textures as traditional coarse sandpaper works perfectly well.
IIRC, Big D uses a RO sander for this which I also disagree with, but to each his own.
That's a nice looking burst too! Well done.
Gotta agree with Mcreed about use of steel wool on the body.
Looking good and w oiukd suggest a true clear for top coats, acrylic or poly, but not Tru Oil as that does add a slightly darker shade that can transform black into a dark brown shade.
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Good point on using a "clear" clear Waz.Quote:
Looking good and w oiukd suggest a true clear for top coats, acrylic or poly, but not Tru Oil as that does add a slightly darker shade that can transform black into a dark brown shade.
Oh yeah, that's the stuff mate. Nice burst job! Polite applause from the lab (essentially as all my burst attempts have been rubbish).Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovyman32
Oh really? Thanks for the steer.Quote:
Originally Posted by wazkelly
Can you recommend a product? I see Minwax used a lot in the US but that doesn’t seem to be widely available in the UK.
After a bit of scouting around it seems you can thin down regular poly varnish? Anyone tried that?
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Absolutely. This is a drum I have beaten to death here and elsewhere...Quote:
After a bit of scouting around it seems you can thin down regular poly varnish? Anyone tried that?
Wipe-on poly that you buy at a hardware or paint store is simply polyurethane that has been thinned, then marketed and sold at 3 times the price. I've been mixing my own home-brew wipe-on poly for years.
50/50 Polyurethane (oil based)/Mineral Turps and your laughing. I can never remember what they call call turps in the UK (white spirit maybe???) but hopefully you know what I mean. Turpentine.
Great thanks - I'll give that a go.Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
Yeah, actually I've got a bit confused between turps, naptha, white spirit and mineral spirits. According to google real turps and white spirit are not the same:
So it seems that white spirit might be right thing for this? I just need something to thin down the poly?Quote:
Real turpentine is a natural product taken from a trees sap. White spirit is a distillate of paraffin oil. Turps substitute is a distillate of petroleum. White spirit is a far cleaner and better thinners than turps, and to the touch feels less oily.
Test fit after the colour has dried...
Attachment 39555
The yellow needs lifting somehow. Hopefully sanding back will help. I might touch in the black around the neck and cutaway so the yellow doesn't poke through.
I also want to swap the scratch plate for a single ply - I'm not sure the white is doing a lot for the look.
That is my understanding also. White Spirit (UK) = Mineral Turpentine (AUS). And yes, 50/50 (1:1) White Spirit/Polyurethane.Quote:
So it seems that white spirit might be right thing for this?
Looking at Big D's video, a bit sanding in the middle followed another hit of yellow dye should get you where you want.
I have not done a stain burst other than mucking around on scrap, so can only go by what I've seen on YT.
Yours is looking really good though! It's a shame that body requires such a prominent pickguard. It would be nice to show off more of your hard work there!
For the scratch plate - could you use a black permanent marker (or paint!) to cover the white plastic strip in the 3-ply.Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovyman32
That's looking great! (I'd be tempted to try and get the same effect on the headstock if this was my project...)
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Hmm interesting idea [emoji848]Quote:
Originally Posted by dozymuppet
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Perfect thanks - all the bits should arrive today (thanks Prime) so I can get on it this week.Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
Yeah that was my idea. Sand, add more yellow and very light sand again. I’m assuming the poly will change the colour? Or as it’s clear it will totally transparent?Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
Thanks - yeah it’s a shame to cover it up with a massive scratch plate. I thought about making two smaller plates, one for the switch and one for the control cavity. Then I could mount the pup rings to the body. But I think the pup routes are too big todo this.Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
You might think it’s a bit daft to try a burst finish with this kit as the guard is so big. But the real story is that I also have a 2 piece alder body and roasted maple neck from a UK based builder. So while they were being built I ordered the PB kit to practice on. I have no prior experience so I felt I could make my noob mistakes on the kit.
I didn’t want to build two identical standard looking teles and a chat with a mate got me Jonesing for a 70’s deluxe tele. I was planning this same finish on the alder tele so I’m practicing it on the PB kit. But the long term plan is that if I can avoid ruining the PB kit and make a playable guitar then I’ll refinish it - may be in Danish Pete purple? I think that would suite the 70’s vibe?
Another option is to keep the yellow burst on the 70’s and do a similar burst on the alder tele - may be red/brownish to yellow. I always liked Fender’s sienna sunburst....
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My plan yesterday was to work more on the body but since I’ve changed direction on the top coat finish I had wait for some bits to arrive.
So I turned my attention back to the neck. After watching a few vids I had a go at levelling the frets. I think that went okay - my rocker was a-rockin’ before and but wasn’t after.
I used an 8” Crimson guitars levelling beam with a piece of P240 stuck on using the masking tape and super glue trick.
I’m now on to crowning which seems a bit of black art. I’m using a Hosco crowning file which I think is doing the job. It seems most of the pros prefer a triangle file for more control over the crown shape. But I’m not a pro... so...
I’ll finish this process today...
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I finished the crowning and polished with grits from 400 up to 1000. I was planning to 0000 wire wool but I forgot. Instead I went at it with my (not) dremel with a polishing wheel and compound. I'm quite pleased with how they look. They're shiny, seem to be round on the top and level.
Attachment 39582 Attachment 39583
Zooming into the pictures you can still see some scratches and tops look a bit flat - this might the be light? You can't see the scratches with the naked eye.... And I still have a little bit sharpness when I run my hand down the ends of the fret board - much better than it was but I might revisit to address these niggles.
I think the neck is nearly ready for finish. My plan is a couple of coats of tru-oil to seal and then maybe a wax. I'm still contemplating the idea of a stain to match the body on the headstock face - but either way I think I'll add more coats of oil to get more of a shine - like they do on the Elite strats.
First, not using the steel wool was a happy accident. You can find numerous anti-steel wool posts of mine here if you're so inclined.Quote:
I was planning to 0000 wire wool but I forgot. Instead I went at it with my (not) dremel with a polishing wheel and compound.
As for the rotary tool, some say it's ok, others not so. There is an argument that a rotary tool will heat the fret wire too much and potentially soften any glue causing the fret to lift. It's not without merit, but I think there are a number of variables to be considered. I have done it a few times in the past, but have changed my method for other reasons.
The best way to do this is with a fret end file. There are videos on YT that show (varying) ways to do this.Quote:
And I still have a little bit sharpness when I run my hand down the ends of the fret board - much better than it was but I might revisit to address these niggles.
If you don't have a proper fret end file, it can be done with a flat or triangular jeweller's file BUT the files should be modified to have "safe edges". You should start with good quality jeweller's files, not $5 sets you get at the dollar store.
I just posted about this yesterday showing my DIY files. I also have a proper fret end file that cost about $35AU for the one file, but I use both my DIY safe edge files and that one regularly.
Here's the photo I posted yesterday on similar but different topic:
Attachment 39586
Not a great pic, but hopefully demonstrates the concept well enough.
Those fret dots look great too!
I see. This did seem to make a big difference - they felt a lot smoother after buffing and I don't recall there being much heat. I found the biggest risk was the tool slipping and hitting another part of the board or neck. This happened a couple times but I'd followed the Crimson masking tape pattern and it just bounced off. It was then I realised why he'd used so much tape!Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
Nice - I guess you need a grinder to dull the edges?Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
Some guys use a grinder (preferably a surface grinder, not a grinding wheel) but you have to be careful not to overheat the file or it will loose temper.Quote:
Nice - I guess you need a grinder to dull the edges?
Since they're so small, I just do mine by hand with a carborundum stone (silicon carbide). Then I polish them with wet/dry paper. It doesn't take long. If I was doing a large file or a quantity, I'd maybe consider using my grinder.
Stain v2.0
Attachment 39597
Used a sanding pad to knock back some of the black and a lot of the yellow. Then added more yellow and evened out the black.
It's looking more Fender three tone SB than I wanted. But that's okay. I think I might do one more round of sanding and yellow stain.
Looking good. Look forward to seeing it with the clear coat!
Thanks! With wipe on poly, it's the same process as Tru-Oil, right? Keep building up many layers until the shine happens?Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
The short answer is yes.Quote:
Thanks! With wipe on poly, it's the same process as Tru-Oil, right? Keep building up many layers until the shine happens?
Everybody has their own method, but I don't sand between coats and only do the first sand after there are a sufficient number of coats that it starts to develop a sheen. This could be 6-8 coats (YMMV).
From there I only sand as needed to de-nib or remove debris, and again not necessarily between every coat.
When I say "sand" I don't actually use sandpaper, but synthetic abrasive pads (synthetic steel wool). If I had to use sandpaper, it would be wet/dry P800-P1000 used dry and very light pressure.
As I said there are as many methods as there are builders. This is just mine. Some will agree, others not...
Thanks - I'm hoping to start this in the next couple of days :)
I put the first poly coat on just now - I'm not sure I've done it properly. I used 50/50 poly/white spirit.
The top and back seemed to go on thinly and evenly, but on the sides it just didn't seem to want to stick. It was evaporating off as quickly as I was wiping it on.
Is this normal? Perhaps the black stain is making the effect more apparent on the sides than on the top and back?
I’ll try another coat in a few hours’ time.
Also, another noob question. Of course, I mixed way too much – how long will it be usable for? I wrapped it in an airtight plastic bag to try to prolong its life.
I can understand a different appearance on the end grain, but not the sides where the grain is running the same as top/bottom.Quote:
The top and back seemed to go on thinly and evenly, but on the sides it just didn't seem to want to stick. It was evaporating off as quickly as I was wiping it on.
Also I would say the poly mixture is absorbing not evaporating (or at least should be). Presuming you use the right solvent, the UK equivalent to turpentine not something like denatured alcohol (aka methylated spirits) which will genuinely evaporate rapidly. However I'm not sure that poly and alcohol would mix without a very obvious and immediate reaction.
With the end grain, it should eventually start to build up and look the same as the long grain. It would certainly have a different appearance with only one coat. Wipe on poly (and Tru Oil) will build up slowly as each coat are literally only microns thick.
IME, my batches have lasted anywhere from a few days to a week+, but our respective climates a are quite a bit different. I have no idea why mine have gone off at varied rates, and the end results range from an obvious change in colour and slight thickening, to a complete gelling.Quote:
Also, another noob question. Of course, I mixed way too much – how long will it be usable for? I wrapped it in an airtight plastic bag to try to prolong its life.
Okay maybe that’s what I’m seeing, the sides do seem better. The second coat went on the sides and ends much better then the first - so I think I might be okay. I’ll persevere for a couple more coats.
In the meantime, in between coats I did a thing. I was browsing around and ended up ordering a gotoh bridge, CTS pots, some orange drop caps, switch craft socket and switch and some SD phat cats HB sized P90s.
So now I’m really committed to making this thing play well! [emoji846]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovyman32
Hah! These things happen...
A mere slip of the mouse. There's not a lot you can do about that unfortunately...
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Here's coat three still wet.
Attachment 39669 Attachment 39670 Attachment 39671 Attachment 39668
I very lightly sanded the top and back with P800 before the third coat as there were some drag marks from the second - that seems to have sorted them out.
The sides and ends are taking the poly well now but look a bit rough. Not sure if it's the grain or bumps (innies or outies). I guess sand those on the next coat?
How often should I be changing the rag? I'm still using the same one and just sealing it in a plastic bag between coats?
And what should I be using to protect my lungs from this stuff? I'm using a lightweight DIY mask with the shed door wide open - so well ventilated - but I'm still coming out with my head spinning... lightweight
Must tidy up the shed
Looking pretty primo there
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