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Hi all
I've done the back of my ash tele with ebony timbermate, basically to work on the technique before I start on the front.
Just to set expectations - what grit sandpaper should I use and how much effort should I be putting in (ie can you give me a sense of exertion level or amount of time or indicators that I've removed enough).
Otherwise I assume that it is pretty self-evident - ie sand consistently until the only timbermate remaining is in the grain.
Thanks in anticipation
Yup. Timbermate sands easily, so you won't need to put much effort in. (I think) I use 240 grit. Make sure to use a block (ideally quite a big one) so that your surface is nice and flat. You may well find the surface is uneven, and machining marks become visible during the process. Just keep sanding till they're gone. I usually end up doing more than one application - the first one goes onto just get the surface even and flat, then the next one is much easier, just to fill the pores/grain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Bravo
I found with my ash tele that the end grain on the sides went all "muddy" with the timbermate. I ended up putting a coat of clear lacquer on first, then the timbermate, and that gave a much better result. That's just my experience though, based off on ash guitar.
There are YT videos that cover the process, but I don't have any specific links. Just thought I point it out as a resource.
However, a few things I can tell you are:
1) Don't try and use it straight out of the container. It is water based and it needs to be thinned with a just a tiny bit of water (in a separate container). You want it thinned to a consistency of gyprock joint compound (another analogy is toothpaste, I don't like that description). Basically not too thick, and not too soupy.
2) When you spread it over the timber, use an applicator like a plastic 75mm putty knife or even an old credit card, and spread it across the grain.
3) Don't try to do it all in one go. It will take at least 3 applications (especially with ash). You might get away with 2, but I reckon 3 minimum. Also, if you put it on too thick, it takes forever to sand back. That stuff is HARDER than the wood when it's dry.
4) Start sanding with P120 paper (aluminium oxide/non-clog) but just use that to get the initial bulk off the "top", then switch to P240.
If you go too long with the 120, it becomes counter-productive because the larger aggregate (courser) on the paper can get into the grain lines and scrub out the filler you just put in!
FWIW, doing a good, thorough job takes time so expect it to be a 30 minute one-and-done job. It can actually be a PITA, but totally worth the effort.
A couple differences in experience and opinion, but some similar points as well.
Not saying I'm right and Jon is wrong. Just different takes that's all!
Jon:
Me:Quote:
Timbermate sands easily, so you won't need to put much effort in.
Quote:
Also, if you put it on too thick, it takes forever to sand back. That stuff is HARDER than the wood when it's dry.
I will add this though:Quote:
FWIW, doing a good, thorough job takes time so expect it to be a 30 minute one-and-done job. It can actually be a PITA, but totally worth the effort.
I have not done that, however I would suggest it would be fine if you're going to be applying lacquer again as a top (clear) coat.Quote:
I ended up putting a coat of clear lacquer on first, then the timbermate, and that gave a much better result.
If you plan to use polyurethane, I would avoid having lacquer underneath it, even if it's going to be sanded. If using poly, and you really want to seal the timber before the Timbermate, I would use shellac. Otherwise there is potential for finish incompatibility IMO.
I do agree with using a sanding block (on the flat areas). I forgot to include that in my previous post.
If you want a nice flat glossy finish, then make sure that the body has been sanded flat before applying the grain filler. I don’t mean smooth, I mean flat. You’ll almost certainly find that the body has high and low spots on it. It’s a lot easier to stick sandpaper to a large flat board (not just a hand sanding pad) and get the surface flat now, than by applying lots and lots of finish and sanding that flat. You can of course have a glossy shiny wavy surface, but a really smooth flat surface is far more professional looking.
You can spray a fine dry mist coat of a colour that will show up on the wood as a marker before sanding. You don’t need a lot, so don’t spray as you would to apply a finish. Keep the spray distant as you only want it sitting on the surface, not soaking in. The paint will come off quickly in the high spots and be left in the lows until the surface is flat. You’ll sand all if it off, so it won’t affect any finish going on later.
As has been said, the pores and grain lines in ash are deep, so several applications of grain filler will be needed.
Aw pal, thanks for this - you've already answered several questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonwhitear
I thought I'd done a fairly good job of prepping with some 240 grit but when I went to sand off the timbermate I hit a few high spots and some odd machine marks.
So, I'm going to give it a fearsome sand until those imperfections are out and then do a second coat and see how I go.
What I've learned - when I do the front, once I reckon I've sanded enough, then I'll go back and do it again! :)
What I should say is that I'm really enjoying how the process is bringing out the grain. And I will make lots of mistakes, I know and this is all part of the learning curve. If I can finish this one in a passable form, then I can have more confidence in the next one.
Thanks, McCreed
I've taken on board all of your suggestions and thoughts. Makes sense.
At this stage I'm going to go back, give everything another really good sanding and then have another go - you've kinda given my licence to do what I was wanting to do (ie several lighter, runnier applications). That approach resonates with me and I have no problem with having to do the process several times. Sandpaper is cheap and elbow grease is plentiful.
Cheers