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I haven't done a finish with spray paint, but I have heard good things about Behlen products, which are nitrocellulose based and can be bought here.
There is a lot of love for Wudtone here (I'm going to finish my ST-1 in Wudtone), but for certain looks, you need to spray.
I'd be really, really interested to hear a side by side comparison of the exact same kit, one with spray paint, one with Wudtone. No upgrades, no tweaks.
Adam, DB, do either of you have the guitars hanging on the wall do do such a thing?
Phloggy, this is a debate that has been going for decades...Quote:
Quote from phloggy on May 28, 2013, 07:42
I'd be really, really interested to hear a side by side comparison of the exact same kit
Walrus and phloggy, my ST-1 is finished in clear spray lacquer, and I'm pretty happy with both the look and the sound from stock components.
I know, but it seems like a pretty good opportunity to gather some evidence one way or another. I'm currently of the opinion that the finish of the guitar would have an almost insignificant impact on tone, at least compared to everything else that's going on in an electric guitar.Quote:
Quote from Walrus on May 28, 2013, 07:48
Phloggy, this is a debate that has been going for decades...Quote:
Quote from phloggy on May 28, 2013, 07:42
I'd be really, really interested to hear a side by side comparison of the exact same kit
I have no evidence to support this though, other than "gut feel", and the fact that guys like Eric Johnson, who can apparently tell the difference in the batteries that are in his effect pedals, use painted guitars. But perhaps the paint is a component of the tone he's looking for?
I'd love to be shown some actual evidence one way or the other, though.
My next project will probably be done in Wudtone, but that's because it looks great and is easier to apply than spraypaint rather than any tonal qualities that it may possess.
My Guitardis (a TL-1) is also finished with spraypaint and poly clear coat, then polished with a car wax that contains silicone. It's got a colourless Wudtone neck finish. I think it sounds better than any "proper" tele I've played in a shop.Quote:
Quote from dvous on May 28, 2013, 08:37
Walrus and phloggy, my ST-1 is finished in clear spray lacquer, and I'm pretty happy with both the look and the sound from stock components.
My 2c worth....
Put 14 plastic bags over your head and sing.....vs. wiping your face with some suitable oils and then sing and compare which sounds better!
I'm planning to use a combination of automotive spray paint (2 pack) & wudtone.
Carl
Paints, polyurethanes and nitro finishes are all solvent based.
When you apply them to timber they bond the fibres together and lock them, thus they cease to have the ability to resonate to their full extent.
It is actually the outer layers of the timber that give the instrument it's tonal quality, (this is most evident in acoustic instruments where the top is only 2-4 mm thick).
Contrary to popular thought, electric instruments do rely on the same outer layers of the timber to give them their tone. This is why us Luthiers are fanatical about the types of timber we use, we look for tap tone (rap the timber with a knuckle and listen for a clear bell like sound, if we hear a dull thud that piece of timber becomes fire wood!)
Treat this piece of timber with synthetic finishes and try the tap tone test again. You get a more solid thud rather than a ring.
I have tried this on identical chunks of tree (cut from the same board) and I could tell the difference when blind folded!
Before I discovered Wudtone I used to French Polish or wax finish all my builds because these finishes did not dull the tap tone.
Must admit restricting myself to two types of finish restricted me colour wise but now I can have tone and colour!
I am slowly making my way back through some of the earlier posts (by gods there’s a lot).
Please note: I will not be offended if you all skip straight over this extremely verbose piece of drivel.
Not wishing to stick my nose in, being a Newbie, but I have a fair amount of comparative data on this “issue”.
Since the late 80’s I have stripped and re-finished a fair number of instruments, both in light stains and natural finishes (clear coats only). Following a happy accident with a Vantage P-bass, which went from being a sonically ordinary instrument to having a nice, subtle, “woody” tone.
What I can tell you is this; on every occasion, taking into account projects that re-used the same hardware and electrics, the sound was always different. Not however always better; on one occasion a 70’s Suzuki LP copy became quite “dead”, losing any brightness it had while gloss black.
That having been said I have continued to strip back most of my own instruments, particularly basses, usually refinishing them with clear coats only. I have even done this when it means exposing ply edges or similarly unpleasant articles in the timber (I actually like the Frankenstein look).
One of my friends tried some experiments with finish comparisons, even going as far as using 3 identically shaped bodies that had the most similar harmonic resonance when raw. Certainly the harmonic resonance changed on the completed guitars, but the difference in sound (he said) was minute. Interestingly he is also from the shape-makes-no-difference camp – but that’s a whole ‘nother prickly one!
One thing I must say is that the electric I still use most is a Peavey Raptor (Stratocaster SSS alignment), which has a solid enamel finish. It sounds like every other good quality classic Strat type guitar, plain and recognizable – which is what fits with most modern music. Although my most used Acoustic, certainly more than the Raptor , is an 80’s (Bill May) Maton from the Natural series – which is next to raw and a brilliant sounding instrument.
In the mid 90’s I worked for a short while designing and building hi-end acoustic cabinets. It is an accepted engineering constant in that field that construction style, size and finish all heavily influence the result - so I can’t see how guitars should be any different.
Regarding spray cans; my experience is that a good painter, with excellent technique, will get a good result. Provided that a lot of care is taken between coats and you do not use really cheap paint then most people will get a reasonable outcome.
A good trick with spray cans is to warm them,run under hot water & shake. This gives a finer atomization making it easier to get a smooth finish.
Carl