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fender3x
16-05-2018, 10:45 AM
I recently acquired a Gibson-style set neck body. Sort of like the one in an ESB-4 kit. I want to put a fender jazz style neck on it. I know that people have been putting Fender necks on t-birds at least since John Entwistle did it in the early 1970s.

Has anyone here ever modded a body that was designed for a set neck to accept a bolt on? If there is a build diary somewhere or a link to a page about how to do it, I'd be grateful for the guidance. I have a few ideas about how to do it, but it would be nice to see how someone actually has done it!

Thanks in advance!

pablopepper
16-05-2018, 10:49 AM
Scale length will probably be out of whack. If you can deal with moving the bridge, you might be able to swing it. It might look a bit off though. You'll have to build up the neck pocket to get the right height too.

FrankenWashie
16-05-2018, 11:13 AM
You’d need to figure out if the G body has been built for a neck angle, then compensate for that to suit the flat deck F neck.

either way you’d need to fill the tenon slot, and incorporate the required deck height for the Fneck into your plug, to present the fingerboard at the right height and angle for the bridge.
photos?

wazkelly
16-05-2018, 08:48 PM
Being a fairly thin bodied semi hollow it will probably require a bit of packing in the neck pocket floor. If double bound (top & bottom) the lower binding may end up looking a bit strange around where new neck heel arrangement has been done. Solid colours can hide these sorts of things to some degree.

Simon Barden
16-05-2018, 10:06 PM
Would you still plan to screw the neck in place, or would you plan on gluing it, or even both?

fender3x
18-05-2018, 01:20 AM
Thanks for the quick responses!

I haven't purchased the neck yet. I am thinking about a Kmise jazz neck since I have had good luck with other Kmise products... I can send a pic or two of the body. Still in the thinking phase. I really love the weight of my ESB-4, but am not sure I love the neck...which is the genesis of this project. Plus the body was inexpensively available w/o hardware or neck.

The scale length of should be 34" for either way. Eye-balling it next to my frankenfender it looks like it should fit OK length wise, but I won't know until I get a neck and can really do some measurements. This body is drilled for a three point bridge, but I won't know if it's placed properly until I take some measurements with a neck.

No question that I will need to fill the tenon slot. Not sure about the neck angle. I'll need to do some experimenting with the bridge to figure that out.

It is double bound, but the lower binding is a flat, straight piece that passes under the neck pocket. That said, wood used to fill may still look a bit odd... Of course I'd like to use a clear finish, but we'll see how it goes. I think I have found just about every way there is to botch a clear finish on my previous project ;-)

At the moment I am thinking that I will try to make a plug to fit in the neck tenon to be glued in place. Once it is in and solid, I would plan to bolt on the Fender neck, but using screw bushings/washers rather than a neck plate because there is a bit of arch on the bottom that would make it difficult to fit a conventional plate. I am not completely opposed to gluing in the fender neck, but I'd rather not if I can make the joint strong enough. What do you think?

Also, I would love any advice you folks have about how to make the plug to fill the neck pocket. Any thoughts on how to make a router template for the plug? I am thinking that if I have a decent template I can cut and laminate pieces of maple to get to the right height.

That's what I am thinking at the moment. Would welcome additional advice! So far I have not been able to find a link to anyone who has every done this. I see lots of Fenderbirds which should be similar, but nothing resembling a build diary to look at.

FrankenWashie
18-05-2018, 05:36 AM
I have used overlaid masking tape to create a pattern for shaping wooden cover plates. You lay it over the void, run a fingernail or a skewer around the edges to mark them and then remove and trim to those marked edges. Lay that over your plug blank and cut to rough size, then test fit and sand to final size.

fender3x
18-05-2018, 06:15 AM
Thats a great idea! thanks!

dave.king1
18-05-2018, 06:43 AM
I have used overlaid masking tape to create a pattern for shaping wooden cover plates. You lay it over the void, run a fingernail or a skewer around the edges to mark them and then remove and trim to those marked edges. Lay that over your plug blank and cut to rough size, then test fit and sand to final size.

That's how we used to make gaskets back in the day, and still do on occasion

FrankenWashie
18-05-2018, 07:43 AM
That's how we used to make gaskets back in the day, and still do on occasion

My older workshop tech still uses that method for odd size pump flange gaskets. Lay the sheet over the flange and gentle taps with the ball end of a ball peen hammer.

Sonic Mountain
18-05-2018, 07:46 AM
Same, that's how I was shown to do it as a mechanics apprentice back when dinosaurs still roamed.

fender3x
19-05-2018, 02:00 AM
There is a slight slope in the pocket of about 1 degree. Seems to rise about a mm per inch. Ordered a neck...

fender3x
03-06-2018, 03:21 AM
I got a jazz style fender neck, and I have the body. Still thinking through how to get the neck onto the body.

Initially, I thought I would make a block go glue into the neck pocket, and then bolt the fender neck to that. An oversimplification, but basically the idea. I have generally had bolt on necks and like them fine, so felt no great need to have a glue in. But now I am wondering...

To get the neck to line up with where the bridge should be, I'll need to do a little routing to the body. Not much, just about 5-6mm. Also the pocket is about 2mm narrower than the neck heel. So it looks doable from that standpoint. On the other hand... the neck pocket is only 79mm long. Maybe Add the rout and say 85 mm. a normal fender pocket is closer to 95 mm. I am guessing that the 1 cm difference is not all that important to having a stable platform for the neck, but wanted to find out what folks here think.

I am also wonder if it might be easier to modify the neck to be glued in, rather than modifying the body to have the neck bolted on?

For both, I will need to cut and shape a block that will fill most of the neck pocket so that the neck will be at the right height. I'll need to do a little routing at the bridge side of the neck pocket to get the neck to fit regardless of the approach. And I will need to sand each side of the neck down about 1mm so that it fits.

By the time I have done that, I will need to have decided whether makes better sense to glue the block to the neck, and then glue in the neck+block assembly to the body. OR I could glue the block into the body, then bolt the neck to that. Because of the curves in the body.

In my searches of the web, I see a lot more references to doing something like the latter than the former.

I don't really care that much whether it is ultimately a set neck or a bolt on. I like the idea of a bolt on because you can change the neck if you like, but I have actually never had to do that, so maybe it doesn't matter much. I am mostly interested in what folks think is going to be the simplest and most effective way of getting this done?

Simon Barden
03-06-2018, 05:25 AM
It's easy enough to glue more wood onto the neck so that it will fit into the pocket - it is after all what you'll get on any set neck PBG kit. But both methods should work. Bolt-on gives you more chance to adjust the neck angle via shims after the initial assembly, though it's not difficult to check the neck angle and get that right before gluing either. A glued-on neck could be given the smoother heel profile where the neck joins, if that end of the fretboard interests you.

If gluing, remember that on the RC4 basses there's only about 50mm of contact area on the bottom of the neck, and less than that on the sides, and they stay on OK. So 79mm (or 85mm), plus the same amount of side area should be plenty. It's really all about making sure that the scale length is OK for the bridge position (if that's all pre-drilled).

wazkelly
03-06-2018, 10:15 AM
Simon is spot on in that scale length should determine what happens in and around the neck pocket.

If wanting to keep options open gluing large shim to base of neck heel is one way to go. Personally i tend to think building up floor of neck pocket would provide a better base for 2 similar thicknesses being bolted together rather than one section less than 10 mm thick.

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fender3x
03-06-2018, 10:46 AM
Good to know that either way will work. I may just need to shape the piece that will attach either to the body or to the neck, and see what looks like it makes the best sense when I get there. The joint on my ESB-4 is definitely smoother than the ones on my bolt-ons, but it protrudes out about a half fret farther. I may have to experiment a bit to see what looks and feels right.

The body is drilled for a three point bridge, and it seems to be in the right place, so I am going to try to use it with the string through option. If I can get the neck in right, great. If not and I have to move the bridge, that's OK too.

The cap on the top is nice looking but has some flaws up around the horns and a dent or two. I'd love to use a clear finish with it, but am reconciled that it may not work. If it ends up with a solid color top, I may change things around a bit.

I'd like to get it pretty much assembled and playing right before putting pickups in. That's partly because I have no idea what to put in it. My natural proclivity, if i buy now, would be to find something cheap that fits and will do the job. I'll be inclined to spring for a bit more if it plays great, though...what to put in I am not sure.

It's routed for standard humbuckers. Looks basically the same as in the ESB-4, but with both pickups about 2cm closer to the neck. That puts the bridge pickup about where a p-bass pickup would be, and the neck pickup about where a mudbucker would be. I have not really found much for bass in that size. Hard to find any pickup of that size that will accommodate 52mm+ string spacing. So I am thinking I may need to do a little routing.... So again, how much I am willing to do, may relate to how well I can get it to play ;-)

Simon Barden
03-06-2018, 03:58 PM
When I was looking around for humbucker sized bass pickups, there wasn't a lot of choice (unless you went down the custom pickup route) apart from the Duesenberg bass buckers https://www.rockinger.com/index.php/en/More-Bass-Pickups-Bass-Pickups/l-WG105 and some active pickups. But active pickups need a battery compartment somewhere, and messing about with finding somewhere suitable for that, plus the extra wiring involved to make it work and still have to pre-wire everything to fit it all through the F-holes makes for a lot of extra work.

fender3x
04-06-2018, 10:33 AM
That's what I am finding. Duesenbergs. Old (discontinued yet expensive) Dimarzio X2N-B's. Active EMGs. As you said, not a lot to choose from.

I am not putting anything active in this beast, for all the reasons you said, plus I just don't like leaving a battery in a musical instrument.

Well, I guess I'd better get this right. If it's not going to be cheap it had better be good ;-)

Simon Barden
04-06-2018, 04:15 PM
Or you use something a bit smaller and make your own pickup surround for it. Or a soapbar style, widen the pockets if necessary, and again, add a surround to cover the side gaps.

fender3x
05-06-2018, 12:09 AM
My least favorite part of my previous ESB-4 build was making the pickup surrounds. Endless sanding... But if I have to.... The problem with the small pickups is similar to that of the large ones. They are hard to find for string spacing wider than 50mm. I *think* I am going to use the three-point bridge I which would give 52-54. If I used a bridge with F spacing that's more like 57mm. Some bar style humbuckers are that wide, but most are not. So soapbars with some sort of custom surround are looking more and more like where this is going... Unless, of course, it plays like a dream, and I think I can get custom pups past my wife/accountant ;-)

Simon Barden
05-06-2018, 12:44 AM
You know you're worth it.

fender3x
05-06-2018, 01:50 AM
Ha! I just have to keep the wife convinced of that ;-)

wazkelly
05-06-2018, 05:40 AM
Just wondering if a wider bridge spacing leaves enough clearance along edge of fret board?

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king casey
05-06-2018, 05:59 AM
You know you're worth it.

You're gonna smear some L'Oreal face cream on it?

cheers, Mark.

fender3x
05-06-2018, 10:25 AM
It should. I used a bridge with F string spacing on my ESB-4 and clearance is not a problem. This would use a little narrower spacing with a Fender neck, that is 2mm wider where it attaches than the standard ESB-4 neck, and I am planning to use a bridge with slightly narrower spacing.

fender3x
05-06-2018, 10:26 AM
You're gonna smear some L'Oreal face cream on it?

I am willing to try anything.

fender3x
02-07-2018, 03:59 AM
I got a Kmise jazz-style neck on eBay, and as I was sanding it down I noticed something odd... At the t side of the of the "rosewood" fingerboard it is a couple of mm higher than the b side. The neck appears straight. It seems to have a consistent radius and does not appear to be twisted. The plastic nut it came with is high at the b side and low at the t side...so it looks like the fretboard is consistently a little high on the t side.

I can't return it after starting to sand it. And I also don't see how this will harm playability. I plan to replace the nut and can compensate for the higher t-side by adjusting the nut and bridge.

So it seems useable unless I am missing something?

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fender3x
14-09-2018, 02:51 AM
No one commented on whether I'd have problems with the odd fingerboard on this project. I have not been making a lot of progress, except in thinking about it...but felt like it was time for an update.

I am hoping that the fingerboard issue won't be a problem, but it is officially in the "we'll see" category. It has definitively made me think that I will do a bolt-on rather than glue on. That way if there's a problem I can put on a new one. Might as well try it though. I have had the neck long enough and done enough sanding on it that there's no returning it now...

I have determined that I will need to re-drill the holes for the bridge because they are off a bit. Also the neck angle is off and will need some TBD adjustment...thinking about this I noticed something else...

...As mentioned earlier the pickup routs are about 2 cm farther from the bridge than they would be on a Pitbull ESB-4. I realized that if the neck pocket were routed about 1" closer to the bridge, that the neck pickup rout would be right about where a P-bass pickup would be scale-wise. That rout would also give the neck a platform closer to what it would have on a Fender, which just seems intuitively more solid to me.

Unless someone talks me off the ledge, I have decided to do this. I have been thinking hard about filling the existing pickup routs and re-routing for different pickups. That seems like a lot of work. Meanwhile, about the time I realized that this mod would put the bridge rout in P-bass territory, someone on Ebay put up a NOS Bill Lawrence EB-50 pickup, that looks like it will fit in the rout. "Kismit!" I shouted, and purchased it. It arrives tomorrow.

I think I have the bridge geometry worked out so that won't be a problem (he said blithely). The one "problem" I do see is that the neck will join the body at about the 16th fret, instead of the 18th like it does on the ESB-4. It definitely will not have access to the upper frets that a p or a j bass would have. That said, I almost never use frets above 15 or 16, and it's actually rare for me to go over the 12th. So who cares? Plus, I think it will help with neck-dive, which is not a huge problem with my ESB-4, but this has a bigger headstock...

Routing to move the neck will put the neck a bit into the pocket where the neck humbucker would have gone... So... One option would be to have just one pickup, the BL EB-50, in the p-bass position, and be done with it. I am sort of leaning to this option at the moment.

Another option would be to put some sort of single coil sized pickup right where the neck ends. There is just enough room for this. Not enough room for a humbucker, but it's right where a mudbucker would be. I could fit a lipstick tube in there... or a strat sized rail pickup (perhaps another Bill Lawrence?) or a straight p-bass single coil...

Curious what you folks think!

Dedman
14-09-2018, 07:38 AM
rather than fill the rout, why not order a kit with no routing?

Simon Barden
14-09-2018, 03:28 PM
I am yet to get up the courage to try and rout out the pickup pockets on my ESB-4. The arched top and bottom surfaces on the body make it really hard to come up with a simple routing solution.

fender3x
15-09-2018, 04:44 AM
rather than fill the rout, why not order a kit with no routing?To my knowledge no kits combine jazz profile neck with a semi-hollow body. I don't think any PB kits have a j-bass neck profile--not even the j-bass kits.

I did talk to Adam about a semi hollow body, but before I heard from him I found this one fairly cheap. Cheap was important since, as Simon notes, routing a curved surface with a thin veneer is not for the faint of heart.

The Bill Lawrence arrived and fits the existing route. A slight mod of the neck pocket seems quite a bit easier to me than routing for a pup on a curved surface. Filling also seems easier than routing--*IF* I even need to...



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fender3x
16-09-2018, 04:03 AM
Here's how it looks when I put the neck and bridge where they should be relative to the pickup in ~p-bass position...

28072

The bridge moves around 2cm closer to the strap button, and the neck moves about the same...

blinddrew
16-09-2018, 05:21 AM
I reckon that could look quite nice, proportionally speaking...

wazkelly
16-09-2018, 05:57 AM
Here's how it looks when I put the neck and bridge where they should be relative to the pickup in ~p-bass position...

28072

The bridge moves around 2cm closer to the strap button, and the neck moves about the same...

Wondering why you wouldn't grab another one of those PUP's and push the neck a bit further forward, somewhere nearer where it might have been originally?

fender3x
17-09-2018, 02:09 AM
Wondering why you wouldn't grab another one of those PUP's and push the neck a bit further forward, somewhere nearer where it might have been originally?Well, I haven't ruled that out yet. At the moment though, I have only located one of these pups. It was NOS, and I don't think either of the Bill Lawrence companies make them anymore...but we'll see if I can find one. If I can find a Gibson G3, like on the old Grabber basses, that might be good. Also designed by Bill Lawrence. But so far I am not sure what to do with that rout...if anything at all.

I will probably do some testing... I noticed that a mini humbucker I had lying around would also fit. The longer I stew about this the more I feel like firing up the old testbed....

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fender3x
17-09-2018, 02:15 AM
Thanks for the vote of confidence! It's starting to feel like it could e a bass someday ;-)

fender3x
17-09-2018, 02:30 AM
So after I logged off, having just replied to Waz... I went and took another look at the bass. The "rosewood" fingerboard is 90%+ of what overhangs the neck pickup rout... So I actually could have a humbucker in there if I sliced off the overhang...and the scale would still put the mid-pup in the p-bass location.

So I did another search, and found another one of these EB50 pickups had just been listed on eBay, from the same seller, in fact. So...I bought that one too. Hope it sounds good... Will probably have to trim some pup rings for the neck position, but it will definitely fit.

fender3x
27-09-2018, 09:32 AM
I have spent an immense amount of time thinking about to figure out how to deal with the neck joint. I was having a really hard time figuring out what angle the neck needed to be. In part this is because the bottom of the neck pocket is not flat, but rather slopes down as it goes toward the heel. Since this is an archtop body, I need it to clear the pickups without making the bridge rise too high. That is complicated by the fact that the bridge will be around 2 cm closer to the strap-button than it would normally be, so a bit further down the arch.

I have been using different block sizes and different angles, and I think I finally got them close to righttoday... the simplest solution seems to be to put a flat piece of wood in the bottom of the pocket that will raise the bottom about 5/8" (16mm). It will then need ashim to raise the heel end by about 1.2 degrees... I tried it with scrap I have around, and that should be pretty close.

So now my question is about wood. First, what should I use for the block to raise the bottom? I had thought about maple. I am not sure whether I care about matching color, but the maple I have is a little darker than the back and sides so, it may not matter. Maple is super dense and heavy, but man is it a pain to work. On the last build I sanded down some pickup rings to fit the archtop that were made of maple...and I thought I would grow old and die doing it.

I also have some pine, that is much lighter and easier to work, but I wonder if it's strong enough? I know it's sometimes used in guitars, but it's also used in Tae Kwon Do because it's easy to break...

Or I could go to my old favorite, poplar. I can get it cheap, and it's strong and easy to work, and it seems like a good compromise wood...particularly if it gets painted.

The other question is about the shims. I found some at the home depot that are cedar. They are just the right angle, amazingly and were relatively cheap. It seems to me for a thin shim cedar should be fine. I know it's sometimes used for acoustic guitar tops, but it's even lighter than the pine. Still, the angle is just right, and I don't think I need to glue it in since it will sit on top of the block...

Curious what folks think?

fender3x
01-10-2018, 06:32 AM
28336

Realized I was never going to be able to reach the 20th fret...and to get the mid pup to line up correctly losing a bit of the end of the fretboard would help...so...no more 20th fret. This is how it lines up now...

28337

fender3x
01-10-2018, 06:54 AM
I also answered made the plug for the neck pocket to raise it up...and in the process had a bit of a fortuitous accident.

I found some poplar came 3/4" x 2.5" strips...so I bought a foot of it, and went to work. I sanded the sides to fit the pocket and used my very crappy bench saw to trim about 1/8" off the height. What I did not realize when I started the cut was that the blade on the bench saw was slightly off 90 degrees, so the piece was a 16th of an inch too high on one side...

Remember how on this cheap Kmise neck the fingerboard is higher on the treble side than the bass side? A little careful sanding, and the "plug" now compensates for the difference in the sides of the fingerboard. I am not sure I could have done this on purpose, but voila! I knew I would need to compensate for the fingerboard, but figured I'd do it with by adjusting the bridge up a bit on one side. I was not sure whether this is something that you'd be able to see, but the lateral problem is now taken care of. The only other problem related to this that I see at the moment is that the nut slot is, effectively, deeper on the treble side than the bass side. I have been cutting a nut to compensate out of bone... More on that once it's ready...

I still needed to adjust the neck angle in the conventional way, and do do that I glued a 1.5 degree angle shim to the top of the plug. Actually two shims side by side as one was not wide enough. The glue is drying at the moment...

28338

Will post more as it goes into place... but there will be much thinking about how to get the rest of the pocket cut. I decided that to get the mid pickup in the right place it would be easier to do some additional routing to the neck pocket than to fill and re-rout the pickup cavities. Whether that was good thinking or not depends a lot on figuring out how to rout the neck pocket on an archtop!

fender3x
18-10-2018, 02:03 AM
I made some progress today. I used a router "box" template that I made from some 1/4" plywood and some scraps of 1/2" or 5/8" wood. First I made an inch thick block that was about 6" long and almost as wide as the neck pocket. I screwed it to the block that I laminated into the neck pocket.

The block created a relatively stable 6"x2" platform that I could clamp the box template to. (A box template like this works best with a router that has a circular bass. The outside edges of the box serve as the guide for the router. I have found these work well if what you need is a rectangular shape).

I did a little testing and was surprised how stable this was with just a couple of clamps to hold it into place. My router is pretty heavy and with 2HP has a ton of torque. The template was actually quite rigid however, and held nicely. Since the template was secured to a block which was screwed to the floor of the neck pocket the rout replicated the slope of the neck pocket exactly.

Some version of a this kind of box template may be very useful to others who need to cut a neck pocket or pickup cavity on a curved surface like an ES or LP top.

28644

28645

I put in one of the pickup rings to see how everything would line up... Starting to take shape ;-)

28646

fender3x
18-10-2018, 02:14 AM
I took a pick of the F/G hybrid next to my completed ESB-4 for comparison...

28647

I lose about one fret access at the high end compared to the ESB-4. But the bridge (really mid) pickup lines up pretty much exactly with where a p-bass pickup would be. I'll need to fill the bridge holes and move the bridge back about 3/4". Got a bit more work to do on the neck pocket before that. Will need to add some laminate to the sides of the neck pocket. The neck fits tighly near the pickup, but is slightly tapered, so not quite as tightly at the heel. And will need to do something about how ugly the heel has become.

28648

I have an idea using some binding... but open to suggestions...

vh2580
18-10-2018, 05:07 AM
This is looking fantastic.
You could make a feature behind the neck on the block a piece of nice veneer or some shell particularly if you increase the depth of the block a touch to get an insert flush with the cavity edge.
Have covered some router marks I couldn't get rid of by covering with some Pau.

http://www.buildyourownguitar.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=4637&page=2

fender3x
18-10-2018, 10:08 AM
Oh man, that is a beautiful LP. Hadn't considered shell... I could do a lot worse than to follow your example!

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fender3x
29-10-2018, 09:37 AM
Little more progress today...and a question...

I drilled the holes for the screws and ferrules to mount the neck.

28818

The screws that came with the ferrules look about the right length at the neck side, but seem pretty sort at the bridge side. How deep into the neck should mounting screws go to be solid?

Since I had the my little drill press out, I also experimented with mounting the bridge, and string-through ferrules.

2881928820

This was quick and dirty...maybe too much so since I clearly got the ferrules out of alignment. Still the concept seems sound. I used the giant 1" long ferrules on the bottom. On the top I took Simon's suggestion and drilled out some guitar ferrules. I looked at a number of other options, including using guitar tuning peg ferrules. I think Gibson may have used these, but they were either really big or really fragile looking. I saw some broken ones in pics of Gibsons, and that ended debate for me.

I think this should work. I was not careful enough to get it lined up horizontally, but it is perfectly aligned vertically. It seems solid and everything mounts fine with my SAE drill bits. I did have to order a 14mm bit for the neck ferrules, but so far that's the only metric bit I've needed.

I got some tear-out on the pine that I used for my tests, which is very soft and tears much more easily than the guitar's veneer. Not ideal for tests, but I have tons of it due to kids in Tae Kwon Do. Every time they do a board breaking I end up with more scrap... Wonder if there's a way to make a guitar out of all these broken boards...Hmm....

fender3x
29-10-2018, 09:46 AM
On a side note, I got this odd tool a couple of years ago...

28821

It seemed like such a good idea... You squeeze it, and it works like a wrench. Sort of a wrench that works like pliers. The only problem with it is that the head is so large and and awkward that it never seems to fit into the space where I am working. Nevertheless, after several years, I have finally found a use for it:

28822

It turns out to be perfect for holding a string ferrule solidly so that I could drill it out.

wazkelly
29-10-2018, 10:28 AM
For the tear outs on the back maybe a smaller diameter pilot hole all the way through to begin with so that you can see where string core will end up. Draw a straight line and then run your drill in reverse to do the countersinking. After that you could drill down from above at the correct diameter and if at 90 degrees it should all line up.

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fender3x
29-10-2018, 11:03 AM
Thanks, Was. I did that but I think the bit was too large (3/16th") will try with something smaller.

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wazkelly
29-10-2018, 11:24 AM
Running drill in reverse when enlarging should avoid tear outs.

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fender3x
29-10-2018, 09:44 PM
That I did not do... I can definitely do that when I do the enlarging. On the pine I drilled through with a 3/16th bit and the tear-out happened with that rather than with the enlargement. I used 3/16th because that is the size of the string hole in both top and bottom ferrules. Seemed like a good idea at the time.

I have thought about drilling from bottom to top on the bass. Harder to line everything up, but easier to control tear-out on the bottom. I plan to finish the back natural and do a solid color on the top, so if there is a little flaw in the top I can repair it. That said lining everything up between bridge and top and bottom ferrules may really tax what little capacity I have for precision...

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Simon Barden
30-10-2018, 03:47 AM
You will see the top ones more than the bottom ones, so mark up and drill the pilot holes for those first - the end ones (E and G strings) all the way through, the A and D ones partway. Then draw a line between the two rear holes and measure off where the A and D string ferrules should sit. Then drill the pilot holes for those from the back partway through as well.

Drilling vertically is key here.

The holes should hopefully at least meet partway through in the middle, and the hole can be opened up a bit if necessary so you can fit a string through. This should leave you with two neat lines of ferrules (even if the rear line might be slightly off from the ideal line, it looks better if the ferrules are all in a neat line).

fender3x
30-10-2018, 09:08 AM
Sounds like a plan. Working up my nerve ;-)

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fender3x
01-11-2018, 04:50 AM
Put the neck on. Still needs a bit of work on the pocket, but overall seems to be working.

Notice my super scientific string method for testing alignment... Since I'll be re-drilling for the bridge, the trick was getting the neck to line up as best possible over the pup routs. The bridge is in ~the right position...and the next thing will be to drill there... Still working on nerve...2886728868

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fender3x
07-12-2018, 07:58 AM
Not a great pic, but it's beginning to look like a bass. I need to cut a nut and do a setup to see if I have the neck shimmed right. It's close but I won't be sure until I adjust the truss rod. Between the neck angle, the neck height, and the arch it has been a b***ch.

The center block is also super narrow. And the "south" bridge post broke through just as with my ES4-B kit. Making the center block 2cm wider would solve a lot of problems. I don't even think it would add much to the weight since toe wood is so light.

I glued a piece of wood in through the f-hole (just as I did with the other kit. I think it helped, but the main saving grace is making it string-through. That way the strings push down on the bridge rather than trying to pull it out.

Not set up. Not convinced I have the neck angle right. Temporary nut. No string tree and just an old set of ancient flatwounds I had lying around. But it played it's first notes tonight. 29319

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fender3x
15-03-2019, 10:22 AM
Been a long time since I posted progress. Slow progress is the only kind I have made. I have done the frets. I finished making a bone nut. Installed a string tree that held two strings...then one that holds three strings when the A kept popping out of the net.

Let me tell you that getting the three point bridge drilled and in place, and a mismatched neck at the right angle on an axe with a curved top and bottom is not for the faint of heard. Not all my drill holes are as vertical as they should be. Those curves make it difficult to know when you are drilling vertical. But somehow it is all working.

I need to do some work on the neck joint to clean up how it looks. I have an idea for doing it with binding material. We'll see how that works. I'll do a set up, and then it will be time to do the finish and the electronics. Whew!

fender3x
16-03-2019, 04:53 AM
...on second thought.... I tried to do a bit of a setup today to make sure everything aligned well. The more I tried to make adjustments to the three point bridge the more frustrated I became. One problem is that I did not get the post holes in 100% vertical, so when I adjust up or down it also moves laterally a bit. Also There is a big difference between where the neck side point goes and where the other two points go. To complicate matters further, the center block is so narrow that I already had to glue a little block to it to get the bridge to be more or less solid where it is.

Enough! I have a pretty good, super solid two point Korean bridge. I am going to give up on this *&#)@ three-point bridge. New plan is to drill to do major surgery. I am getting out the forstner bits to try to put a large wooden dowel (at least 1") in to seat the post holders. The top is getting a solid color anyway... As they say in AA half measures availed us nothing.

fender3x
17-03-2019, 08:25 AM
I put the new two point bridge in place and measured everything, and it looked like the "north" bridge post needs to go almost exactly where there was already a hole. Since it's a mm or two off center from where the current hole is, I plugged the hole with a dowel.

The place where the hole goes on the "south side" would have put it off the center block. You are all probably sick of me saying that the center blocks in these ES bodies are super narrow. If anything is a little off center you're cooked. And on this bass the bridge needed to move a little to the south.

So, I got out the forstner bit and drilled about 1 5/8 deep with a 1 3/8 bit into the front:

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I then plugged the hole with a piece of recycled closet rod.

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Here's a pic of the inside taken through the F-hole:

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In placing the original three point bridge, I had already broken out the side of the center block. I glued in a piece of wood in a vain attempt to hold the post threaded ferrule in place. It didn't work. When I would try to raise the south side of the bridge, it was just spinning the ferrule in the hole. I needed to get a big piece of wood in there to hold the ferrule solidly. I just could not find a way to do that through the f-hole. I was able to glue a piece of wood in place, but because of the arched top, it was not flush with the top (you can see that in the pic). It was, however, solidly bonded to the center post, so it is helping to hold the rod in place on the south side. you can see the glued piece at the top of the last pic.

Although this put a big hole in the top, it was actually the least intrusive way I could think of to extend the side of the center block far enough to accommodate the ferrule.

When it dries the next step will be to cut the rod as flush as possible and then sand down the rest of the way. After that I'll drill for the new bridge.

Simon Barden
17-03-2019, 07:43 PM
30290

worthlessfillertext

fender3x
02-05-2019, 09:33 AM
30991

Made a bit of progress... The neck joint was functional, but not very attractive. This is not perfect, but much better I think. Used binding material on the side of the neck pocket, and to make a cap for the "heel." I am hoping it will allow me to finish the back and sides natural...but we'll see. Finishing is not my best thing.

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Still a few holes to patch before I can put a solid color on the top. It's starting to look like a bass, and it's playable...actually feels pretty good...even in this shape.... So, maybe a few build notes are in order?

The string tree is a cheap-o that I got for $3.50 US after reading a not-so-hot review from Waz on a Hipshot. It turned out to be handy after I installed a standard Fender two-string tree, only to have the A string pop out of it's slot. The tuners, however are Hipshots, which I like a lot for their light weight. They have actually been keeping my unfinished build in tune.

The Sung-Il bridge is massive for a two-point tune-o-matic style bridge. I reviewed it on the aftermarket thread. I thought it was a bit bulky looking at first, but I am really coming to appreciate it. I keep tweaking the neck pocket to try to get it right, so the strings and neck keep coming on and off. With most Gibson style bridges this would be a pain in the lower back, because string tension is part of what holds the bridge in place. This Sung-Il bridge has set screws that hold it in place, so once the screws are set it is just rock solid in place. it's so solid that I decided it did not even need a tailpiece. So far it is working beautifully. I had never heard of Sung-Il, but it's totally bitchin' as we used to say in California ;-)

I got the idea for the heel-cap from my Fender Coronado II. This is an odd thinline hollowbody with a bolt-on neck that Fender made for a few years in the late-60's. It has a chrome heel-cap, which I could not replicate, but it gave me the idea to do it in binding material... It was also part of the inspiration for this build. I really wanted something like a Fender Coronado bass. And that is making me wonder what to call my build. ES is for "Electric Spanish" and Fender called their thinline by a Spanish name...Should I do something similar?

I don't know why Fender called it a "Coronado," which means "Crowned" in Spanish. It may be that it's named after Coronado California, an upscale resort town a couple of hours south of Fullerton. Best I have come up with so far is "Corneado." Sounds a bit like coronado, but it translates roughly to "impaled on the horn of a bull." It's what happens to distracted bullfighters. That would fit the "tilting at windmills" approach I have taken to this project. However, I am open to less grizzly suggestions ;-)

fender3x
09-05-2019, 09:51 AM
Got the holes plugged. Got a shot of it next to it's sibling. My ESB-4 has similar patching under the paint...31063

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