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The bobbin sander has arrived. Not ridiculously large, but too tall to fit on a lower shelf in the garage, so it will need to sit on top of one.
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Didn't come with any instructions. It's not rocket science to put it together, but some would have been nice without having to chase some up on the web. At least all the other parts were there. Works well.
That was quick! IIRC, you only ordered a few days ago.
Have you investigated to easy/difficult it would be to mount a larger DIY-made table on it? I think that would make working on larger pieces, like bodies, easier.
Now go make us some "man glitter"!
Amazon deliveries in the mainland UK are very quick, especially if delivered by Amazon themselves rather than by post or courier. Amazon Prime is normally next day if ordered before 5pm, though there is a growing tendency for two days as demands on them during lockdown have increased considerably. Non-Prime orders are normally 2-3 days. But most online ordering from UK web sites generally takes only 1 or 2 days to arrive.
I don’t think I’d have a problem with most guitar bodies on the current table, though maybe a long one like an Explorer or Explorer bass would be more difficult. The table at the rear is about twice as long as at the ‘front’. But the table is steel, so it would be possible to drill and tap holes in it to bolt on a larger wooden table. You’d just have to rout a hole and an indent for the various round plastic rings that allow dust to be sucked diwn through them.
The unit has mounting holes on its base so it can be bolted down for stability, but I didn’t have any issues doing the end of a guitar neck on it yesterday in a free-standing mode.
That's good to know if I ever decide to upgrade to the Aussie version that Cliff posted. Thanks!
Well this all went horribly wrong after going right for so long.
Got it all sprayed up nicely, and in the process of getting the finish superbly flat, sanded through on a couple of corners.
No problem thought I, I'll just touch it up with a brush, then another couple of coats for good measure.
Except those coats then bubbled up in places and the finish all went soft.
Ended up stripping the paint off the body and having to start again. That entailed having to totally clear out the garage yesterday, remake some clothes drawers that are used to store tools as the runners had collapsed so they wouldn't open so I couldn't get my tools out, and throw away enough stuff so I could get to the drawers without having to move other boxes of stuff. It was 32°C yesterday.
Today I used the heat gun to strip the paint off because it was now so soft that it instantly clogged up any sandpaper. Even putting the body own on a towel left imprints in the finish. The heat gun and a scraper did most of the job, before the sander could then finish off 70% of the body, with the last 30 was done by hand. It is 34°C here today. I am rather sweaty!
Was going to post some photos but that can wait until its cooled down!
Damn that's frustrating. :(
I definitely feel your pain Simon. I've had to start over again after the "last coat" before... frustrating.
I can also relate to your garage scenario, or at least the principle of having to complete jobs 2 & 3 before starting job #1!
I've lost count of the number of times a "5 minute" job turned into half a day!
Oh well, maybe something really good will come out of it.
I feel obligated to post this again
https://youtu.be/AbSehcT19u0
Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk
Here are the photos.
Started stripping back with the belt sander but the paint just clumped up and clogged the belt paper (60 grit) so I stopped and moved over to the hot air gun. The white is some more primer/filer I used to try and build up the areas that had bubbled and sanded back to wood. You can see how the soft paint has amassed on the surface:
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This was the other side after laying it down on the towel to sand the rear. You can see the pattern the towel made as the finish was just so soft. Even though it had generally sanded down very well and was flat and felt quite hard. The base colour had been drying for over two weeks, before I sprayed more on top, and that had then been drying almost two weeks I think my problem may have been using thinners with a retarder in and thinning down too much, and so getting too much retarder in there:
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Body stripped back to wood, with no trace of the original factory sealer coat:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...922/i15VLj.jpg
A very thinned (no retarder) first light coat of blue to get the finish into the wood:
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I've just sanded this back flat after leaving it to dry for a couple of days and dealt with any deeper sanding marks this highlighted. I will do another thinned coat later today once it's cooled down a bit as it's 30°C outside ATM.
My compressor is playing up. Turned it on to spray the next coat, ran for a while then the note changed and it kept running and running. Warily I went up to it, but the pressure gauge didn’t increase any more.
So either the pressure cut-off switch isn’t working, or there’s a leak and it can’t increase the pressure to the point it will switch off.
So something else to look at. If I can’t fix it simply, I may just get a smaller, quieter compressor. The current one is overkill for the mini guns. I bought it to match the full-sized gun I bought to start with, which is overkill for guitars.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dang!!! It's always something!
The compressor lives. Drained the accumulator of what water was in there, tightened up a joint I could see a faint oily cloud coming from yesterday, tightened up all the other joints I could reach, topped up the oil (it wasn't low, but added just a bit to make-up for any losses), and adjusted the pressure cut-off switch so that it cut off again. Not 100% convinced it's making quite the same noises as before, (probably paranoia) but it's working again for now and shouldn't go bang.
Compressor and body update:
The compressor kept running because it was loosing compression, so it couldn't quite make it to the cut-off pressure without a lot of effort. The motor isn't rated for continuous operation (they are normally rated for a 50% duty cycle maximum) , so I monitored the pressure and turned it off manually when it was high enough. One run was normally more than enough air to spray a coat on a guitar.
But the pressure achieved was getting less and less and less, so there's a major issue with one or both compressor pistons. Seeing as a new replacement compressor unit for the compressor would be quite expensive, and it is oversized for my needs and pretty noisy, I decided to order a new Hyundai oil-free compressor via Amazon but direct from Hyundai with a receiver that's half the size of the current one (25l vs 50l) and is much quieter.
That was back on the 12th August. I'm still waiting for it to be sent out. Apparently the Hyundai shipping system software was updated and it lost orders in the process. I was one of those who suffered. I have sent several 'where is my compressor' messages, and they keep saying it's been dispatched and giving me a courier reference number, they've even phoned me to ask if I had it as they had two bits of info saying both it had been sent and I had it, and that it hadn't been sent.
But the tracking number still just tells me the courier hasn't got it yet. So I am not happy as good spraying days are dwindling and we have a spell of decent weather at the moment. I've sent a final message saying I want it now and that they are still showing lots in stock and I could have it on Friday if I ordered today on Amazon. So where's my effing unit then?
The bass body keeps suffering from small bubbles and pits in the paint. I've been retouching bits with a paintbrush and have just about got those defects filled and the paint level, but I also keep sanding through on a couple of edges. So I really need to put a couple of coats on top of the manually applied cover-up, but I can't do it until the new compressor arrives.
Frustration in abundance.
At least the neck is 99% complete, frets levelled and finish all polished.
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Just the Hipshot string tree to add, and I can't do that until it's strung up to ensure the position is correct.
The Drop-D Xtender key looks a bit wonky, but that's because the plate it's on rotates and needs the string tension to keep the key upright.
Having worked on compressor maintenance for a few years, compressors can be a real pain if you don't understand a few precautions that you can take to make life easier and cheaper. Duty cycle in a compressor can be either the description of the compressor capacity or the motor. Duty cycles in reference to the motor of 50% means it runs for the same amount of time as it is off but when talking of the compressor capacity you can have 100% duty cycle and the motor only runs once as the reservoir has enough reserve to enable you to perform what ever you are doing in just one fill. Having halved your reservoir capacity can lead you increasing your motor duty cycle. I hope when you decided on the new compressor capacity you took into account the CFM, cubic feet per minute, required by your spray gun as that dictates what compressors CFM capacity minimum should be. If you get that wrong then you can expect to replace the unit quicker. The pressure that is delivered still has to be taken into consideration but when spraying you normally don't run at 100 PSI and is performed at what is considered low pressure. To help reduce running time for the compressor make sure all joins are sealed with some type of sealer. The less time spent tightening joins means more time using the unit so if you can reduce the number of fittings you have to loosen each time you use the unit the better. You should be able to get by with only loosening the fitting that goes into the gun for cleaning. The fittings are generally either a sealing thread or mating face type. Mating faces are either 2 faces that are the same angle, as in compression, or a tapered face with a round mating face. Both of these types you use a sealer. Don't ever use a sealer that hardens as any movement can break the seal and compressors can generate vibration that can make a hardening sealer useless. I always use a clay based product, I use Hawkins that comes in a green can, and you only need a smear over the full face as it takes up any irregularities in the mating faces and doesn't harden. Don't go crazy with it as too much is never good. Never use Teflon tape on compression fitting threads as the threads don't seal, the mating faces do. If the faces don't seal using tape on the threads wont help. If the fittings are tapered thread type then you use Teflon tape as it takes up the space between the 2 threads. Tapered fitting are known as self sealing but I have never come across one that seals as there are always clearance on the mating parts. Never overtighten either types of join as that is worse than having them loose as you can damage the sealing faces and they will never seal without some sort of sealer and may even need to be replaced. If you use the unit with loose fittings for a length of time that can damage the seals so whenever you use the compressor make sure all the fittings are tight, never assume, and your unit will be virtually maintenance free for a longer period.
My current compressor was bought based on my full-sized spray gun, (which I gave up on after my first attempt and got a mini-gun instead) and I made sure there was a good margin between the gun cfm and the compressor cfm. So with the mini-gun rated at half the cfm of the big gun, the compressor hardly ran when I was spraying.
The new compressor has a smaller receiver but is the 2/3 the cfm. A better match for the mini gun but still with extra capacity. Plus I’m normally only spraying for 2-3 minutes max at a time, with at least 15-30 minutes in-between sprays.
By cancelling the first order of the compressor and ordering again, the new compressor arrived yesterday (in the specified two days), and works well. It's a lot smaller and a lot quieter (old compressor with 50l tank shown behind the new 24l tank unit). You can tell it's on, but it's more like a quiet diesel car idling than a small pneumatic drill at 20 metres.
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And as yesterday was a great spraying day, I applied yet another three coats to the body. It's looked rather like this for the past 3 months, so I'm really keen to get this finished!
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...924/VyKBhu.jpg
Tomorrow I'm going to lightly sand down the roughest parts of the paintwork (it was basically flat before spraying to start with) and then spray some clear coats on top. I normally wouldn't clear coat over a solid colour, but I've now used up the last of the Sonic Blue, so if I sand through on an edge again then I'll need to buy another another tin of paint. So as I've got lots of clear lacquer available, some extra protection for the blue it shall be!
Looking good Simon and the clear will also give some extra protection. If all you are using is a mini gun/touchup gun that tiny compressor is all ya realy need. I did pretty much the same thing because after moving from a 4 bedroom house with a big back yard, a nice workspace in the garage and under the house to a 2 bedroom villa with a neighbor sharing a wall (so no noise in the garage) and my work space being a tiny courtyard. The 24l is almost silent compared to my 100l 3hp monster, and I don't need a 15 amp socket for it! Still spray quite happily with the free air flow when the tank runs out.
Glad to see you're moving forward again. Good news on the compressor situation too.
Is that a Direct Drive? You & Rabbit got me rethinking my 2.5HP, 50L, 155LPM unit. I don't use any air tools and haven't used my big gun since I got my Star mini-gun...
Dood, unless you have noise issues or your compressor is about to cark it, there is no point in changing your current rig. The larger compressor will run at a lower duty cycle and last longer.. save the money and use it to finish your guitars :cool: .Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
Simon, that's looking great! Another reason I'm looking forward to eventually bulding my own shed will be to set up a proper spray rig so I can practise and hope to get quality like this.
I've got an old 25L that blows too much oil, and an older 50L that's buggered and will be getting turned into a forge. Oil free direct drive looks like the way to go for sure.
Thanks Rabbit. My compressor is still very new in the scheme of things (2 and a bit years). It certainly hasn't been used everyday in that time either. The air gun gets more use the spray gun! Noise is not an issue for me. I only work during the daytime and it's reasonably quiet for its size, and we've got pretty good neighbours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit
After your advice, I'm off the idea at this point, but I had a quick look around anyway and it doesn't appear Hyundai are available in AUS. I found one from Sydney Tools that is the same specs as Simon's (24L, 1 HP, 100 psi) but know nothing about the brand (Lincoln?). I thought it was pretty inexpensive though ($179). What brand is yours?
It's an Xcort. I thought it was 24l but it's 30l, 0.75hp/4.2cfm The psi rating isn't realy a thing to pay much attention to, the volume of air it can deliver when the tank has run out and the air flow is primarily from the pump. So long as that is higher than the amount of air your gun uses it's all good.Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
It's not quite that simple, as the motor will burn out if it needs to run constantly. If the compressor is sized against the airflow of the gun correctly, the tank shouldn't run out and the compressor should at most, run 50% of the time and be off 50% of the time. I have no idea what the maximum run period of the motor should be before it needs to turn off to cool down; that will change from motor to motor. But if the motor starts running and isn't cutting out after five minutes or so (and you can see from the gauge on the compressor if it's pushing the tank pressure up or not), then you are probably using more air than the compressor is designed to provide.
The higher the psi setting on the regulator nearest the gun, the more air you are getting through when you use the gun. So if the compressor is running constantly, try dropping the air pressure setting a bit (if it doesn't affect the spraying). You're getting through double the cfm at 60psi compared to 30 psi, or 50 psi compared to 25psi.
The good thing is that spraying a guitar body doesn't take long, so you are unlikely to damage the compressor motor with a 5 minute spray, even if the motor is running all the time. But if you use the compressor for spraying anything larger so it need to run for longer, or use it for air tools that use a lot of air and you are doing say a big sanding job, then keep an eye on the motor run time and take breaks to give the motor a rest if it looks like it's running for too long.
Lightly sanded down today without any sand-throughs. A bit cooler than expected, so waiting to see what tomorrow brings before spraying some protective clear coats.
Yeah, that a bad cut & paste by me. Meant to include LPM, free air delivery. Thanks again.Quote:
The psi rating isn't realy a thing to pay much attention to...
@ Simon - Yay! no sand-throughs!!! (I hate it when those happen)
I'm not sure that deciding to clear coat over the blue was such a good idea. I have no idea where it came from, and I was using my 'clear only' spray gun, but a few seconds after I started spraying the clear, a streak of dark brown got spat out from the gun. A flake of something must have fallen in the container in the box I keep them in. Which was very annoying. So I stopped, , tried to wipe it off (stupid), which only mixed it up with the blue on the body. So I left it for an hour and sanded back and it looked OK (if not 100% perfect).
But in sanding I had left a dark mark on another bit of the body, so when I came to spray the clear again, I realised I was coating over this mark. So I left it, tried sanding back, but it left a spot of a very slightly different colour. I had a tiny bit of blue left in my mixing jar, so brushed that on. But that didn't help as all the lighter, whiter, pigment in the paint had settled to the bottom, despite being shaken, and the blue was now lighter and very obvious.
So I managed to thin down the paint that remained in the bottom of original tin and add that to what was left in the mixing jar, and had just enough to spray a complete covering coat of this slightly lighter blue over the body and cover up my mistakes (it ran out as I was doing a final pass for luck). In fact, I've now ended up with just the tint of Sonic Blue I was after. But there's not enough thickness to sand again, but as the finish was flat before spraying, it's good enough to clear coat straight over. So I'll do that tomorrow after a thorough clean of the gun.
Bummer about the "brown streak" (that's usually an entirely different topic :o).
I appreciate your sharing when things don't necessarily go to plan or a mistake is made. It just shows that no matter how long we may have been doing this or how much experience we have, the "stuff happens" principle applies to all of us!
Tomorrow's another day! Hopefully the next round of clear goes well.
There's an old story that goes around for pilots that says "when something goes wrong, the first thing you should do is check your watch". It is apparently meant to encourage a pilot to take a moment to think before they act.
Of course, I still do the same thing and often end up wiping or touching a run or an imperfection even though I know I shouldn't. Maybe I should wear a watch? That would be a novel idea.
After seeing some of your other builds I nature you'll nail this one as well. Looking forward to seeing it.
After many years of spray painting experience I have now put in place some precautions that remove most problems in cleanliness of equipment. In the past I have had problems with gun and line due to exterior contaminants. After my last problem I now have a procedure that I follow religiously. I always clean the gun and store in a plastic zip bag which I put into a sealed plastic bucket for ease of storage and clean before I use said gun and check for any defects. I use rubber plugs that seal my line as I had a bug get in either my gun or line and blocked the spray gun and I store my line in a sealed plastic bucket just to keep everything clean as I don't want to contaminate my surface with dirt/dust falling off my line. It maybe excessive but since following this ritual I have had no problems that needed the surface to be sanded back and started again. If you are going to put so much effort into using a spray booth then spending a little bit more time in all aspects of your equipment and environment will pay off in the long run. Try also locating the compressor in an area where it doesn't need to be moved to enable you to use it as it will reduce introducing leaks. I have my unit under a table and a line runs to a place near where I use it so I never have to set it up each time I use it but mine is probably 5 times what I need but I got mine for about $100 as I made it from parts I either was given or bought.
In industry air compressors should cycle no more than 4 times an hour so it will be only running for about 7-8 minutes and idle for about the same time but that is for 9 to 13 hour run times. I have maintained units that ran 24/7 as they were so larger it would take almost an hour to fill the tank from empty. To help with cycle times always make sure all lines and compressor connections are free of leaks and are kept as short as possible. If used in short stints of less than an hour once or twice a week products of the day are quite capable of these running conditions even if the compressor is running continuously though not ideal as your flow may not be consistent. I have worked on motors that run 24/7 for 3 years and only needed bearings replaced and were good to go again. Always drain your tank and water filter after each use as there will be time, like during winter, when the unit wont be used for an extended time and if there is water sitting for that long then it could damage the unit.
If cycle times are too high then you will need a bigger unit plain and simple as its capacity is not adequate or the unit is faulty. You could change some pressures but that will only get you so far and unless you have the skills to replace the compressor or tank then a new unit is in your future. I would always buy maybe 50-100%, aiming for closer to 100%, larger than needed as I want due to your circumstances may change in the future. Budget is always a sticking point but so is buying the wrong size to begin with. Replacing the spray gun with a unit that requires lower compressor capabilities could also be an alternative. Once you buy the compressor you can check it by hooking up the gun and spraying air to simulate your conditions and maybe try some changes in pressures or even gun technique. Even if it cycles every 2-4 minutes for an hour, in short spray times it should be fine.
Yes, I certainly need to up my game at keeping things clean, and you've got some good tips there Dickybee.
So; on to how my clear spraying went today.
Don't ask. Another bottle of Sonic Blue is on its way to me. 'nuff said.
Oh dang! The joys and reality of trying to achieve excellence. I saw an interesting arrival about how we underestimate the impact of luck in success... We think success is all due to skill and planning.l, but a significant factor is luck.
Sometimes Lady Luck is out getting her hair done... It would have been nice if she let you know first .
I have tried to get away from spray and have gone to brush/wipe on poly. I still have a SG guitar and bass I am waiting to finish but seeing as the weather has been too cool and I haven't been able to get paint due to lock down they will have to wait.
Where I spray I have a patio that I hang my guitars on and spray away from my house as my wife doesn't have a sense of humour.
Everything was fine until the sun got to my guitar one day and blistered the paint. Sanded back and resprayed and I hung a blanket up so the guitar was in the shade. First few times all was good. Then one day the wind came up and the blanket touched the guitar and gave it a unique texture that required sanding. Fixed that problem by putting a rope across to stop it swinging only then to have the guitar fall onto the concrete and snap the horn off a Strat. I now put a rubber mat that is used to stand on as it is quite soft under all of them so if it happens again I only have to repair paint damage.
Have now gone into using poly as it can be used when the weather is cooler, is cheaper, doesn't need all the equipment and by using water base I am allowed to hang them in the spare room as there is little or no smell.
We do this as it relaxes us?
I spray outside in my toilet tent on the patio. the compressor stays inside the garage to cut down on noise (less of a problem now) and keep any overspray out of the intakes. But my problem this time was small airborne specs getting blown on to the body (the spray gun must be generating some static which helps attract particles). It was a breezy day, windier than I'd have liked, and I had lifted the body up (hung down from a eye screwed into the end strap hole) so I could spray the inside of the horns and end of the neck pocket end more easily, puling it out of the tent's protection to do so.
Waited for the clear to dry before sanding the specks off, but with nitro, the solvent softens the paint underneath and the specs had sunk in enough that to remove them, I'd also ended up sanding through the top paint layer, which had ended up lighter than the coats beneath. So I now had an obvious dark patch which needed fixing. I tried using some thinners to get a bit of the blue from the bottom of the jar onto a brush, which worked; but the blue was the darker blue, so I ended up with an even more obvious patch.
So, more sonic blue paint ordered, of which several coats will need to be applied and I probably won't bother with any clear now.
Well, on the upside, there should be plenty of coats of colour down to prevent sand-through to the timber.Quote:
So, more sonic blue paint ordered, of which several coats will need to be applied and I probably won't bother with any clear now.
I too have had some issues finishing the LP neck I recently posted about in another thread.
There were a few tiny gaps between the binding and timber on the face of the headstock, which I thought would in-fill with enough coats of poly... I was wrong. Then, in my attempt to fill them with CA, I only made things worse. So sanded back to bare timber; re-stained; and have started re-spraying the poly.
Good plan, right???
Well for some reason I'm getting some weird pock marks in the satin poly! It's not orange peel (which I have never had with poly anyway). Not sure what's going on. I've played with the pressure, air flow, fluid flow etc. The gun is clean as a whistle, the batch of poly is brand new. Good news is he last coat of the day seemed ok, but I will need to level sand before doing more coats tomorrow.
The upside for my situation is it should come up better than my first application would have. (providing tomorrow's session goes smoothly :D)
The finish was already nice and flat, so any sanding required will be minimal. And it will have one extra coat of clear sandwiched between the layers of blue.
Yes, strange things happen with no known explanation when spraying. Bubbling, pinholes that won't fill, marks appearing from nowhere after you've made sure the body is clean...
One word. Aliens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Barden
Possibly Gremlins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit
And I was wearing my fully foil-lined spraying outfit as well, including the foil cap!
Well there's your problem! Single layer shielding stopped being effective some time ago. You need to use metallic paint. The overlapping layers of aluminium flake deflect the mind control rays and scatter the widget fandoogle sargogs <headnoiddle>.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Barden
Hold on a minute, I'm being probed again....