Need help with choice of guitar

I could use some advice regarding my choice of guitars. I like metal/heavy rock guitar sounds and also want to start learning jazz seriously.

I currently have a Gibson Les Paul Classic 60s reissue. I love this guitar, and the 500T bridge pick up sounds great with the heavier stuff.

I'd like to get a nice hollow body jazz guitar but don't have the sort of cash that one usually spends on a "nice" jazz guitar. I'm wondering if it would make more sense to go for a cheap knock off or an Ibanez Artcore guitar, or get my hands dirty with an ES-3 or GR-1SF kit.

I've also entertained the notion of having a back up guitar that could be pressed into service if I break a string on either guitar mid-gig. That would mean a solid body electric (I'm thinking a blinged out PBG-2) with a Gibson 500T in the bridge position and a neck pick up to match the archtop I end up with.

I have no idea what makes a nice archtop neck pick up. Any recommendations? Would I be nuts to think the same pick up would get me in the same ball park sound-wise on an archtop and a solid body?

...and does anyone know the going rate on a relatively healthy kidney? I may have to sell one to fund all this.

Well, the Gibson jazz boxes generally either had/have P90s or PAF style humbuckers. The hollow body style with the F-holes gives a shorter sustain to the note - the idea being that fast runs sounded more distinct with less sustain - so you'll never get quite the same sound from a solid body guitar designed to sustain well.

But don't forget that the Les Paul was originally designed as a jazz guitar (and the Tele to a lesser extent with its original wiring circuit with a really rolled-off tone position via the 3-way switch) and a few jazzers have played one (though it never really took off as a major jazz guitar). One option would therefore be to swap the ceramic neck pickup on the LP Classic out for a nice PAF-style pickup (there's a reason the Seymour Duncan 'Jazz' neck humbucker is called that). Those Gibson ceramic pups are fine for driven rock but don't do clean very well. I swapped them out on my LP for a set of Bare Knuckle mules after a few years and don't regret it at all.

Some of those Ibanez Artcores are pretty decent guitars. I'd avoid the bottom ifthe range jobs, but mid- and upper-range Ibanezes are normally very good. I have a friend - another metal and jazz player - who has one as his jazz guitar (though I forget which one). Some of the Epiphone versions of Gibson jazz boxes are pretty good as well, though the pickups can often be on the hot side for real jazz. Hollow bodied guitars take longer to make, and as time is money, they cost more as a result. You can tell this by the fact that the hollow-bodied PBG kits are nearly twice as expensive as most of the solid bodied kits.

One other option is to go for a 335-style guitar, which is capable of covering both the rock and jazz camps. Again, a clean, low powered neck humbucker, with something hotter in the bridge. Swapping to flatwounds will give you more of a jazz sound (and these will be almost mandatory on a jazz box).

Of course if you want a full-blown jazz box, then please get one ( I certainly wouldn't stop you), but you might be surprised at how much of that jazz sound is the strings, the technique, the amp and the right value tone capacitor.

Hey Andy, you can always look to an Epiphone Casino or a Dot, I have had a Casino for years and it does well for dirty old rock and roll as well as cleaning up nicely for jazz sounds. If you want to specialise it for Jazz, then throw on some flat wounds and knock back the tone. They are really versatile.
The ibbys are great as well, I’ve played a couple and they have a good feel to them but as Simon says, you need to aim mid range model or top end.
eastman are also nice, but that is another step up in cost although they are lovely guitars.

It's always best to buy a guitar you've played if possible. What's the choice like in the music stores in Brisbane?

Take a look at Gretsch too. The Korean instruments are very nice.

Thanks for the feed back guys. I'm happy to leave the LP as a rock pig for now. If I end up finding the pick ups too hot I believe there are options to tame them (volume on the guitar, possibly even lowering the pick up?). I fully intend on having the hollow body dedicated for jazz playing. I guess I'm just looking to justify kit gas in building a back up guitar that could sub in for either. The semi hollow path does seem like the most sensible option here, but I'm having a hard time looking past the PBG-2. It keeps calling to me and begging me to buy it. It won't let up.

I could have sworn you lot would be terribly biased and recommend a Pit Bull kit for the hollow body over the other options, so I'm surprised no one has. I know it would be quicker and easier to buy a completed one, but in terms of bang for your buck, would you get a better quality guitar buying a mid-range complete guitar or getting a cheap kit and giving it a heap of upgrades?

I would definitely put flat wound strings on the archtop. As for the sub guitar, I'm not so sure. I guess its possible to dial up a decent/usable jazz tone with regular strings, but flat wounds would just about kill the rock/metal sound. This is all based on assumption though. Has anyone actually attempted to use the wrong strings for the job and successfully compensated with the rest of their gear?

Should I be worried about feedback with a PAF style neck pick up? I've heard they're all unpotted.

Oh and Simon, I'm spoiled for choice in Brisbane. The thing is I trust you lot more than I trust a music sales man and would like to have a good idea of what I'm after before I step in the store.

I didn't realise you wanted a kit. The ES-5 is a jazzer. Sounds nice acoustically too.

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Originally Posted by Dedman

I didn't realise you wanted a kit. The ES-5 is a jazzer. Sounds nice acoustically too.

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I would consider a kit if it was the best option for a budget conscious buyer. I'm still not sure how a blinged-out kit would measure up against a mid-priced store-bought complete guitar.

Ironically I my first kit will be an ES-5V (still on the way). Although I should clarify it will not be used for its intended purpose. I'll be butchering it into a microtonal 5 string instrument for use with Middle Eastern music and the odd bit of blues slide guitar. But that's another story ;)

For my actual "jazz" archtop, I'd like one with a cut away.